Well the Gnat WAS designed as a fighter, certainly had fighter performance as one or two Pakistani pilots flying US built fighters (F86) found to their cost and at the time of the Yellowjacks we DID have fighter team the Firbirds, flying serious heavy metal , the Lightning, just too expensive but as Dick I am sure will confirm the Lightning was a pig to keep serviceable.

Almost forgot, a British , RAF, team STILL holds the world record for having looped the most, 22, fighters in formation, the Black Arrows. Forgive my amnesia but what is the most looped by an American, US, team !!?

And we had the ultimate 4 ship formation team, though not aerobatic, the White Arrows, four Concordes flown in formation on Dec 24th 1985 each carrying 100 pax sipping champagne, some of my friends were flying them AND I have the pics so I know its true ! !!! Dont think any American SSTs have done that yet ! (Please look after AD on Intrepid ET !)

And my wife and daughter saw the ULTIMATE formation in London, brought tears of joy and pride to their eyes, and to millions of others. A Concorde flown by Mike Bannister with the Reds tucked in behind overflying Buckingham Palace for the Queen's jubilee celebration. Now THAT takes some beating !

Regards,

David Gladwin.

XR987 I believe David...

"Almost forgot, a British , RAF, team STILL holds the world record for having looped the most, 22, fighters in formation, the Black Arrows."

Probably trying to evade a single Wyoming Air National Guard F-15 on their tails?

I checked on your Concorde parked on the Intrepid a few blocks away...the hubcaps and the eight-track stereo are gone, but, hey, that's New York!

Seriously, though, it's such a neat bird, I get to see it and the SR-71 almost every day.

Thanks Todd and ET. Glad YOU guys have a sense of fun !
Ans seriously though a lot of us wish AD was at Kennedy, not where it is. Take a look at the Scimitar for example actually on the deck of Intrepid, the corrosion from the salt air is really bad. Move it to JFK or even Times Square, (some people think that the huge model BA had there WAS a real Concorde.

Regards, David

My all time favourite Concorde photo

Gee pictures of the Folland Gnat bring back alot of memories for me. As a young fledgling structural design engineer my very first job was working on a redesign of the Gnat wing. I was working for Short & Harland in Belfast, N. Ireland -they were contracted to do the job for Folland. That was the fall of 1957-where did the time go as it seems like it was only yesterday! I dont remember exactly why all the changes were being made-the wing had the same plan form as the original and I believe the same airfoil but lots of structural changes. I left S&H in Feb 1958 and went to Boeing so I did not see the design completed.
Its nice to see that there are still a few of those airplanes still around-I would have thought that they would be all gone by now! You never know what you are going to see on RCU!


Al Watson

Reds and G-AXDN (now in Yeovilton Naval Air Museum) and 22 Hunters looping at Farnborough. David, it's a small world - one of the original Black Arrows pilots who took part in the 22 Hunter loop comes to CJ as a spectator...lovely old chap, I'll introduce you next time you're there.

Dick

Love to meet him, Dick. S/L Roger Topp led the Black Arrows and he is still around and looking very spry. There were two excellent articles about him in recent "Aeroplanes" which included a fascinating story of his time an an army GLIDER pilot.
Black Arrows, 111Sqn., Blue Diamonds 92 Sqn., , Firebirds, 56 Sqn., Red Arrows, CFS, MACAWS, College of Air Warfare, Red Pelicans, CFS golden years, where DID they go !

Regards,

David.
PS got the summer CJ dates yet?

Unfortunately not...they'll not let me book too far in advance but you'll get to know soon as I do!

Cheers,

Dick

yes, and the only one how flight real Jet Fighter (that can be used in combat) is the patrouille Suisse

Sorry, wrong, Alessio. RAF training Hawks can carry a centerline cannon (Aden 30mm) and some can carry sneb rockets for ground attack, and its manoeverability makes it a useful, non radar, close defence fighter. Some marks of the Hawk are sold as close support aircraft, too, with a variety of weapons loads.

Even the Red Arrows Hawks have a war role and in such an event would carry two Aim 9 sidewinders with radar support from Tornado F3s. The wiring is already in !

At one time the RAF declared 72 Hawks to Nato as operationally ready, mainly I think, the Brawdy TWU aircraft, rather than the Valley flying training aircraft.

I would not be at all surprised if the Swiss Hawks can be equipped with some sort of weapns fit, it would certainly make economic sense.

Regards,

David Gladwin.

what i wanted to say, that the F-5 tigers used by the patroille suisse are combat aircraft, that on monday morning train acrobats, and the rest of the weeks the are used as sky police, being if necessary armed..without any change needed..
they are not specifically made for acrobatics..the only add-on are the smokers..

btw thank for the info..i may edit my post above..
[8D]

and swiss air force don't use anymore the hawk..[] maybe they will switch to the PC21 for advanced training..

Alessio, point taken, but not many people know that the Reds have a war role !

What, has Switzerland grounded or sold the Hawks, when did that happen ? And where are they going, being sold like the Vampire ?
Regards,

David.

They sold off their Hunters, which were very desireable, and most recently, their Mirages, which went for very little money. They were without engines, and were de-milled by simply removing an aileron or slat on each. Suprised they sold for so little, like $10k or less for each. The Hunters went for more, I suppose they are much more do-able as civillianized aircraft. Evidently, Swiss-owned aircraft go for considerably more than most others, because the maintainance is so good.

so nice plane..http://www.mirage-buochs.ch/images/G...r/Img_0161.jpg

actually mirages were sold for about 20kCHF and up..

luckly i didn't go to the auction. otherwise i will have now a full size mirage in the garden..
and i think some are still airworthy..

hunter: for 5500 USD you may flight on it...on the double place..http://www.hunterflying.ch/de/home/index.php

I noticed some of you guys mentioned concorde and posted some pictures. I was reding a british online newspaper and noticed this article that nearly brought a tear to my eye. please read it. i had to post a link due to copywrite restrictions


Rust in peace, Concorde

[link=http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006060220,00.html]http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006060220,00.html[/link]

I suppose Dago Red owner Terry Bland may have been a bit upset if Skip had sold his airplane! Actually, Mr. Bland has/had it up for sale but I have not heard if there were any takers. I'm surprised somebody as "macho" a Skip would allow himself to be photographed getting down from something like a Folland Gnat! (that's a joke folks)