Thank you Joe, I got it all straight now. I think, I'm sure, kinda sorta!! At least my head doesn't hurt now!! I don't use the chicken stick, I was taught the back snap years ago and all my engines except one will start that way AFTER they have been started once with A starter. Most the time during the summer they will back snap on the first start of the day. No reason for you to start back snapping them though, just thought I would bring it up. I'm the only one I see doing it but it looks cool and dazzles people. I do have spinners on all my engines too so no real danger but it sometimes freaks people out. Just something I do, my advanced instructor was an old pattern pilot and A YS man so it's how he did things and A lot of the time I do too. [8D]