As someone who started with C/L in the 60's and RC's in the early 70's ARF and RTF's are NOT KITSand ARENOTreally SCALE aircraft, how about seperating the forums to reflect this. Those whokit and scratch build; put the effort into a build really dodeserve seperate forums! Sorry guys, if you do not build it from plans, scratch& kit you can't call it yours and can't cal it a "kit"...