Jim McNeill's bio.
08-06-2003, 05:02 PM
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SP Methods Still Count These Days
Have you read all the posts concerning this problem? Have you noticed its only 2 or 3 individuals doing all the posting for the most part ? Have you noticed the tone and attack style of the posts. There is a bigger picture here. Its called integrity. If thats something you want to over look, ok. But we are only hearing from the squeaky wheel all of the time. And what a squeak. Read my posts and look what Im trying to say. In this day and age, we seem to justify everything we do with statements like, "Im Just Telling The Truth", OR "He Said She Said", or "So and So Overheard", and the list goes on and on. That is not the above board way to conduct business. And the Final question. What would you do, if this was directed at you ??? I have been attacked for saying lets keep it clean.
Vince
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08-06-2003, 05:26 PM
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District V
Vince,
You like me, are not affiliated with District V, WE have our own DVP to deal with. One thing that is different, I do all of my flying in District V, and what goes on there is of great interest to me, as it affects ALL of the decisions that are made by the EC.
Can you name ONE positive thing that JM has done for the AMA, or his district, and back it up with facts....?
In the latest issue of MA, he is the only DVP that did not show the contacts for his AVP's.......What is going on with that......? And YES, I have read ALL of the post concerning this issue, and there is certainly more than 2 or 3 people that have voiced their opinion on this subject..........! The actions of the District V Vice President, are questionable at best...........
9
You like me, are not affiliated with District V, WE have our own DVP to deal with. One thing that is different, I do all of my flying in District V, and what goes on there is of great interest to me, as it affects ALL of the decisions that are made by the EC.
Can you name ONE positive thing that JM has done for the AMA, or his district, and back it up with facts....?
In the latest issue of MA, he is the only DVP that did not show the contacts for his AVP's.......What is going on with that......? And YES, I have read ALL of the post concerning this issue, and there is certainly more than 2 or 3 people that have voiced their opinion on this subject..........! The actions of the District V Vice President, are questionable at best...........
9
08-06-2003, 06:43 PM
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Jim McNeill's bio.
When it comes down to discussing the merits of an individual for the office of District V VP you try to highlight the individuals experience and performance that would qualify for the job. It is unfortunate that very little can be said by Mr. McNeill's supporters in this regard. The old saw, "You can't polish a turd" comes to mind.
And you are right . . . . EVERY VPs ACTIONS IMPACT ALL AMA MEMBERS - NOT JUST THOSE IN THEIR DISTRICT.
Everyone should keep this foremost in their mind. District V's problems are your problems!
Help fix them.
Red S.
And you are right . . . . EVERY VPs ACTIONS IMPACT ALL AMA MEMBERS - NOT JUST THOSE IN THEIR DISTRICT.
Everyone should keep this foremost in their mind. District V's problems are your problems!
Help fix them.
Red S.
08-06-2003, 08:07 PM
#29
Jim McNeill's bio.
What would you do, if this was directed at you ???
I'm not working for anybody on this website! If you ran for office for Mayor, Governer, Senator, whatever, then it would be perfectly OK for someone to point out that you lied about your credentials. Mr. McNeil is running for office so discussion among AMA members about his credentials, lack of them, or lying about them is perfectly above board! I guess you want to vote for the incumbant and don't like hearing that he may be no good? How many pictures did he take of you?
I'm not working for anybody on this website! If you ran for office for Mayor, Governer, Senator, whatever, then it would be perfectly OK for someone to point out that you lied about your credentials. Mr. McNeil is running for office so discussion among AMA members about his credentials, lack of them, or lying about them is perfectly above board! I guess you want to vote for the incumbant and don't like hearing that he may be no good? How many pictures did he take of you?
08-06-2003, 08:10 PM
#30
Jim McNeill's bio.
Have you noticed its only 2 or 3 individuals doing all the posting for the most part ?
Funny that the loudest individuals are either Hall of Famers, about to be Hall of Famers, or likely to become future Hall of Famers. And you be? Not that I am even close.
Funny that the loudest individuals are either Hall of Famers, about to be Hall of Famers, or likely to become future Hall of Famers. And you be? Not that I am even close.
08-06-2003, 08:33 PM
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Re: SP Methods Still Count These Days
Originally posted by vpresley
Have you read all the posts concerning this problem? Have you noticed its only 2 or 3 individuals doing all the posting for the most part ? Have you noticed the tone and attack style of the posts. There is a bigger picture here. Its called integrity. If thats something you want to over look, ok. But we are only hearing from the squeaky wheel all of the time. And what a squeak. Read my posts and look what Im trying to say. In this day and age, we seem to justify everything we do with statements like, "Im Just Telling The Truth", OR "He Said She Said", or "So and So Overheard", and the list goes on and on. That is not the above board way to conduct business. And the Final question. What would you do, if this was directed at you ??? I have been attacked for saying lets keep it clean.
Vince
Have you read all the posts concerning this problem? Have you noticed its only 2 or 3 individuals doing all the posting for the most part ? Have you noticed the tone and attack style of the posts. There is a bigger picture here. Its called integrity. If thats something you want to over look, ok. But we are only hearing from the squeaky wheel all of the time. And what a squeak. Read my posts and look what Im trying to say. In this day and age, we seem to justify everything we do with statements like, "Im Just Telling The Truth", OR "He Said She Said", or "So and So Overheard", and the list goes on and on. That is not the above board way to conduct business. And the Final question. What would you do, if this was directed at you ??? I have been attacked for saying lets keep it clean.
Vince
I try to stay out of these threads. As you know, I take Red's side when I do post. I think you need to realize the reality of the situation. JM uses his position to attack Red. Red uses the net to counter attack. I will also tell you this: If the type of attacks made on Red were made on me by anyone in JM's position, I would not be nearly as mild as Red is.
As you also know, I posted up some of the attacks made by JM, in another thread on this forum. Items that are documented, not ones of opinion.
The simple fact is this will not be over until one of them dies, or a change is made in D5 (and maybe not then), in my opinion.
Vince, you can either choose to believe the facts, or ignore them. That is certainly your right. I think if you look at the facts, and throw out the rhetoric posted by Red (and others), the truth is clear.
JR
08-06-2003, 09:26 PM
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No one is better than anyone, Hall of famer or what ever, R/C or Non-R/C
Well back to my original intent, which seems to be missed. I DONT CARE WHAT YOU FLY, I DONT CARE WHO YOU ARE. You are a member of the AMA, with all its benefits. Your willingness to contribute is most important. JM was voted in, now vote him out if you dont like him. Its all this childish crap in the postings that I take issue with. And childish most of it is, on certain individuals parts. Raise the level of integrity and conduct. Work for you goal, lose the childishness. That is my point. Reach the grass-root people. Not the miniscule numbers here. That is where the effort should be. Still keep the integrity level up. All people are equal in the AMA. If you reach a goal in the AMA thats great. Your still no better than me, or anyone else for that matter. You still put your pants on, one leg at a time, and you still only get one vote.
Vince
Vince
08-06-2003, 10:07 PM
#33
Jim McNeill's bio.
Vince,
The problem, as I am sure you are aware, is the majority of AMA members don't give a hoot about who is their District VP. I know for several years that was true of me. Many of those that do bother to vote know nothing of the candidates other than the campaign statements written by the candidates and printed in MA.
With the election process favoring incumbents so strongly it is necessary to generate some interest in the process to win an election. I, for one, would have never bothered educating myself about the goings on in District V if it had not been for Red's posts here.
Keep up the good work Red!
Eric
The problem, as I am sure you are aware, is the majority of AMA members don't give a hoot about who is their District VP. I know for several years that was true of me. Many of those that do bother to vote know nothing of the candidates other than the campaign statements written by the candidates and printed in MA.
With the election process favoring incumbents so strongly it is necessary to generate some interest in the process to win an election. I, for one, would have never bothered educating myself about the goings on in District V if it had not been for Red's posts here.
Keep up the good work Red!
Eric
08-06-2003, 11:01 PM
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Jim McNeill's bio.
Vince,
Yes, McNeill was voted in. Lets look at how.
District V
Jim McNeill 2065
Manny Sousa 804
Ton Stillman 1985
Total 4854
He was voted in by 43% of the members. 57 voted for someone else. He played the incumbent card by getting Sousa to run against Tony Stillman. Sousa is in the same club. What do you figure the odds of that are in a District with 20,000 members. Sousa had never shown any interest in running nor did he campaign. But a good politician knows the game. If you can get elected by a plurality then it behooves you to not to run head to head, but rather find someone to help dilute the vote.
Is that the way you want to see the AMA run?
As stated earlier, the bulk of the membership could care less, their vote, if they do vote, is a random selection of candidates. Do I know this name? . . . . .
Without an effort to get the facts out to as many as possible, agreed there are few modelers on the Internet, fewer still on this forum, but the few that are here can arm themselves with the facts and hopefully spread the word. If the word is not the Pollyanna view of McNeill, but rather showing him for what he really is, so be it. He set the stage, not I.
Red S.
AMA 951
LM/CD
GO FOR THE FIX . . . CHECK THE FACTS . . . THEN VOTE!
Yes, McNeill was voted in. Lets look at how.
District V
Jim McNeill 2065
Manny Sousa 804
Ton Stillman 1985
Total 4854
He was voted in by 43% of the members. 57 voted for someone else. He played the incumbent card by getting Sousa to run against Tony Stillman. Sousa is in the same club. What do you figure the odds of that are in a District with 20,000 members. Sousa had never shown any interest in running nor did he campaign. But a good politician knows the game. If you can get elected by a plurality then it behooves you to not to run head to head, but rather find someone to help dilute the vote.
Is that the way you want to see the AMA run?
As stated earlier, the bulk of the membership could care less, their vote, if they do vote, is a random selection of candidates. Do I know this name? . . . . .
Without an effort to get the facts out to as many as possible, agreed there are few modelers on the Internet, fewer still on this forum, but the few that are here can arm themselves with the facts and hopefully spread the word. If the word is not the Pollyanna view of McNeill, but rather showing him for what he really is, so be it. He set the stage, not I.
Red S.
AMA 951
LM/CD
GO FOR THE FIX . . . CHECK THE FACTS . . . THEN VOTE!
08-06-2003, 11:03 PM
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Jim McNeill's bio.
With the election process favoring incumbents so strongly
To put it another way, the normal AMA member sees a list of names, a star by one of them, and a statement from each candidate extolling motherhood and apple pie. How does this strongly favor the incumbent?
(Seriously asking the question.)
08-06-2003, 11:39 PM
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Incumbent Advantage
Originally posted by pinball
How is this so? I've read about how the nominating process favors certain people, and I assume incumbents have an easy time getting on the ballot, but once the ballot is set, how does the election process favor incumbents?
To put it another way, the normal AMA member sees a list of names, a star by one of them, and a statement from each candidate extolling motherhood and apple pie. How does this strongly favor the incumbent?
(Seriously asking the question.)
How is this so? I've read about how the nominating process favors certain people, and I assume incumbents have an easy time getting on the ballot, but once the ballot is set, how does the election process favor incumbents?
To put it another way, the normal AMA member sees a list of names, a star by one of them, and a statement from each candidate extolling motherhood and apple pie. How does this strongly favor the incumbent?
(Seriously asking the question.)
He is elected by a plurality. Should he fear a strong candidate he can nominate or have a nomination in his pocket to put another on the ballot to water down the vote.
The incumbent has an ample budget in which he can get around the district and campaign, taking picture, giving out gifts, presenting awards, appointing people in large clubs with lots of votes to key positions, etc.
He has 24 issues of MA in which to promote his good deeds.
He can pass motions that prohibit others from advertising their candidacy in Model Aviation.
He can submit motions where any campaign literature for a paid insertion from a challenger must be reviewed prior to publication (to give him a head up and enable him to counter with his own adds).
If you think an incumbent is not in control, then tell us why so few incumbents (1 that I can recall) have ever been unseated in the history of the AMA. Are we really that good in picking our officers?
Red S.
08-06-2003, 11:56 PM
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Jim McNeill's bio.
Red, I think the power of incumbency is much simpler than what you stated.
The average member does not even know who his VP is. He gets a ballot, and reads the campaign statement mailed with it. With three, or less, very nice statements, he says to himself "The incumbent (which is clearly marked for him) must be ok, because he was elected before" and marks his ballot accordingly.
Vince, that is one of the reasons that the Internet is a potentially useful tool. If the very few that see the information here go out into the real world and try to influence their friends, it can swing the election in a close race, such as the last one was in D5. 3 votes here, 5 there and the election has a different outcome. Can being aggressive cause a backlash? Sure. However, being nice has not worked in the past.
JR
The average member does not even know who his VP is. He gets a ballot, and reads the campaign statement mailed with it. With three, or less, very nice statements, he says to himself "The incumbent (which is clearly marked for him) must be ok, because he was elected before" and marks his ballot accordingly.
Vince, that is one of the reasons that the Internet is a potentially useful tool. If the very few that see the information here go out into the real world and try to influence their friends, it can swing the election in a close race, such as the last one was in D5. 3 votes here, 5 there and the election has a different outcome. Can being aggressive cause a backlash? Sure. However, being nice has not worked in the past.
JR
08-07-2003, 12:06 AM
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Jim McNeill's bio.
Red, what are the honest chances the EC would vote to keep Jim off the ballot in '04? They HAVE to know how this district feels. I've also got something that was thrown my way regarding Muncie. I'm proud for him, but what elegant (?) timing the Hall of Fame award was for Tony....only improvement would be to make it 8-9 months from now...<wink> Wonder if Muncie is sending a message???
