sheesh! I don't know how you could think I said anything about how to do a loop in that post..... But it was a pretty good description of how to setup idle up. I did a 200 foot loop last night with my Knight 50 without ever going into negative pitch. Nice and round, looked great. Sorry you crashed, and I understand you're funnin and not blaming us. It usually takes awhile to find what works for you in these moves. Keep at it, you'll get it!