Went flying with a friend the other day in his Bonanza, and saw this plane on the ramp. Looks like it's doing 300kts sitting still. I thought pusher turboprops were passe' since the Beech Starship.

Anyways, what is this plane? Other one is the Bonanza.

It's called a Piaggio. Not sure of the rest of the name. But you should be able to search it on your search engine. they are quite fast, and are currently in production.

Its a Piaggio P.180
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P180_Avanti
Pretty cool looking plane if you ask me.

We have one that flys into the local airport near my work. It sounds total different from any other airplane. it is cool too.

skeeter

Its the same company that makes the Vespa.

Well, I'm glad they finally built something that goes faster than 45mph.

Avanti...it is like the old Beech Starship only this one is still in production and is a fast and cool.

One came through our local airport a few weeks ago, and I got a good look at it. VERY nice! Checked his flightplan when he left going back to Greenville, SC and he had 370kts at FL350. Not many turboprops in that class...

Roy Aultman

I've seen the Starship up close, much better-looking IMO. Wonder what the Piaggio has to offer the Beech didn't have? Pusher turboprops like both these planes are noisy (outside), and I don't imagine are as fast as a jet the same size would be.

I'll answer my own question about what the Piaggio has over the Starship. 80 mph faster, better climb, and lighter for it's capacity.
(Wikipedia sure is nice )

Starship is still better looking.

The Piaggio is the UGLIEST corporate aircraft flying. That being said you cant argue with the performance numbers:

Ceiling: 41,000
Vmo/Mmo 402 kts / .70 Mach


Compare that to the Starship:
Cieling: 41,000
Vmo/Mmo 335 knots / .60 mach

The Piaggio is about 40 kts faster than the Citation 500 I used to fly!

The P180 is certainly a neat little airplane. Not nearly as new as most would think it to be. It always amazed me that they could get over 400kts with the same engines that I used to plod along with in the King Air at 285kts. Although I was dragging along a larger, less shapely airplane. Definatly a unique sound coming overhead, not really like the starship. It can also get off the ground in a reasonable distance, something the B2000 never could. It is also been improved lately with the AvantiII, a little faster and better avionics. That plane (and a lot of other US P180's) is operated by Avantair, a fractional ownership company.

Not really on topic, for all of you who thought the Starship was dead, here are a few pics of a living specimen found in the wild. Taken at Wiley Post airport just north of Oklahoma City on Feb. 27. One of 3 or 4 left in the world. Really a treat.
Ben

Also, I wouldn't say it is the ugliest corporate plane flying, but I did stumble across the inspiration for it.

P180 is an aluminum airplane, NOT like the Starship!

Oterwise know as a flying catfish.

nice planes, I'm a student pilot and just about to solo ( I believe the bonanzas are also called "doctor killers" ( well thats at least thats what my instuctor said )

I didn't realize that, but the specs say it's over 95% aluminum, and the fastest turboprop in service in the world today. And after looking at a couple of other pics, yeah, it DOES look like a catfish (although not with a B-26, or A-20, whatever, wing like the other one in the pic above )

I've heard that, too. Reason for that undeserved moniker is that it is a plush aircraft, at the top of its class (and doctors like that kind of stuff). There are several posted warnings throughout the plane that caution that it is easily loaded beyond its C/G limits. The POH says that you can be 200 pounds below max gross weight, have less than full fuel and be within c/g limits on takeoff.......... and land with the C/G well aft of allowable C/G, creating a dangerous (fatally!!) out of balance condition.

But if you look at safety records, comparing the V-tail to other planes of its class built and flown within the same time frame, it has almost the best safety record of all of them. Most of the accidents in the records L read were due to either an out of balance condition, or a ground accident, specifically of the pilot retracting the gear after landing while on taxi back to the ramp. Earlier models had the flap and LG switches in opposite location from each other than later models. Pilots who flew one and then switched to another would accidentally hit the LG switch, thinking they were raising the flaps after landing. There were a few reports of damaged aircraft from airspeeds greater than the listed Vne, which caused the LE of the V tail topop rivets from overstress. This was addressed by a modification to the location of the forward spar of the V tail and a retrofit of the older a/c.

I had heard of the "killer" rep before I flew in this plane, and did a lot of reading before I climbed in my friend's plane. I wouldn't hesitate to get in his again, especially because I was very impressed with his piloting.

Today's doctor killer is the Cirrus. The moniker comes from people buying too much plane for their skill.

I work with doctors each and every day. Their problem is they generally overestimate their skill, in whatever they do. It's a common "God Complex" that seems to be instilled in their medical training. On the one hand, it's good to be confident in your abilities, no patient wants a MD who seems unsure of himself. On the other hand, one has to know his limits, and be discretionary.

[quote]ORIGINAL: khodges

I didn't realize that, but the specs say it's over 95% aluminum, and the fastest turboprop in service in the world today. And after looking at a couple of other pics, yeah, it DOES look like a catfish (although not with a B-26, or A-20, whatever, wing like the other one in the pic above )


The Starship was mostly composite,,, one of the industry firsts for commercial/corporate aircraft. The P-180 is aluminum,, and FAST !

Yeah I knew about the composites in the Starship. Rutan has been a pioneer in their use in aircraft. As sleek as the P-180 was, I didn't look closely at the skin when I saw the one at our local airport. The specs say that Piaggio claims the fuse's shape accounts for 25% of the total lift of the aircraft, which allowed for a smaller wing, which reduces drag, which increases the effective power loading, which increases speed, yada, yada....

If I remember correctly, although the fuse is aluminum, it is not made in the normal manner. Instead of making a skeleton of rings, stringers and longerons and then attaching the skin to it, the skins are formed to shape and then the structure is attached from the inside. Supposedly it makes a smooth, perfect skin instead of having the little bumps and depressions most airplanes have. I also seem to remember that it increases cabin volume a bit.