Design specifications
08-07-2003 | 02:17 PM
#1
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From: Wilmington, Delaware
Design specifications
I like to know if there is a source for all the design specifications for a plane. I'm trying to create a 4*60 in G2 Plane Creater and it asks for LOTS of specifications that must exist. Some of the specs are simple, such as wingspan, weight, but others, ie drag/thrust ratio's, I would think exist somewhere. Anyone know where I might be able to find these aerodynamic specs that I can preferable download ? Thanks
08-08-2003 | 12:29 AM
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From: Sun City,
FL
Design specifications
Hi Elevator,
I have no idea what you are trying to use to design an airplane
but guess it provides instructions which ask for much info.
That would suggest you need to know the purpose first, then size, weight and anticipated power.
Would believe knowing those items you could fulfill the needed
info for the "thing" in use.
If it is computor oriented do know that the computor can not
create anything unless you tell it to and what you desire.
Need help, just ask!
Hal [email protected]
I have no idea what you are trying to use to design an airplane
but guess it provides instructions which ask for much info.
That would suggest you need to know the purpose first, then size, weight and anticipated power.
Would believe knowing those items you could fulfill the needed
info for the "thing" in use.
If it is computor oriented do know that the computor can not
create anything unless you tell it to and what you desire.
Need help, just ask!
Hal [email protected]
08-08-2003 | 01:59 AM
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From: Wilmington, Delaware
Design specifications
Hal, Thanks for the reply, I hope you don't regret the answer 
In order for the G2 simulator to duplicate the flying characteristics of a plane you need to enter the planes dimensions and characteristics into the simulator so it knows how to apply the physics. There are many parameters. Here is an example of the required parameters and my first attempt at some of them for a SIG 4*60:
Main Wing
Span = 71” Dihedral =2 degrees Wing weight=3.15 lbs Wing cord=13.5 Washout= ?? Wing span = 25 in Wing Weight = Airfoil Type =NACA2414 incidence=2 degrees LE/LE Sweep back=??
Horizontal Tail
Wing Span=25” Wing Weight =.37 lbs Wing Cord=5.5 incidence=0 degrees Location forward=-32” location up=1.4” % of cord=45% deflection right/left=19%
Vertical Tail
Wing Span=7.5” Wing Weight =.24lbs Wing Cord=5.5 incidence=0 degrees Location forward=-33” location up=0” % of cord=46% deflection right/left=25%
Fuse attributes
Length=57” Height=7” Width=3.8 Location forward=14.5 Weight=3.97 Frontal area=21sqin Landing gear-Width-14.5 location forward/Up=4.5/-7.2
Engine Location
Right/Forward/Up=0/14.5/0 Thrust Right/Down=1.15/2 degrees
I was asking if there might be a more accurate method to collect these numbers other than my wobbly tape measure. I'm thinking perhaps the SIG kit plans would be a better place to start from, but I have the ARF wich does not come with bprints. My ideal state is that these already exist somewhere. I discuss with sig and they had very few they could provide. Any ideas?
In order for the G2 simulator to duplicate the flying characteristics of a plane you need to enter the planes dimensions and characteristics into the simulator so it knows how to apply the physics. There are many parameters. Here is an example of the required parameters and my first attempt at some of them for a SIG 4*60:
Main Wing
Span = 71” Dihedral =2 degrees Wing weight=3.15 lbs Wing cord=13.5 Washout= ?? Wing span = 25 in Wing Weight = Airfoil Type =NACA2414 incidence=2 degrees LE/LE Sweep back=??
Horizontal Tail
Wing Span=25” Wing Weight =.37 lbs Wing Cord=5.5 incidence=0 degrees Location forward=-32” location up=1.4” % of cord=45% deflection right/left=19%
Vertical Tail
Wing Span=7.5” Wing Weight =.24lbs Wing Cord=5.5 incidence=0 degrees Location forward=-33” location up=0” % of cord=46% deflection right/left=25%
Fuse attributes
Length=57” Height=7” Width=3.8 Location forward=14.5 Weight=3.97 Frontal area=21sqin Landing gear-Width-14.5 location forward/Up=4.5/-7.2
Engine Location
Right/Forward/Up=0/14.5/0 Thrust Right/Down=1.15/2 degrees
I was asking if there might be a more accurate method to collect these numbers other than my wobbly tape measure. I'm thinking perhaps the SIG kit plans would be a better place to start from, but I have the ARF wich does not come with bprints. My ideal state is that these already exist somewhere. I discuss with sig and they had very few they could provide. Any ideas?
08-09-2003 | 01:55 AM
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From: Sun City,
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Design specifications
Hi Elevator,
An observation> that is what you get for buying a ready built,
the builder gets to keep the plans, Ha!
I have no experiance with simulators but it is not hard to comprehend how they work I would think.
It seems this G2 will simulate the flight of ANY aircraft?
If so that raises questions.
Know that similiar designs have their own individualities, while
specifications may be almost identical their performance may vary
specifically. That is what seperates a winner from an also ran.
Secondly these are hand made craft, if a kit that too. There can
be differences in the way they were produced and/or assembled.
As for the simulator> the thing only knows what has been stored
in it by an operator. So, to be able to simulate the flight of a craft
or predict it's performance someone would have to fly and record
the performance of every craft in the simulator's inventory
If you would give a model design-engineer the specs the G2 asks for the guy should be able to predict whether it would fly and
even if well. But how well would only be known by flight evaluations. That is a test pilot's effort in full scale.
As I see it what the G2 MAY BE able to do is what is in the last
paragraph.
From a proposal a knowlegable engineer can predict as above.
To do that the specs would have to be close to correct but not
exact. Areas, airfoil styles, moment arms. balance etc. have some
latitude. Of course there is a "best" of each but usually a bit either side of best would not do much harm
What all this triade boils down to is to say from what I know now
the use of YOUR measurements would be perfectly OK.
Would be interesting to know what the G2 does with them.
Good luck, keep in touch and be good!
Hal [email protected]
An observation> that is what you get for buying a ready built,
the builder gets to keep the plans, Ha!
I have no experiance with simulators but it is not hard to comprehend how they work I would think.
It seems this G2 will simulate the flight of ANY aircraft?
If so that raises questions.
Know that similiar designs have their own individualities, while
specifications may be almost identical their performance may vary
specifically. That is what seperates a winner from an also ran.
Secondly these are hand made craft, if a kit that too. There can
be differences in the way they were produced and/or assembled.
As for the simulator> the thing only knows what has been stored
in it by an operator. So, to be able to simulate the flight of a craft
or predict it's performance someone would have to fly and record
the performance of every craft in the simulator's inventory
If you would give a model design-engineer the specs the G2 asks for the guy should be able to predict whether it would fly and
even if well. But how well would only be known by flight evaluations. That is a test pilot's effort in full scale.
As I see it what the G2 MAY BE able to do is what is in the last
paragraph.
From a proposal a knowlegable engineer can predict as above.
To do that the specs would have to be close to correct but not
exact. Areas, airfoil styles, moment arms. balance etc. have some
latitude. Of course there is a "best" of each but usually a bit either side of best would not do much harm
What all this triade boils down to is to say from what I know now
the use of YOUR measurements would be perfectly OK.
Would be interesting to know what the G2 does with them.
Good luck, keep in touch and be good!
Hal [email protected]
08-09-2003 | 02:24 AM
#5
Senior Member
Design specifications
ele, those numbers can be taken off the airplane..
What you will have problems with is determining where to measure from!
For instance the horizontal parameters:
"Horizontal Tail
Wing Span=25”
Wing Weight =.37 lbs
unless you remove this, how can you determine the weight?
Wing C(h)ord=5.5
incidence=0 degrees
relative to where?
Location forward=-32”
relative to where on the wing?fuselage?, and where on the horizontal?
location up=1.4”
up from the same unknown line for the wing?
% of c(h)ord=45%
deflection right/left=19% (should be degrees)
.
Fuse attributes
Length=57”
Height=7”
Width=3.8"
Location forward=14.5
location of what, measured from where?
Weight=3.97
less the weight of the tail surfaces?
Frontal area=21sqin
Landing gear-Width-14.5
location forward/Up=4.5/-7.2
forward and up from where?
.
Most likely, the thrust line is used for the "up" dimension, and the c.g. for the "location forward", but the only way to be sure is to measure the example plane, and then measure yours in the same manner.
Some simulators will also require the aerodynamic parameters, lift slope, drag coeffiecient, pitching moment, thrust coefficients, control surface coefficients..
You'll have to look at simlar planes in the simulator library to get a feel for what these parameters can be.
It's very tedious.
What you will have problems with is determining where to measure from!
For instance the horizontal parameters:
"Horizontal Tail
Wing Span=25”
Wing Weight =.37 lbs
unless you remove this, how can you determine the weight?
Wing C(h)ord=5.5
incidence=0 degrees
relative to where?
Location forward=-32”
relative to where on the wing?fuselage?, and where on the horizontal?
location up=1.4”
up from the same unknown line for the wing?
% of c(h)ord=45%
deflection right/left=19% (should be degrees)
.
Fuse attributes
Length=57”
Height=7”
Width=3.8"
Location forward=14.5
location of what, measured from where?
Weight=3.97
less the weight of the tail surfaces?
Frontal area=21sqin
Landing gear-Width-14.5
location forward/Up=4.5/-7.2
forward and up from where?
.
Most likely, the thrust line is used for the "up" dimension, and the c.g. for the "location forward", but the only way to be sure is to measure the example plane, and then measure yours in the same manner.
Some simulators will also require the aerodynamic parameters, lift slope, drag coeffiecient, pitching moment, thrust coefficients, control surface coefficients..
You'll have to look at simlar planes in the simulator library to get a feel for what these parameters can be.
It's very tedious.
08-09-2003 | 05:15 AM
#6
Design specifications
As Tall Paul is telling you it's all relative.
I'm thinking that there MUST be a manual for such a picky flight simulator. And I'm thinking that the manual is either missing or is particularly foggy about measuring such detailed particulars if you have these sort of questions.
If it's missing then try using something like google.com to search for flight simulator discussion forums. I've seen them out there in my 'net travels but never went into them. THEY will have your answers if there's more to the manual.
And if it's foggy about the details then this is all just a guess.
I'm thinking that there MUST be a manual for such a picky flight simulator. And I'm thinking that the manual is either missing or is particularly foggy about measuring such detailed particulars if you have these sort of questions.
If it's missing then try using something like google.com to search for flight simulator discussion forums. I've seen them out there in my 'net travels but never went into them. THEY will have your answers if there's more to the manual.
And if it's foggy about the details then this is all just a guess.
