Doesn't any one preflight their planes any more. Seem like all they do is jump in and go. Here in Colorado we have had three planes crash on take off and two dead stick in one month. Eight people that have had a firy end when engines or turbine fails! Looks like the people in the hobby, ARF or RTF add fuel and go. I no it is hard to run up some of the larger plane now but it seem there should be a way to check them before you run out of runway!

we had atleast 3 plane crashes here, atleast on was because of water in the fuel....

Lack of good pre-flight habits is a common problem, but usually by people who have gotten somewhat complacent due to lack of problems, especially with their own plane. I am a former dealer (American) cfi, charter and ferry pilot, with 5000+ hrs over 60 years, and have flown some 60 different makes and models of planes. I have never had a takeoff failure, and only two in-flight gear failures. Both a C-310 and an Aztec had the same failure, the hydraulic hose at the outlet of the hydraulic pump. Both occurred within about 3 months of each other. Fortunately, emergency extension procedures worked, with no resulting damage. But it sure had me taking a hard look at the "circulatory" systems, hydraulics, fuel, brakes! I have religiously done thorough preflights, especially water in fuel. BUT--I also performed the pretakeoff checks (mags, props, etc) PRE-shutdown! If a mag quit working while I was flying, I want to know about it BEFORE I try to go flying again! Lee Robinson ROBINAIRERC

I see it a lot. One guy here has a cheyenne. He jumps in and flys. One time he taxied through a ditch trying to get to a runway and bent all three blades on both engines, he never even noticed. Someone noticed it after he landed where he flew. He has done that 3 times. You think he would learn. Some people never do. We will read about him eventually. Hope he doesn't take anyone with him.

Had a guy crash one of my planes once. Ran out of gas on takeoff doing touch and goes. He actually looked in the tank before the flight and said "yep, has enough." He didn't use the stick to realize it was almost empty.

People get too complacent!

If you looked at the General Aviation crashes, there are about 1/2 dozen reasons that just keep surfacing, same scenerios over and over such as:

flew into weather shouldn't have
Buzzing grifriends house, hit tower,
took of runway too short downwind,
flying A/C poorly maintained
Buziing boyfriends house, hit cow,

Etc...

I do a pre flight before I go up EVERY TIME, regardless. After 4 years of flying crop dusters, and my present seat flying pipeline patrol, a little extra time spent before start up every morning makes for good peace of mind all day long, especially at the low altitudes I fly at over pretty remote areas.

It's safer in the air than on the ground but what are people thinking. When I was flying you walked around the plane checked controls popped the cowl check for water and oil leaks.Then we went into the office and made sure we filed a flight plan. Now a lot of people don't even have a medical and are never checked out . One of the fatals here was a student pilot in a twin and 2 pass. It is also interesting how people get hired at air ports that do not no what fuel is what. "It happen" and when we finish flying for the day we topped off the tanks!

It always amazes me when a Pilot calls the front desk at an FBO and ask the counter personel what the weather is! Pilots this stupid shouldn't even be driving cars. I always tell the counter person to tell them to call FSS or look out the window.

dOOd, what were you flying? A Pietenpol or a P-51??

REMEMBER 20 % OF U.S. POP. HAS A COLLEGE EDUCATION SCARY ISNT IT

Yea, and half of them can't get jobs cause they don't have a clue. Scary is right!

I ALWAYS did a thorough pre-flight inspection. Even if the rental plane had been flown that day and had just landed. Whilst I was learning to fly I was told a story about two guys who owned a tiger moth. One had been flying the previous day and noticd some stiffness in the elevator controls, after flying he set about undoing the linkages to give them a once over before going home. He didnt finish the job, planning on returning in the morning to complete his work. On arrival at the hanger the plane was gone, he found it and his now deceased part owner at the end of their private grass runway amoungst the trees. The other owner had decided to go for an early morning flight and just jumped in and away he went. Obvioulsy no pre-flight or even controls free, full and correct pre takeoff check was done or he'd be alive.

Checklists and double checks will save your life.

BTW who use's the TMPFISCH check, pretty much covers it all for flying light aircraft if you apply each letter to everything that begins with that letter. ie: Trims set, Mixture rich, mags both, pitch set, fuel selected/ fuel pumps as req'd, Instruments L-R T-B set, switches (inc every switch, radios the lot) as req'd, controls, carby, cabin air, hatches harnesses or anything else that fits.

If you don't use the proper A/C checklist, you will most likely flunk any real checkride and set yourself for a bad situation. When the feds asked if you used your checklist and you say you use the TMPFISCH or GUMPS or ABCXYZ well you can kiss your license goodby. In fact it is not legal to make up your own written checklist unless approved by the FAA.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, I just thought that would be bad advice for people.
Gary
King Air F-90

Keep in mind there are 2 goals when flying.

1. Above all do it safey
2. Do it legally, if this violates rule number one, don't fly.

1 and 2 are not the same thing.

You have all covered this well. From my experience I can add only that I see a symptom that is rampant throughout aviation that I can describe in two points:

1) Improper (or not thorough) training. I honestly think that preflights and A/C condition in general is not stressed enough. A possible reason might be that since A/C are mostly much more reliable now that even 30 yeears ago maybe some of the newer instructors find it (falsely) unnecessary to check every little detail or at least as often as should be done. I am sure all of us, even 20,000 + hour pilots, need to constantly watch out for complacency. I will admit that I have been guilty and just by the grace of God got away with it.

2) I may kick up a storm here but....... Ultralights. I think they are great and have their place. Having said that I see too many people buy one, get a couple of hours of "instruction" and just take off and fly. three deaths here in this area in less than a year directly related to lack of knowledge of even basic aerodynamics or the physics of flight. I know there will be those that will jump on this and defend U/Ls. Trust me, I have heard all of the arguments but I have also been first on the scene of the results. I am not saying that they cannot be safe and fun.

How do U/Ls contribute to GA casualties? Well, it seems to add a sense of "flying is easy, and anyone can do it". Case in point: I know first hand of an individual that flew U/Ls for a few years then moved up to full scale. Even though he went through basic training, ground school and such, he always had the attitude of "this is no different than my U/L, just faster". Poor preflight was just his way before and apparently his instructor did not emphasise it enough (or he just knew better). 3 weeks after receiving his license, dead at the end of the runway. Water in fuel. I am not saying that the average Joe is not smart enough to do basic stick and rudder stuff. What I am saying is there are a lot of folks out there not taught a healthy respect that any flying machine can kill you. I know GA is fighting for new converts every day and we need to pass on the heritage of the freedom of flight and freedom in general but maybe EVERYONE needs a little lesson in the sanctity of life (your own too) and to slow down, observe and THINK!

I have been flying for only about 200 hours and I have gained the reputation, where I fly, of being almost crazy when it comes to pre-flight. On about 50% of my preflights, I usually find something not right. Most of the time they are not major, usually just a loose screw somewhere, but I have found conections on the control surfaces whos' screws were about 1 thread from falling off, I have found water, and lots of it, in the fuel many times, I have found both major and minor oil leaks (this has been one of my pet-pieves, checking oil, since on my second solo, I lost all oil shortly after take-off because an oil gasket disentigrated), and on retractable gear aircraft, I have found screws on the landing gear plate backed out. There have been many other problems I have found all because I insist on a thourough pre-flight. After all these problems, I have gotten into the habit, and hope to stay in the habit of a good pre-flight.
I have also seen the pilots who get in the plane without a pre-flight and take off without a run up and I just hope that if something goes wrong, they don't take anyone with them.
Seanpcola, I agree with you about the ultralights. I believe that they are a great thing for people willing to learn how to properly and safely fly them but unfortunately, I have seen many accidents and lost someone close because they did not respect thier flying machines. After my friend learned how to spin in an ultralight, he took his son up with him and entered a spin at a low altitude. The ultralight crashed and I was told it caught fire and burned both him and his son to death while his wife and daughter watched (they couldn't get to them in time). I have known many ultralight pilots who go through the process of thouroughly learning about aerodynamics and how to properly care for ultralights and are great pilots, but I have known many who don't even get instruction, just hop in and fly.

This thread has served its purpose if one person flying real aircraft or model takes the time to check their plane, for their safety and others. You can not be to through or to safe. At least you are alive to fly anouther day.

[8D]