So ok, vorticies are bad because they create turbulent flow, that is destabilizing and decreases wing efficiency and it's lift. How come, then, that geese fly in a V formation which puts the wings of the bag goose right into the vorticity of the lead goose? How come they use less energy flying that way? Is this the same principle as in a Su-33 that there are small wings in front of the main wing? How come that is good, doesn't that put the back wing into vortex of the front wing?

Lafayette.

It's simple drafting. They are cutting down on wind resistance, when the lead goose gets tired he moves back. They can go further distances this way before resting.

You could probably google this and come up with the answer.

Also google the B1 canards, or Smucks (SP?). They are used only in Low Altitude high speed flight where they dampen the nose of the airplane thereby reducing crew fatigue. As opposed to an airplane like the Eurofighter or Rafale that uses them to increase angle of attack without loss of lift on the forward section of the fuse, thereby getting more agile, however, there is a loss of speed.

Everything in aviation is a compromise

Where is it written that the trailing geese's wings are right in the vorticity of the ones ahead?

The flock that just flew over was V'd rather wide. It looked to me like no vortex from any tip would or could have affected any trailing goose.

I wouldn't bet that the Su-33 canards are there to produce anything for the wing. The purpose the designer had for those probably was more important to him than whatever deterimental effects they produce.

I am not sure about your question but a PhD engineer I know once explained to me why when you see ducks or geese flying one side of the V is longer than the other.

When geese fly in a vee formation why is one side longer than the other?



More geese!

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/nature/q0237.shtml

They just do it to look cool and it's easier to shoot them.

It's a win win.

The lead goose trades position when they get tired by falling back behind a new lead goose, and it doesn't matter where the lead is for the trailing flock.

Since the vortex is revolving, the trailing geese are riding the upwake of the vortex from the goose ahead of them.

The US Air Force has done some experiments with this effect as well to extend fighter range.

>>When geese fly in a vee formation why is one side longer than the other?<<

Because there are more geese on one side than the other. They fly, they don't count.

If they fly in a straight line and one takes a dump....

It was a joke. A very old one.

You've seen geese fly in a vee formation before? Do you know why is one side of the vee longer than the other?

More geese.

After wasting a couple minutes of my life reading this dumbass thread i am tempted to kill myself. Only because I can't find the starter of this thread in a timely manner. People, please take a few minutes to think before you post. Think to yourself... Does this sound dumb? Should i post this nonsense on a R/C website? Should I run a pipe from the exhaust to interior of my car? THINK PEOPLE!!!!

I remember reading about the testing of escort fighters flying in the tip wake of bombers. I'm remembering pictures of a B36 and a couple of the early swept wing Thunderchiefs but I may be off on this. They did do some testing of the wake riding to increase efficiency though. I don't think it went anywhere since it would have been hard on the fighter pilot to concentrate that hard for that long.

I've seen V's where to change leaders the leader drops back and that whole side lags back in formation so the "point" moves to the member on the side that doesn't lag. That explains why the point is seldom in the center. I also watched one time where a really big V had a whole outer portion of one leg fall back and form a new smaller V almost like a military marching drill. And then the lead realized that he didn't have the energy and fell back right away to let the new leader take over. I guess geese get tired too.

The point is that vortices contain energy. And in this case that energy aids the geese in the tip positions to fly at the same speed as the leader with less energy.

Digital flight controls and better autopilots make it possible if you have the sensor inputs.

I worked on a Terrain Following Radar system a very long time ago. It had three settings - Cruise, Penetrate, and OH *****. The third setting put the airframe right on the deck with maximum g loading positive and negative.

After reading this Dumbass thread i am tempted to kill myself. only because I cannot find the original poster of this thread in a timely manner. People, please think before you post. Think to yourself. Does this sound dumb? Should i post this on a R/C website? Should I run a pipe from my exhaust to the interior of the car? THINK PEOPLE!!!

I am edting this post since it is not worthy.

Don't let us interrupt your planning.

Hmmm, how many geese in the vee have to have harmonicas for this effect to work?

Corollary: what is the airspeed of an unladen swallow.

Sorry, I ran out of medication today. I'll be better tomorrow.

Play nice. Impolite posts have been deleted along with replies deleted or edited.

If you don't like the topic then just move on.

God has spoken

BMatthews said that vortices contain energy and that energy in this case aids the aft/backward geese. I agree that they contain energy, but then how come aircraft taking off after another aircraft want to avoid that aircraft's path- due to the wake that aircvraft produced? Don't geese produce the same wake? So what
s the benefit of flying in a formation where the wake hits the back geese???

Lafayette.

The wake from a mega multi ton airliner is a lot more powerful and far larger than the wake from a goose's wingtip. Also the following planes are not following in that "sweet spot" just off and behind the wingtip. Instead they are flying into the disrupted vortex zone many seconds or minutes afterwards when it's had lots of time for the two formations to grow, slightly dissapate but more importantly collide and churn around from that collision. Suddenly instead of riding the wave like a surfer you're being dumped into an oscillating washing machine. So it's two totally different situations.

Is that an African or European swallow?

Gents,

In the winter the air mass is much higher so the ratio of the differences of harmonics of the legs of the V formation much too low.
In winter our Gees in the Netherlands do fly for that in a W formation. See the picture!
We call that "W inter formation"


Taurus Flyer.

An article (with pictures) on the topic:

http://www.warren-wilson.edu/~physic...seV/index.html