Thanks for that I will most certainly be complaining, I don't know if you ever view the cen forum itself, but I have just had my post locked for being a duplicate? I cannot see the logic in that as it was my one and only thread on there, I expect the thread itself too disappear shortly as looking through the entire cen forum there is not one post on there that is critical of cen's customer support, I notice that cen sometimes makes replies on here to some posts, perhaps I might eventually get one off them here, but I won't be holding my breath