It seems that the thread about writing to the local airport contains other stuff than just the topic suggestion. So in search of history rather than future guessing, I thought I would present a topic of AMA History.

So very many of you are new to AMA (anything inside 25 years is recent to me, ) that I am going to release something probably well capped for all these past 40- years. I found a thread in another forum about Old Time AMA National Contests and it was interesting. I responded about some of the NATs, 1972 and '73 plus a little known item that I discovered only some 5 years ago.

No likee, No readee!

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=17839.0

Re: MEMORIES ON THE NAVY NATS- SHARE YOURS

While just browsing through, I found this old thread. Very interesting back in 2010. Just thought I would add some final "Behind the Scenes" informational concerning the historic days of the late Navy Nats.

While I moved to Chicago-Land in 1968, new pilot UAL, I was too close to the bottom for any seniority during '68 -72 to get time to do anything needing a schedule. I flew in the '71 Nats mostly FF and helping my young sons. They each got a trophy or two, but 'ol Dad never did.

On to the purpose of this story. Early in 1972, the Glenview Base Commander changed. After a short while HE canceled the NATs as the Navy Nats used Reserve manpower to operate the NATs. AMA Headquarters then canceled the Nats for '72.

When I heard this I asked questions. I made local contacts, one being influential, and we asked the Glenview NAS Commander if it was personnel or Base or what. It was personnel. He got far too many letters from parents questioning why their little "Johnnies" had to work at a toy airplane event, especially extra hours while doing their reserve time and/or overtime on the base. Being new he just took the easy way out to satisfy the families. Remember back then there was a draft. Many had the option of service. Sailors did not do much jungle warfare. Many were back doing reserve time to serve out their military time.

The Commander said OK to use the base for the nine days, however not one Navy person could operate any official NATS space while on active duty at Glenview. We went to the AMA Executive Director, John Worth, and said that we could do the NATs with local manpower. John said "NO".

I then contacted the AMA President, Jonny Clemens in Dallas. He said if we thought we could do it, "Hexx Yes!". Worth was so informed, by Clemens. Worth was not happy being overridden, and he never let me forget it, even when years later I was a DVP.

Then I became the '72 NATs Manpower Director. In Chicago-Land manpower was not a problem. While a few prima-donas may disagree, I was very happy about the way folks poured in to help. IMO it was just terrific. Of course many event directors had their own close-knit personnel and that was definitely a BIG PLUS.

The '72 Nats was a success. The '73 Nats at Oshkosh, WI was a whole 'nother story. Remember there were no computers back then and the AMA ED never prepared for the differences in area. Yet we did have a total off-military NATs. It did happen!

Now here is a story that even I did not know until about 5 years ago when it was revealed to me by the late Reid Simpson, a real Free Flight competition person until his far too soon leaving us. Rest in Peace my Friend.

After the Oshkosh NATS the USAF volunteered to take over the program. They had a facility in IL that could handle the program. The Colonel that had just become Commander of the department that would handle the operation was also a modeler. He was anxious to bring the NATs into the USAF.

Well, who do you think just might have been the fly in the ointment? If you guessed the AMA Headquarters, you are correct. The Ex. Director DEMANDED that He and his Staff would have to have full Officer Rights at the Officer's Club, on base facilities (food service) Officer's Quarters, and be treated as officers. That was beyond the Colonel's authority to do so, especially O' Club and Quarters. AMA turned away a program that could have been a NATs Host for how-many-years I know not, but for a long time.
Even when I was a DVP that information never surfaced. It is still not "recognized" however I spent several hours one day, some 5 years ago, at a FF meet in Seguin, TX and Reid and I had a long talk about Old Times. This piece of history is no longer capped.

Therefore, IMO, all the AMA guessing games and FAA poop for flavor is just that - flavored poop. I have made a number of prophecies however the result is yet to be.
Now knowing some of the history maybe you can give the future additional thought. For 35 years I was under the impression that the USAF never wanted anything to do with AMA. Five years ago I learned the truth.

Is this AMA, FAA truth going to take so long? If so I won't have a care!

Hossfly, this is great information. But I have to say that the people running the AMA this day have a much different outlook for the AMA and are far more open minded. I am sure in my mind that Ex Director could not have lasted too long in a position of power. To not have the decency to NOT even think about asking permission to get into the officers club is beyond me. To the point that it angers me to read that someone actually tried to force that. To harp on something going back 40 years ago about an organization really is not good for ones health, and really does not do anything constructive. Although it is great information, something to keep in the backlots of my mind, I don't think it will apply to anyone currently running the AMA. Especially considering that person more than likely does not have anything to do with the AMA anymore. You can't fault the AMA, but you can fault the person that made that very bad decision.

Businesses and organizations make decisions all the time, and pick things that seem more important than other things to tackle. People running businesses and organizations come and go, and with that, the direction and agenda.

Just my young humble opinion.

Thank you Hossfly

So based on the recollection of a third party and no other evidence of an incident that supposedly occurred nearly 40 years ago we are to believe that the then leadership of the AMA acted like jerks and that means we need to be suspicious of the current leadership and their dealings with the FAA??


Sorry, that is just too much of a stretch for me.

Sounds like the GSA to me! Maybe that is were the former AMA staff moved to? I can see them asking for its use during the event, this is done at times, so I don't know why the base commander could not give permission for a short event. They whole story sounds fishy to me. The fact it took 35 years before you heard it, tells me that someone started a false rumor when people were no longer around to defend themselves.

Sport,
I don't know about false rumors but I was in the Navy in the 70's and active in flying control line when the Navy abruptly stopped supporting the NATS but I never heard what the reason was at the time. This is the first account that I have heard and always thought it was just a change in policy. While I may have issues with the way Horrace sometimes presents his "facts" I have not as yet heard of him promulgating falsehoods. I would be very interested if anyone from back then could corroborate or refute his statements.

If we know the facts of our history, it is hoped that we do not suffer a repeat of our past failures.

Regards
Frank

You nailed it IMO.

SOP for most public and private entities now...

Every system is just an opportunity for someone to take advantage of it...all to often specifically designed by and
for those that want the advantage...

Ican't say it's a falsehood.I don't think he made up the rumor. Itjust seems improbable. I don't know what the rules on O-Club use was back then, but now contractors, and actually anybody who is let on base can use the clubs. Now the public is cordoned off and not considered to have full access to the base during air shows and other events, but those preparing the events usually have access to the clubs. Now maybe some base doing more secretive missions might have some restriction but I know that at least Dobbins and Robins Air Force bases would have allowed use of the club. The food wouldn't be free though, and perhaps thatwas the issue.

How does one become so cynical?

Frank

It is no secret that the AMA has had it's leadership problems. Look what my district went through for years. When the Navy left the nationals it was not the best thing that ever happened to us. Then The USAF not picking up the Nationals was not a happy occasion. For what ever the USAF reasons were. The leadership of the AMA at the time had no real idea what was happening in the field. Meaning the flying fields around the country. When headquarters was moved to Indiana I was in support of the move. Why? At the very least we would own something. The lost of the traveling Nationals didn't do much to help the over all health of the AMA.
Does things change? Perhaps for the better. I do think we have leaders that really fly these things. If they don't perhaps they should step down. To many years our council was out of touch. I think the group we have now are in step with most of us. History takes no prisoners. As it has been pointed out there has been some mistakes made. Still mistakes are made and I feel there will be more. The hope is as each mistake is made there is a effort to correct them as all organizations should do.

A real Dan Rather, all accusation and no verification

This is more likely fiction, not history. Or at least a distortion of what really happened. How is it that the commander cannot give permission to use the club? Not very likely.

Well...If you haven’t seen the GOB system in action by now, you never will...LOL...

Of course, if you’ve ever been apart of a labor Union you probably only see other situations of advantagisms...LOL

Corporate and government system abuse is rampant today... Only by having your head in the sand could you miss seeing it but I guarantee you felt it![X(]

That is exactly the Dan Rather defense. "You know that this sort of thing happens all the time. Why can'tan unverified storyabout it be proof enough."

If that works for you, then fine.

Defense??? I don’t think so... but that is how a socialist like Walter P. Reuther would see it... Next...

My guess on why the Navy quit hosting the Nats was that the make up of the modeling community had changed. I think originally the Navy saw model aviation as a way for young people to become interested in aviation and join the Navy. By the the time the Navy quit sponsoring the Nats, the entrants had aged considerably, on average. Just a guess, no facts involved.

Wrote someting for another thread and it ended up here?Not sure how. I did not have this thread open at the time and somehow it posted here.</p>