masonman

I'm flying a little toni by GP. It is a real clean lined plane. I was wondering which would be best for slowing it down a bit for landings, airbrakes or flapperons?. Since this airplane has such a short tail moment If i do use one of these methods will i be fighting it with elevator to keep it on a desent glide path to the runway?

Tall Paul

I wouldn't do either.. Just live with the fast landing speed.

Lomcevak Duck

My Feedback: (14)

By airbrakes do you mean inboard flaps or spoilers? Maybe a functional airbrake out the side of the fuselage? Spoilers won't really slow you down appreciably so much as they will only decrease lift and drive you into the ground harder. If the ailerons are only on the outer portion of the wing I would advise against flaperons, as they will cause the aircraft to be more prone to tip stalling. The best option IMO would be either keep the approach speed up and land without flapperons/spoilers or (if you really want them for the fun of it) cut inboard flaps.

masonman

I'm fixing to be flying at a field with a 300ft strip. rather than the 1000 we have now. I was just hopeing to slow it down some, so i can land short

masonman

No it has full length ailerons. I was wanting to use a mix of channel 1 an 6 to drop the ailerons like flaps but they still work as alierons in that position

Lomcevak Duck

My Feedback: (14)

I advise against outboard flapperons because you are increasing angle of attack at the tips when you lower the flapperons. This is giving you washIN at the moment you need washOUT the most. You will cause the tip to stall before the root (not good on short final) and if you try using aileron to correct the wing drop to one side you will worsen your problem and might make the next "Super Cool Crashes with Classical Background Music" video

Lomcevak Duck

My Feedback: (14)

Sorry. I keep writing my post as you post something else. 300 ft. should still be plenty to bring in that plane. I learned to fly at a field with a 100' runway and a 50' ravine about 20' off either end. There were pattern contests there too, and back then pattern planes were fast.

masonman

Wow, i would be in the creek. I'm sorta new to this plane. I love everything about it as far as how it flys. But a click or two of throttle could change weather you touch down here or 200ft down there. Would it work if i used it just to slow it down some the bring them up after i slowed down, just setting up on a long low, flat approch to loose some more speed on its own....? What is washout an washin????????????

MustangAce

My Feedback: (3)

You can experiment with just a few degrees of spoilerons at a time to figure out exactly how much is best for your field.

I used them on an F-20 to help slow down. I eventually didn't use them at all but I had to use a long flat approach. There was plenty of room at my field.

masonman

I'm useing a Fataba9C an Im not sure how to adjust how much it comes down. I just hit a switch an down they come.The manuel for this thing sucks.They hang down to about 20 degrees or less...Is that way to much?

Lomcevak Duck

My Feedback: (14)

With the right prop I don't think you're going to have too much trouble with an overly long-flat approach. This plane's lift to drag ratio is most likely less than other planes you're used to flying unless you have a thing for pylons. It may land fast compared to what you're used to, but touching down at a higher airspeed is all that's in order. if you can get the wheels on the ground in the first third to half of the runway it should roll to a stop with room to spare. Remember that if you don't like your approach you can always (almost always) go around. I promise 300' is not as short as you're thinking. 1000' is enormous. A full scale Cessna 172 can come to a full stop on less than 500' for reference.

These terms describe an intentional "twist" built into a wing for the purpose of stability or instability. WashOUT describes the tip at a lesser angle of attack than the root. This causes (or aids) the root of the wing to stall before the tip so that your plane won't roll to either side during a stall, but rather the nose drops straight ahead for recovery. WashIN is just the opposite. I can't think of a reason this would be intentionally built into a wing, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been done. I just can't think of a reason you would want to do it at the moment.

masonman

Our field here was a dragway, before it become a runway.plenty long an plenty wide. The 300 footer is wide aswell, an landing real hot bothers me cause the real short moment this thing has , makes it a hand full on the ground....Thats why i was wanting to slow it down as much as i could. But i can live with it..... The reason for this thread about my little toni is there is a guy at the field with a minnow which is a mid-wing an he can drop the flapperons an almost walk faster than it lands. was not sure if that would work with the toni or not cause its a low wing...Thanks for all the imput on this so far duck.

MustangAce

My Feedback: (3)

The adjustment programming is in the airbrake function of the radio. You can adjust in percentages there.

da Rock

300' is plenty.

Just remember that you won't crash on any landing that you are smart enough to abort when it should be aborted. Landings can be the safest maneuver you can do. All you have to do is dialup the right mindset. Anything you don't like, anything that looks or feels wrong, anything..... push the throttle back up and go around. It is not required that you have to set it down that approach or else.

Our runway is 300' and the rule is, if the airplane isn't down by halfway, why not go around? We don't charge for failed landing attempts after all. Does that field?

Tall Paul

It is the mindset...
So many guys fail to even consider a missed approach, when 1/2 the runway is behind them, and they're still flying.

masonman

Thats very true paul. I'm just freakin out about something i shouldn't

WRX Dave

Very true. Just remember, you're coming in for a go-around, unless you decide to land instead.

I wish a missed approach were an option. R/C ILS anyone?? [8D]

rmh

That plane is a nice ARF- but nowhere as hard to slow down a the F1 models with racing 40's
get the CG right to the book then practice flying slowly -
This is THE key to learning to land
all of the fixes and flaps and gee gaws are for nothing --if you first ,have not learned to fly the model slowly -with comfort -
setting the wing at a higher positive angle will generate plenty of drag.
This is accomplished by learning the maximum angle of flight - for still maintaining control.
some expo in the elevator and enough throw will make a big difference.
forget trying to add a band aid.

masonman

Good idea dick....Band aid

Desertlakesflying

My Feedback: (28)

not one mention of spoilers. it shortens your glide slope slows down the plane and cuts lift all at the same time

wst50

Would it be possible to use a dragchute? It works for the space shuttle. (Sorry if slightly irrelevant)

rudder turns

Guys,Guys, All you need is airbrakes,with 2 servos in the wing,aylerons raise slightley,makeing the air dirty slowing the plane(stopping tip stalling),and elevator mixes in so It won't baloon.(expariment)Best yet you can put airbrakes on a switch,and throttel stick together,when your going to land,flip the airbrake sw,and as you throttel down the aylerons raise and the elevator also mixes in,best yet if you decide to go around,throttle up aylerons flatten out and elevator goes back to normal.I'm using futaba 9c and also the 8u works the same just programed different.Go to the faq at the futaba web site,also Don Edberg has a couple of books that are really good,you won't believe what you can do with these radios.Good luck Ed.

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

Dick Hanson made the main point. How slowly can you fly the airplane? It's extremely common to see R/C modelers landing their airplanes much too fast. Most models, even the GP Little Toni, can land safely a LOT more slowly than they usually are landed. You have to take the model high enough for recovery and just practice flying slowly. Find out what the minimum controllable airspeed is. Find out what throttle/trim setting gives you a nice approach that allows turns without stalling. You'll quickly find out that your model will have a MUCH shorter landing roll that you thought.

Along with learning to fly the airplane slowly, you need to learn to set the model down close to the end of the runway. Another thing many modelers tend to do is allow the model to get past them before touchdown. Sure, it may be easier to judge the flare, but you've also used up a lot of space.

The only real cure for all these things is practice, practice, practice. At one time, landings were scored in Pattern, and the top flyers all could land their model on the mains only right on the spot. The difficulty in judging was how pretty the approach, flare, touchdown, and rollout looked. You CAN get to be nearly that good!

schwatd

Guys,

I'm with BAX on this one, I think AMA preaches practice practice practice at safe alt. just so you can get a better understanding of your aircraft's flight characteristics, secondly, how about an instructor pilot to helpduring the more uncomfortable parts of flight with your plane. and to quote a previous post "It is the mindset...
So many guys fail to even consider a missed approach, when 1/2 the runway is behind them, and they're still flying." I also was of the impression that the AMA wanted us to practice missed approaches so that we got better at recognizing a bad glide path/slope and didn't push a bad position. Anyway my 2 cents. and if you need flaps, flaps are first suppose to increase total wing surface area & lift, then in their more extended position provide addition 'controllable' drag.

jmb52760

This is slightly off-thread as well but... I have a Calypso pattern aircraft (Hanno Prettner, late 80's). The plans show an option for speedbrakes. You attach flat plates of plastic to the landing gear legs facing forward. Adds drag when you put out the gear. They should be sized so that they retact into the wells fully. I didn't install these so I don't know how well they work. Of course, this is only applicable if you have retractable LG. The plane is difficult to slow down for landing so I can see where they may be beneficial, especially for contests.