Pilots need to know aerodynamics for one main reason, they ask questions on it in the Basic Aeronautical Knowledge exam.
I did my theory and training nearly 15 years ago now and I know that at the time it was interesting at the very least, but has been mostly useless ever since. Pilots need to have an understanding of aerodynamics, but unless you are a pilot testing aircraft under development or being modified, then you simply dont need to know much about it at all. Weight and balance, wing loading and low speed limitations are all related to aerodynamics but are really subjects in their own right. When you are taught to fly , you are taught that the aircraft will respond a certain way at a given speed, weight and angle of attack (and configeration, like gear and flaps up or down etc,) Now Of Course WHY it responds like that is purely aerodynamics, but we dont really need to know that. We just need to know that it does, and will again next time.

If nothing else having a bit of Aerodynamics knowledge helps out when your passengers ask "how do the wings make the airplane fly?"
It would be a shame if all you could do is shrug ; )

Take a simple case:

If I know how the CG affects my plane I am much more able to spot when my plane is not performing as it should. You can fly the plane, but it would fly a lot better if you only knew what was going on.

P.S. I am a self taught pilot who attributes everything I know about flying to the fact that I could predict what was going on when I found myself making a mistake. But, there is knowledge (esp. theories) that does not help you much with basic flying, so you need to get a good grasp of the basics and apply them to how you fly. Some more advanced topics in aerodynamics will help you later on in advanced aerobatics and still later on when you decide to build your very own design.

-Q.

I've got onto this thread a bit late, but I wanted to add my two cents worth here . . .

I've been teaching ground schools (from private through commercial) for quite a few years now. Knowledge is power, but if I could sum it up I would teach two principle above all else.

The first would be center of gravity, center of pressure.

Second, would be the characteristics surrounding stalls and spins.

There you have it . . .

FYI, there's an excellent book on model aircraft aerodynamics by Martin Simons. I think it's available on that jungle bookstore, amazon........

in the book stick and rudder (which was mentioned earlier) he sums up the whole "lift" thing by saying the wing goes up because the air goes down.

he dumps bernoli's(sp?) priciple as useless to a pilot and tells him to think of the wing as a flat plane (as in shape) that is angled to push the air down.

the more air you push down the more lift also the faster you go the more effective the wing is pushing the air down. basically he sumed it up with angle of attack and speed. if you think about it, a pilot does not need to know about the span/cord/airfoil of the wing as he cant do anything about it. he needs to concentrate on the two things he can, the airspeed, and the angle the air hits the wing.

I just started reading the book but I already see why it was pretty much the standard reading for pilots. he makes alot of good points that are practical knowledge to pilots that can be used and practiced all the time, like how to tell if you will clear that telephone pole before the runway in your power off glide, and why pointing the nose down increases your glide range.

its a good read so far.

Asking how much aerodynamics a pilot needs to know is like asking how much physics the driver of a car needs to know, and the answer is about the same. Both need to know the relevant consequences, and nothing more. A driver needs to know that ice is slippery, but more importantly, needs to have the skills to deal with it. A pilot needs to know about the conditions that lead to stall, but more importantly, the skills to deal with it ( or to avoid it ). There is probably more emphasis on a pilot's understanding aerodynamics, because when they have problems, their vehicle could fall from the sky. Otherwise, the situations are similar. It seems to me that because fewer people fly, and tend to do so out of a particular interest, pilots tend to have some motivation to understand aerodynamics, while the typical driver has the same interest in physics that the average human does, which is approximately zero.

banktoturn

What in the world is a fighter pilot going to do with CG and CP??

Not trying to be cute but I just can't imagine what in the world I would do with either one even if I had a PhD in aero.

I don't doubt your concern . . .

Obviously, the big boys do things different as they've got aircraft dispatchers and a ground crew to do the majority of the work for them. However, in the general aviation world we tend to do more of our own work . . . which is a concern if I'm going to send someone out in the bush to pick someone up. If they're flying in to carry out a bunch of hunters with a couple of moose, then I get concerned.

Okay, understand but that sounds to me like a simple weight and balance calculation as opposed to a knowledge of aerodynamics. Guess it is a matter of semantics. Now, who teaches that?

Hey, just pulling your chain!

BTW, the next time you have an empty seat, let me know. I've never eaten Moose (at least not that I know of).

Moose is okay . . . a lot of work though; especially because you can't fly in and hunt the same day.

As for CG (weight and balance), we get a lot of idiots up here that end up killing themselves because of this. Because of bush flying, people will strap anything or place anything into a plane and takeoff. I've seen the harmless (guns strapped up and down struts; making them look like fighters), to the harmful (having doors straped to gear with elastic cords) or a full moose in the cargo area.

What I try to teach is to make sure you know where your CG "Range" is and use it to your benefit. If you're going heavy or over long distances, why not place things "towards" (but not past) your aft CG limit. There's actually some desirable characteristics that may benefit your flight. Too far back may put you into a flat spin or make you otherwise unstable. We even had an idiot kill, almost all, of a village's tribal council. The final ruling came back saying that the plane had an elevator stall, not by the main wings as traditionally thought of. The problem is, if you try real hard, to enter an elevator stall the recovery procedures are almost the exact opposite of the main wing stalling (hence their deaths).

akpilot,
what outfit do you work for? I'd PM you but you don't have PM option enabled.

akpilot, Could you describe an elevator stall and the recover procedure. I don't know what you are talking about, but it sounds interesting.

Could you please tell me the approximate month and year plus aircraft type as I'd like to read the accident report. Sounds very interesting

What's up with the golf comment? Actually having an understanding of aerodynamics helped me become scratch golfer. I feel knowing how temperature effects lift and spin helps me more then anything I could pick up in a golf book.

Sorry, I got busy yesterday . . .

I'm with the U.S. Air Force Aero Club up here. We've got 172s, an RG, a 206, and a Seneca. I'm also the Safety Officer.

I guess that feeling comes through a lot of practicing, not from theory, although I love theory too.

However, real feeling of flight can only be obtained by flying a real aircraft.

Feeling of flying model aircrafts is different. It's not so much about flying in the traditional sense.

A good pilot needs the feeling, he/she should be like a part of the aircraft.

It should be like riding a bike or swimming.

Theoretics and proper training should tell the do's and don'ts in advance. If something unusual happens, beyond that training, then the most skilled pilots will act properly by intuition.

Cheers,
Ikaros

PS
great thread !
DS

I just never could get into the zen or whatever it is that makes chasing a little ball around the grass fun.

I apparently didn't inherit a golf gene as evidenced by the fact that I think crowds following golfers in tournaments must be sun struck. It isn't as if there was anything mental or physical going on, no survival skills are being sharpened when the only mental thing is figuring out that you need to hit the ball toward a little hole, isn't that pretty basic thinking?

Granted it is a survival skill to be able to swing a club and hit something but how many golpher heads can you whack off and eat before golpher starts tasting not so good? In the old days we let the little kids with clubs chase the golphers and we went after bear and buffalo.

Maybe if the ball was moving when you hit it (kinda like baseball) but it is after all standing still and no one is allowed to talk or anything. That is fun?? Think about it, a little ball, perfectly balanced club, grass is mowed, nothing is moving, what sport is there in that? At least you should have to make your own club.

If it wasn't for the fact that you can say you could beat the other person and gain a little stature in eyes of other golphers (whoops I meant golfers, I think) why do it. It surely can't be a macho thing. Walking around with a dinky little club and daintlly swinging at a little golf ball is macho? Not.

Like I mentioned, no golf gene was handed down

Real feeling of flight -- rather subjective --
Personal feeling of flying a 85 hp lightplane-- boring-
Riding in an old airliner as a passenger in a wild electrical storm-
Quite disconcerting.
Flying models and working out the "why" of it's performance - fun-
Building a 50% scale Pitts -and having to redesign it as I go -and making sure the tykes puppy does not chew on any parts - well - well- all in all-- satisfying.

Ben,

There are plenty of sublime pleasures, and other kinds too, I suppose. That doesn't mean they are shared by everyone. There is nothing quite like walking around the course, endeavoring to have the elusive 'good round', and even hitting a few really good shots. It's nothing like flying RC planes, or learning aerodynamics, but that doesn't detract from it at all. On the other hand, there are monster truck rallies. Now there's something I can't understand at all. To each his own.

banktoturn