Thank you.

and the beat goes on and on and on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't see any documentation that the AMA has rejected these ideas. I want to see documentation over the signature of the AMA president. One would think that random chance would produce a few good ideas out of that many.

[quote]ORIGINAL: phlpsfrnk


What would be different about flyers1's (Clarance Ragland) is that it would be the flight instruction exclusively endorsed by the AMA. Unfortunately that has not happened, hence this is one of the reasons for the loss of membership as implied by Mr. Ragland. You can read about it here:
http://lockportjournal.com/business/...Lockport-store

Nice read... sounds like a good technique to teach people to fly models while also getting them into the hobby. When you think about it is very similar to full scale initial instruction.

I guess ultimately getting more people into the hobby would increase AMA membership.

It is a real asset to have guys like Clarence willing to share and take the time to help others to be successful. Hmmmm... I have a thought...maybe AMA should look at recommending the technique...or maybe form a committee or task force to keep them busy instead...just a thought.

They left "Convince teenage boys that RC airplanes are more fun than beer and girls" off the list.

LOL

I agree that current training and introduction in to the hobby is severly lacking and a contributor to dwindling numbers of AMA participants. I also believe that the huge variety of shiny scale RTF's that vary in quality and are generally difficult to fly also contribute heavily to the problem of low numbers. No longer do you have to build for weeks to months, and the need to find someone that knows how to build and fly has been removed from the process with the RTF's. Now anyone can succeed, or fail to learn, without ever finding a club or even and instructor, and AMA is never seen as a necessity. So why would anyone make the effort to seek out a club or instructor. All of these new problems should be what is increasing participation, but with the closed minded practices of many fields and many individuals in this hobby we have turned a potential boon into a slow spiral. I have visited far too many fields where the best I could hope for was the cold shoulder, and more often it was rude condesending attitudes. What will save our fields? Minimize the cliques and discurage the superior attitudes that seem so prevalent at most fields.

Have you submitted that to the STF so they can tell AMA about it?

Isnt that the purpose of the STF after all,
to get those ideas and put the good ones into practice?

As one of the original volunteers that joined the STF, I have to agree that the STF was doomed to failure from the first day. Many of the volunteers gave a lot of their time and had some very good ideas, however, if an idea does not come from the wise men on the EC it does not stand a chance. Another problem was that the STF began to opperate before all of the procedures were put in place so many people became fustrated. I do believe that the concept was good but it was never properly put into place. At this point, I belive it is dead. The GOOD OLD BOYS CLUB IS ALIVE AND WELL.

Right! Exactly.

After serving on a few committees I have come to the understanding that they are often formed to keep "activists" busy and ultimately wear them down...often the desires of the "select few" are enacted despite the committee's work... very frustrating to waste energy along those lines...

Now with that being said, not all committees are a waste but you have to use sharp judgement to determine the value of each and that determination will have to factor in the grade of the GOB variable from the onset...

Frank, I seem to remember another list of ideas presented to another GOOD OLD BOYS CLUB that were ignored.

Presented to the IMAA Board of Directors at the July 21, 2000 meeting

By:
C. L. “Red� Scholefield – IMAA 18939 District V.
4138 NW 33rd Place, Gainesville, FL 32606 (352) 373-8856, FAX (352) 335-9715

ADMINISTRATIVE

1. Directors shall appoint as a minimum one assistant for each state or territory they represent. This shall be done within 60 days of assuming office. Since the election leads the assumption of office by at least two months this should give the elected director time enough to put his team together.

2. Directors shall identify an alternate, to be approved by the BOD, to succeed them in the event they cannot continue to serve in the position. This shall be done within 60 days of assuming office. This alternate will represent the Director at any required functions he is not able to attend.

3. Before being appointed as Assistant Directors the individual shall have demonstrated some interest in the IMAA by having assembled and flown at least 1 model aircraft meeting IMAA rules.

4. The BOD shall make an effort to involve more members to serve on committees established by the board. 1) This will take some of the load off the Board Members in the day by day running of the IMAA. 2) This will get more member involvement and hopefully stimulate growth of the IMAA. 3) It will enable to BOD to select individuals with specific expertise in the area under consideration. 4) It will serve as a training ground for future BOD candidates.

Areas of opportunity:
1. Inspection manual
2. Constitution and bylaws review
3. Web site archive review
4. Web site classified management
5. Guest book moderator
6. Forum moderator(s)
7. District News submittals for web site
8. Chapter list improvement to include chapter e-mail contact
9. IMAA “marketing� of benefits – why join?
10. Statistical studies – loss of membership, why, areas, differences.
11. Incident review and study – NTSB for giant models.
12. Industry relations – use of IMAA “legal� term, IMAA logo
13. Director peer review guidelines
14. High Flight proof readers

5. The BOD shall authorize a moderated IMAA discussion group (members only) as part of the web site.

6. Peer review (semi-annual) review of Directors performance by other directors as to contribution, involvement, service to District, membership numbers, sanctions. Each director presents his review of others to the President for consolidation and discussion of results with the individuals. Summary of these reviews will be made available to the membership via HF prior to elections.

HIGH FLIGHT

7. Opportunities for “cost improving� High flight. From the Summer 2000 issue:

1. New releases, page 62- 70, just two per page. Then look at RCM, Aug 2000 Showcase 5 per page.
2. Calendar of Events - 16 per page compared to 40 or more in Model Aviation.
3. Directory pages 120-122 - 3 full pages to list about 100 or so IMAA Officers/Directors and Assistant Directors – compare to complete AMA Competition Directory on 3/4 of a page - lists about 60-70 key people.
4. Advertisers index - 80 for full-page compare with RCM 150 2/3 of a page.
5. Accessories order form – full page compare with Model Aviation 1/3 of a page.
6. Index – full page 3 articles/6 departments/full listing of chapter reports – compare with R/C Report 10 articles/ 10 departments
7. Magazine general:

Magazine pages weight (oz) wgt/page
RCR 134 7.8 0.0582
MAN 138 8.1 0.0587
RCM 184 9.6 0.0522
MA 184 8.2 0.0446
Average 0.0534
HF 126 10.8 0.0857
High Flight weight compared to others 1.60

8. Formatting – 36 words/column inch - compare with Model Aviation 50/column inch.
9. Layout – Safety Corner (page 10) 3 ½ column inches of air. Builders Corner (page 26) 4 column inches of air. Tips From the Pros (page 38) 4 1/2 column inches of air.
10. Change of address form – is nearly half a page required?
11. Meeting minutes, constitution and by laws…. simply make a note that these are available on the web site or may be requested from your Director with a SASE.

There are many opportunities here, yet we are still following essentially the same “airy� format we have used over the past few years. Can we not put our 30% dues increase to a more effective use?

Respectfully submitted.
Red Scholefield

It would seem that organization is suffering a worse decline in membership than the AMA. Can we learn anything from this other than the GOOD OLD BOYS CLUB while still alive, are not doing all that well.

I guess all that stuff could be considered or just turn it in...

IMAA has unfortunately... or fortunately depending on how you look at it, been rendered obsolete...

They have been a great success, as the average modeler today is quite familiar with the larger scale model in one way or another.

No longer are 1/4 scale 80 incher models the "Big Plane" they once were. The "big bird" event now rarely require IMAA...and really, why should they?

For the above posts concerning IMAA:

#1. The IMAA magazine High Flight is now TOP NOTCH Reading and Study for any Big Bird Flier. It is as good as Aeromodeling magazines get and it caters to the Big Bird Flier.

#2. The IMAA has an obstacle that is holding the organization back big time and the organization is being slowly strangled to death. It is NOT the large amount of Big Birds, the electrics, or whatever that is doing the throat-clincher.

Before I again get too riled up, let me say that at the IMAA Rally of the Giants, last June 2010, as a working flight-line director, I had the opportunity to discuss this with IMAA President, Mr. Bill Hamby. Contrary to some of my earlier convictions, I found Mr. Hamby to be a very nice gentleman and well organized in our discussion. I now well understand his position and I really have no answer for it other than trying to get the AMA EC to become a bit more willing to better support those organizations that support aeromodeling in their own specific desires, wants and needs.

As a long time member of IMAA, I well recognize IMAA is not now trying to lead all to "Big Birds" however anyone may now define "Big Birds". IMAA is the same as any other Special Interest Group, simply trying to provide an Operations Center for those that like to gather in the shade of their own organization be it sport, competition, or whatever.

AMA, IMO, treats IMAA as some out-of-home stepchild. IMAA requires that all IMAA members also be AMA members. OTOH, AMA does not recognize an IMAA Event even though AMA sanctioned, as well as IMAA. An AMA CD could get a sanction on an IMAA Fly-In and plan for a large event. Then 30 days prior, a club on the other side of the hill could also get a sanction for a Fly-In and even limit it to Big Birds. An IMAA Fly-In gets NOT EVEN THE SMALL 50 mile-radius protection of any other Fly-In. (100 miles minimum between like Class C events)

Therefore IMAA, an organization of AMA members that likes to gather in a noncompetitive get-together is not allowed any event distance protection form some neighbor that wants to take would-be fliers from the IMAA event. YES, THIS STUFF HAPPENS. BTDT or better described a victim. So most clubs simply say: "Big Bird Event - OK, but not IMAA." They don't want to take a chance that a non IMAA event will surface around the corner and there is no one there to pay for the burgers, and hot-dogs. Therefore this lack of attention is the noose that is strangling IMAA to a slow death. Of course the other side of the coin says that IMAA could allow non IMAA persons to participate in IMAA events, however that would, IMO, just draw the noose tighter.

Therefore, in my learned opinion, AMA just by sheer stubbornness, is doing its best to kill the IMAA, and do injustice to a section of AMA membership. Of course one could ask the membership to vote AMA members into the AMA EC that have a vision beyond their nose. Would YOU vote for such? I remember an old story that goes "I watched as they came to take the XXX, but I did nothing. It goes on to say so many different groups were taken while "I did nothing." Then it says, "Then they came for me, and there were none left to do anything."

What will YOU do?

Horrace, You do realize that the IMAA is the ONLY SIG that restricts their events to IMAA members. Not a good way to pick up new members IMHO.

The IMAA also wanted to allow non-AMA members, ie. Sport Flyers Association, to fly at their events as well as not require AMA membership to belong to the IMAA when thay applied for SIG status.

They have been sort of cross-ways with the AMA ever since their inception wanting special exceptions for their events that no other SIG got. I takes two to tango.

Hmmm...Sounds like you are saying; limiting model pilots to only those that belong to the particular organization impedes the organization's own growth...




BUT how do we reconcile your above point with the first rationalization of yours??? It seems in the above statement that you are against IMAA's desire to open its events to more pilots....

Maybe your point is "AMA or no way"... That is the only thing that fits both rationalizations... but AMA limits it events to only AMA members... is that killing them too??? or does that only apply to inferior orgs like IMAA???

uh-oh

if a group that restricts its events to just its own members is not a good way to pickup new members,
and we know the group 'AMA' restricts its events to just its 'ama members'
..... hmmmmm

Yes, the only SIG, I do realize. However if it were NOT for the insurance situation, I'm betting that IMAC would be right there with IMAA. IMO the other SIGs just never thought of such. As it is.

However Sports FLyers is now simple history. IMAA knew well they would never get such from AMA, however WHY NOT ASK?
No one gets much of anything unless they ASK.

That cross-ways is because AMA holds the big hammer called insurance. IMAA has to bend and AMA uses that bending to screw IMAA over. Those IMAA members are also AMA members and AMA is playing dirty because they, AMA, holds the hammer to deny those AMAers the same event protection that is offered to every other group, simply because AMA doesn't approve of IMAA wanting their events to be for their people. I'm sorry Red, but AMA's position simply does not work for me. OTOH if I were an IMAA president, I think I could lead IMAA down a couple roads that would provide IMAA with their want and satisfy AMA.
No, don't ask! It ain't fer sale! Gimme 2 years as EVP and I think I could git 'er done. [8D]

Hoss,

I just sent the AMAa letter nominating you for EVP.

Good luck.

Thanks very Much. Very much appreciated. I need a bunch.

I received a confirmation yesterday.

Good luck!

WOW...

I can tell you one thing for sure, if IMAA separated itself from the AMA and became distinctly their own group I would certainly be a very active supporter of IMAA... Of course that would take a very real realignment of basic precepts that isn't common.

Are you an active supporter of the IMAA now, or would it take a split from the AMA for you to support IMAA?

I am not a member if that is what you want to know...but I am very active in helping others get aquatinted with giant scale models... BTW I attend many large scale events every year...

Like I said earlier, IMAA has become irrelevant and obsolete for the most part... Time to switch gears if you ask me... There are more large scale model pilots now than ever and IMAA continues shrink and barely subsists...on the hind ***... The "AMA or no way" mindset will always keep IMAA a redheaded stepchild... for most of us that is just fine... and that is fine with me too if that is all they care to be... But I'd give plenty if they'd quit sucking the hind *** and grow a pair... Sorry if that view isn't to anyone else's liking...