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How often do you design/optimize airfoils?

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How often do you design/optimize airfoils?

Old 03-20-2011, 04:36 AM
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aerospaceresearch
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Default How often do you design/optimize airfoils?

Hi,

I found thisforum and would like to ask something more in general.
How often is aifoil optimization done by you guys, engnieeres and co? (e,g. with xfoil)
Is there a big need for it and if there is, for what kind of tasks? model planes, drones, planes?

I ask because if there is a big demand for it, I would consider to start a single sub-project for such cases on my www.aerospaceresearch.net/constellation, because computing power wouldn't be a problem, what was mentioned on a previous page.
And I would like to have a subproject where people can set up their parameter and it will be computed on Constellation and you will get back your result.
But therefore it should be more frequently used.

Best regards,

Andreas
Old 03-20-2011, 04:55 AM
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rmh
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Default RE: How often do you design/optimize airfoils?

from a purely practical standpoint - exact airfoil configurations are not important for the modeler.
But various groups of shapes are good info.
For those into really specific task stuf -like a military drone that loiters etc., good info is needed.
Offer the service - it may get quite a bit of interest
Old 03-20-2011, 10:07 AM
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Default RE: How often do you design/optimize airfoils?

Hi rmh,

I know that modelers are not that urged to have exact configuration because manufacturing the airfoil wouldn't be as exact as the computed result because of the manufacturing itself and because of small scales. but because the motor will let everything fly .
But there are modelers who want the best airfoils .
And I think about aerospace engineering students who have to design a rc plane, or drone or even a lightweight aircraft for grades. This will be the main client, but I'm not sure and asked about the model community.

For offering this service we need you! if there are some interested users in this foru, who want to helpand get some experience with BOINC project, youare really welcome!

Andreas
Old 03-20-2011, 04:33 PM
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Default RE: How often do you design/optimize airfoils?

A few of us would love to play with such an app. And the sailplane fliers that take designing seriously would be in the same boat. A few others with unique needs and wanting to get the maximum possible out of the wing would be interested as well. Would the numbers using it justify the effort needed to produce such an online app? I'd have to say that it would be highly unlikely. Those that did sign up and use it would be very appreciative but really there are so many suitable airfoils already in all manner of varying shapes that I don't see a massive audience ever making your server load down.

As the principles surrounding optimization intrest you I'd suggest a read through the following thread that discusses this sort of thing in terms and math that are WAY over my head.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1246998
Old 03-21-2011, 09:28 AM
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Default RE: How often do you design/optimize airfoils?

hi BMatthews,

I know that thread, that's my post http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=140

I'm just determine the client groups, so it won't be you rc enthusiasts, but also aerospace engineering students. Ihad been one of them and we also had to find the right airfoil design for our drone, but we took the first NACA we found suitable , because motorization is the main design point and we had no optimizer for the airfoil, so it couldn't been finished in time, so we skipped that.
Iknow that it will be just a small number, but I think it's doable with a reasonable amount of time, because xfoil is there, we can take it. And the optimizer itself could be as easy as possible like adding what you need, L/D coefficients, angle of attack and speeds and so on. Then the optimizer has to do that for example in this way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTe-AJsARZo
I think even Ican do such a particle swam. Such algos would also be possible http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWT9YrN4_2I but I don't even know how they work.
But nevertheless all of them change the contours of the airfoil, let it be calculated with xfoil and get back a target value and rate them.
I think that's work for one person for some hours in one month and then it will run.

The server site is ready, we could wrap up everything relatively fast. We just have to include a user dropbox for their works and a receivebox for the results, but that is in the works for another project.

But we need some persons to help! that's why I'm here.

Andreas
Old 03-21-2011, 11:13 AM
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Default RE: How often do you design/optimize airfoils?

Well, I don't know enough to do more than nod appreciatively at such techniques but I wish you luck with getting such a site up and running. And I'd be more than happy to try it out.

As I said already all that high fallutin' talk about particle swarms and other optimizing mapping techniques was far over my head. But not so far that I could not see the overall gist of how it works. I feel that it's got some serious value for a lot of applications provided the students or users know enough to put realistic requirements into the front end and don't try to make an airfoil that is suitable for everthing from STOL to supersonic in both air and water....

If and when you get such a site up and running I invite you to do an announcement to all for this group and I'd be happy to add the link to the Resources sticky when you say it's ready for the masses to use.
Old 03-30-2011, 10:23 AM
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Default RE: How often do you design/optimize airfoils?

Such an app would be great. I am a Master's student and I spent a lot of time in finding the right airfoil especially since we are designing airplanes that will not go a supersonic speeds. This will great to make studies on high lift/low speed airfoils.
Old 03-30-2011, 11:06 AM
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Default RE: How often do you design/optimize airfoils?

Hi jakevegas,

what programme do you use for it, xfoil too? Or did you programme something for your own?

And I know that finding the right airfoil is a long process! But it's worth it.

I think we could need a personwith experience like you, so that we could create such an app. Are you interested? The reward will be that you could let your analysis run on the dc cluster.
I think it's a win-win situation for everyone!

Andreas
Old 04-24-2011, 07:28 AM
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Default RE: How often do you design/optimize airfoils?

Hi Everyone,

if anyone of you is interested to see what we do, you can now join.
we went public on 12.04 and you can now donate idle cpu time in aerospace research.
just go to www.aerospaceresearch.net

Andreas
Old 04-24-2011, 06:27 PM
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Default RE: How often do you design/optimize airfoils?

I am trying one last time to send a picture of my 1st prototype? Charlie
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