Your reply certainly made me chuckle,HAhA. Old timers??? Well I'm 83 and started in RC way back in single channel rudder only. So gues I qualify as an old timer. I have of course built many kits as well as scratch built and designed several. Nowadays I love the ARF's partly because my patience is not what it once was and mainly for lack of workshop space. Anyhow as has been said there's a place for all of us in this hobby. I wonder how many out there would be satified with and stick to it if all we still had was single channel radios on 27 meg?