thanks! . you'll be there in no time buddy. i'm still a noobie. the more you fly the more it makes sense. I did my very first FFF loop 2 days ago.[8D]. very kewl. and for the first time today i did a tic toc. it was sloppy but it i pulled it off. i always thought that tic toc's were done with collective...its actually done with cyclic with alittle collective. half back flip to 2-oclock then half front flip to 10'oclock with collective management. its truly an amazing site and experience when done.