Cross wind take offs and landings
04-13-2014, 11:24 AM
#26
04-13-2014, 02:51 PM
#30
I don't think I am missing anything, according to his profile he has a year under his belt and is a beginner pilot, so I believe he may be overstating his 15-20% in the first place because personally, in the all the years I have flown hundreds of different models; I have never flown one that I could not keep above stall speed in a dive.
Bob
Bob
04-13-2014, 08:01 PM
#33
Senior Member
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I'll start out by saying that learning to takeoff and land in a crosswind is not mandatory but optional. Were I fly the wind direction is constantly changing due to thermal activity. You can takeoff in a head wind and land in a cross wind, so in my situation it became mandatory to learn the procedures necessary to accomplish this task. It is all about trial and error and practice. One last thought is to include a cross wind runway when you layout your miniature airdrome and become proficient in the application of rudder.
04-23-2014, 02:38 PM
#34
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When I fly my discus launch glider I don't always have the height luxury to land into the wind, but I do have to fly the plane directly at myself to catch it and sometimes I'm not always comming in from downwind so it's a crosswind approach to a catch.
The key is during the turn to forget where the plane is pointing and line it up with an object on the horizon behind it. If after the turn it drifts to the left or right of that object then the plane isn't flying directly towards you, it's either going to end up on your upwind side or downwind side and by lining it up with a reference you can pick the drift immediately and correct it from a long way out. You can do the same vertically to check if you are going to fall short or overshoot yourself.
I do a similiar thing on a normal landing approach in a powered plane. Our pilot's area is within about 5m of the edge of the strip and I perform the final turn until the plane is no longer moving left or right relative to the background. It's at that point I know the plane is flying directly towards me (or away if I'm really drunk?) regardless of where the nose is pointing then I hold the turn a fraction more until it's drifting out a fraction and I'm fairly sure it's then flying parallel to the strip. Google Earth reckons there's only a 5deg variation between flying at me and flying down the strip from the exit of the final turn. From there you just fly on in for a landing with minor corrections.
Flying RC is a funny game of angles and once you get a fair idea of how misaligned something needs to look from your perspective (or have a cheat or two) so it'll drop down into the right spot, then it becomes easier.
The key is during the turn to forget where the plane is pointing and line it up with an object on the horizon behind it. If after the turn it drifts to the left or right of that object then the plane isn't flying directly towards you, it's either going to end up on your upwind side or downwind side and by lining it up with a reference you can pick the drift immediately and correct it from a long way out. You can do the same vertically to check if you are going to fall short or overshoot yourself.
I do a similiar thing on a normal landing approach in a powered plane. Our pilot's area is within about 5m of the edge of the strip and I perform the final turn until the plane is no longer moving left or right relative to the background. It's at that point I know the plane is flying directly towards me (or away if I'm really drunk?) regardless of where the nose is pointing then I hold the turn a fraction more until it's drifting out a fraction and I'm fairly sure it's then flying parallel to the strip. Google Earth reckons there's only a 5deg variation between flying at me and flying down the strip from the exit of the final turn. From there you just fly on in for a landing with minor corrections.
Flying RC is a funny game of angles and once you get a fair idea of how misaligned something needs to look from your perspective (or have a cheat or two) so it'll drop down into the right spot, then it becomes easier.
04-23-2014, 10:47 PM
#35
Thread Starter
Bjr 93
You do exactly as an ILS works, it specifies an invisible (electronic) "path" in the air, both lateral and vertical, from which all diversions are presented in the cockpit by indications.
Also any other pilot who flies VFR (by visual reference) gets himself in right front of a runway at a certain altitude, and visually marks his glidepath from there on, mostly by gauging the angle at which he sees the runway. And corrects his path accordingly. Speed is kept throughout, it is all a case of energy management, sometimes You only lower or pull up the nose a bit, sometimes reduce/increase power, sometimes a mix of both. BTW here the Asiana crew in SFO f&*^&d up big time.
You do the same (I mean the approach, not the crash) although from another vantage point. When You have Your discus glider in front of You, You kinda mark its position through some imaginary "cross hairs" and fly it along those reference marks back to Your hand.
Indeed it is all about practice as stated before many times.
Bob (sensei), btw the correct wording is a (landing) flare, not flair.
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_flare
You do exactly as an ILS works, it specifies an invisible (electronic) "path" in the air, both lateral and vertical, from which all diversions are presented in the cockpit by indications.
Also any other pilot who flies VFR (by visual reference) gets himself in right front of a runway at a certain altitude, and visually marks his glidepath from there on, mostly by gauging the angle at which he sees the runway. And corrects his path accordingly. Speed is kept throughout, it is all a case of energy management, sometimes You only lower or pull up the nose a bit, sometimes reduce/increase power, sometimes a mix of both. BTW here the Asiana crew in SFO f&*^&d up big time.
You do the same (I mean the approach, not the crash) although from another vantage point. When You have Your discus glider in front of You, You kinda mark its position through some imaginary "cross hairs" and fly it along those reference marks back to Your hand.
Indeed it is all about practice as stated before many times.
Bob (sensei), btw the correct wording is a (landing) flare, not flair.
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_flare
04-23-2014, 11:56 PM
#36
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Thanks Richard, I'd suspect a lot of RC flyers do this subconsciously but as a conscious action it's a very quick and accurate check if working that weak thermal as you drift downwind is getting you out of trouble or further into it without relying on some "gut feeling". It also has a few carryovers into powered flight as well.
Most of my landings have a combination of both flair and flare in various ratios :-)
Most of my landings have a combination of both flair and flare in various ratios :-)
04-24-2014, 12:30 AM
#37
Thread Starter
Bjr,
At least with discus launch model flying You do a lot of "landings" and the guys I see doing it mostly know how to milk the last gramme of lift from their models to drop in their hand with no energy left.
I do a lot of glider towing, have had days close to 100 landings and that with high powered and heavy tugs. At the end of the day concentration is getting less, but with a forgiving model and lots of hours flying experience, no risk is involved.
A lot of model pilots just don't practice enough and keep on making controlled crashes iso a good landing. Touch & goes? Naah, buzzing up and down the field ("bathtub flying") screaming at full throttle is more impressive to others so that is what they do. They're controlling an engine, not flying a wing.
If You train landings enough, it does not make Your heart beat any faster as a normal turn does.
At least with discus launch model flying You do a lot of "landings" and the guys I see doing it mostly know how to milk the last gramme of lift from their models to drop in their hand with no energy left.
I do a lot of glider towing, have had days close to 100 landings and that with high powered and heavy tugs. At the end of the day concentration is getting less, but with a forgiving model and lots of hours flying experience, no risk is involved.
A lot of model pilots just don't practice enough and keep on making controlled crashes iso a good landing. Touch & goes? Naah, buzzing up and down the field ("bathtub flying") screaming at full throttle is more impressive to others so that is what they do. They're controlling an engine, not flying a wing.
If You train landings enough, it does not make Your heart beat any faster as a normal turn does.
04-24-2014, 04:12 AM
#38
Bjr 93
You do exactly as an ILS works, it specifies an invisible (electronic) "path" in the air, both lateral and vertical, from which all diversions are presented in the cockpit by indications.
Also any other pilot who flies VFR (by visual reference) gets himself in right front of a runway at a certain altitude, and visually marks his glidepath from there on, mostly by gauging the angle at which he sees the runway. And corrects his path accordingly. Speed is kept throughout, it is all a case of energy management, sometimes You only lower or pull up the nose a bit, sometimes reduce/increase power, sometimes a mix of both. BTW here the Asiana crew in SFO f&*^&d up big time.
You do the same (I mean the approach, not the crash) although from another vantage point. When You have Your discus glider in front of You, You kinda mark its position through some imaginary "cross hairs" and fly it along those reference marks back to Your hand.
Indeed it is all about practice as stated before many times.
Bob (sensei), btw the correct wording is a (landing) flare, not flair.
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_flare
You do exactly as an ILS works, it specifies an invisible (electronic) "path" in the air, both lateral and vertical, from which all diversions are presented in the cockpit by indications.
Also any other pilot who flies VFR (by visual reference) gets himself in right front of a runway at a certain altitude, and visually marks his glidepath from there on, mostly by gauging the angle at which he sees the runway. And corrects his path accordingly. Speed is kept throughout, it is all a case of energy management, sometimes You only lower or pull up the nose a bit, sometimes reduce/increase power, sometimes a mix of both. BTW here the Asiana crew in SFO f&*^&d up big time.
You do the same (I mean the approach, not the crash) although from another vantage point. When You have Your discus glider in front of You, You kinda mark its position through some imaginary "cross hairs" and fly it along those reference marks back to Your hand.
Indeed it is all about practice as stated before many times.
Bob (sensei), btw the correct wording is a (landing) flare, not flair.
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_flare
Oh (Richard), you master of the skies, yes it is true, my bad, and BTW, as is your statement "gets himself in right front of a runway" instead of right in front of a runway, oh and BTW, the correct spelling for meaning of glidepath is glide path, or glide-path meaning this,
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.b2U&cad=rjaBob
04-24-2014, 04:40 AM
#39
Thread Starter
Bob,
Haaa, expected that one
Right also, English is not my mother's language, You can read that from the choice of my wording, and sometimes expressions, construction of sentences that i am not a native speaker/writer, but I try my best. Indeed words like glide-path, Take-off, Take off, Takeoff, crosswind, cross wind? are difficult for me as my Dutch language combines many words into one, even to the extent of getting bizarre.
Anyhow, not too bad I guess, considering that apart from my Dutch language, I can write/speak comparably in German, and to a lesser extent Spanish and French....
Yep, living in a small country You need to speak other languages otherwise You ain't gonna get very far....
Haaa, expected that one
Right also, English is not my mother's language, You can read that from the choice of my wording, and sometimes expressions, construction of sentences that i am not a native speaker/writer, but I try my best. Indeed words like glide-path, Take-off, Take off, Takeoff, crosswind, cross wind? are difficult for me as my Dutch language combines many words into one, even to the extent of getting bizarre.
Anyhow, not too bad I guess, considering that apart from my Dutch language, I can write/speak comparably in German, and to a lesser extent Spanish and French....
Yep, living in a small country You need to speak other languages otherwise You ain't gonna get very far....
04-24-2014, 08:31 AM
#40
Bob,
Right also, English is not my mother's language, You can read that from the choice of my wording, and sometimes expressions, construction of sentences that i am not a native speaker/writer, but I try my best. Indeed words like glide-path, Take-off, Take off, Takeoff, crosswind, cross wind? are difficult for me as my Dutch language combines many words into one, even to the extent of getting bizarre.
Right also, English is not my mother's language, You can read that from the choice of my wording, and sometimes expressions, construction of sentences that i am not a native speaker/writer, but I try my best. Indeed words like glide-path, Take-off, Take off, Takeoff, crosswind, cross wind? are difficult for me as my Dutch language combines many words into one, even to the extent of getting bizarre.
Your English is great. We have many single-language Americans here who don't do as well as you. And, as for take-off, take off, and takeoff, it's my opinion that the language experts simply haven't caught up with the actual users of these type expressions. So who is right when talking crosswinds (cross-winds, cross winds), the pilot up front or the language expert sitting back in row 36?
Dick (also Richard)
04-24-2014, 08:41 AM
#41
My Feedback: (6)
FWIW a Google search turns up 655,000 hits for "glidepath" and 510,000 hits for "glide path" and "glide-path" combined (Google ignores hyphens). So it seems that the one-word version has a slight lead in actual usage. Whether compound nouns are written as two words, two words with a hyphen in between, or one word is a matter of style, and is constantly changing. There is no such thing as "wrong" in this area.
And, FWIW, the FAA seems to prefer "glidepath" and "glideslope." See AIM 2-1-2 and p. 13-7 of the "Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge." Oddly, though, both of these sources use the two-word version in the index.
And, FWIW, the FAA seems to prefer "glidepath" and "glideslope." See AIM 2-1-2 and p. 13-7 of the "Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge." Oddly, though, both of these sources use the two-word version in the index.
Last edited by Top_Gunn; 04-24-2014 at 10:53 AM. Reason: Add reference to FAA stuff
05-31-2014, 11:49 AM
#43
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How about this one.......
http://www.focus.de/panorama/videos/...d_3717919.html
http://www.focus.de/panorama/videos/...d_3717919.html
06-02-2014, 08:37 AM
#44
Thread Starter
Gary
I guess the company involved has asked (threatened) the publisher to remove the vid. I can't find it neither any more. Although once published on the internet it will stay forever, I'll keep my eyes open.
I guess the company involved has asked (threatened) the publisher to remove the vid. I can't find it neither any more. Although once published on the internet it will stay forever, I'll keep my eyes open.
