time to stop the dromes..........NOW
02-15-2015, 07:42 PM
#701
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Oh! He meant press release. Why didn't he say so?
Actually, it is almost good news for us. They make it clear that they will honor section 336 to the fullest. The only remaining issue is getting them to revise some of the onerous issues in the interpretation. To me, those are the FPV restriction, for those that fly FPV by AMA rules, and the commercial use issue for the model plane industry, demonstrating their toys..
Actually, it is almost good news for us. They make it clear that they will honor section 336 to the fullest. The only remaining issue is getting them to revise some of the onerous issues in the interpretation. To me, those are the FPV restriction, for those that fly FPV by AMA rules, and the commercial use issue for the model plane industry, demonstrating their toys..
02-15-2015, 07:48 PM
#702
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
AMA Releases Statement on the FAA’s Notice of Proposed Rule Making for Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems
MUNCIE, Ind. — The Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA), the world’s largest model aviation association, today released the following statement in response to the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking for Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems released by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). “While we have not yet fully reviewed the proposed rule, we are pleased to see the FAA has concluded that regulations relating to the commercial use of small unmanned aircraft systems (sUAS) should not apply to the longstanding, educational hobby of flying model aircraft. These are two very different activities, and Congress appropriately made clear in 2012 that model aircraft should be exempt from federal regulation. The AMA will review the proposed rule in more detail to ensure that the rights and privileges of the model aircraft community are upheld. “As the nationwide community-based organization for the recreational and personal use of sUAS, the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) has created relevant safety guidelines, best practices and operating principles that have allowed enthusiasts to operate their aircraft and safely use this technology for more than seven decades. “AMA’s 78 years of experience in managing and overseeing the operation of model aircraft shows that a voluntary, community-based approach to managing this activity is far more effective in ensuring enthusiasts operate their aircraft in a safe and responsible manner. “To this end the AMA has joined with the Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International, the Small UAV Coalition and other members of the small UAS and hobby industry in launching the “Know Before You Fly” campaign. This educational outreach has been widely accepted and heralded as a beneficial and effective means of educating the new sUAS enthusiasts and addressing inappropriate or improper use of this technology. “AMA is committed to preserving the safe, enjoyable and educational hobby of flying model aircraft – without the need for unnecessary, onerous and burdensome government regulations.”
02-15-2015, 08:07 PM
#703
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-16-2015, 08:07 AM
#707
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-16-2015, 08:24 AM
#709
My Feedback: (26)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: El Paso,
TX
Posts: 677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as we read each day the problems of dromes is hurting us all......been in the hobby for over 40 yrs and would like to see 50 yrs of enjoyment.......but its got to stop now,people who sell these things and the people who use them.........or better yet who misuse them it needs to stop today....we will all be hurt over a few who dont care and only look at what they want to do.....the clubs should out law these things and the hobby shops who sell them should stop......what is going to happen is someone is gooding kill someone and the FAA will ground all of us.i say we stop it befor it gets to that point........big hobby supplyers should wait up and understand that is going on...lets put a stop to this today befor its to late..............
02-16-2015, 08:55 AM
#710
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And, you are correct, fomies and hexadecacopters are just a fad. It will fade soon, just like pet rocks and hula hoops.
02-16-2015, 09:16 AM
#711
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Aguanga,
CA
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So, are you going to administer the testing? The FAA says they won't do it, because the law says that they can't. And, we know for certain that no one can be forced to join a CBO.
And, you are correct, fomies and hexadecacopters are just a fad. It will fade soon, just like pet rocks and hula hoops.
And, you are correct, fomies and hexadecacopters are just a fad. It will fade soon, just like pet rocks and hula hoops.
02-16-2015, 11:04 AM
#712
So, are you going to administer the testing? The FAA says they won't do it, because the law says that they can't. And, we know for certain that no one can be forced to join a CBO.
And, you are correct, fomies and hexadecacopters are just a fad. It will fade soon, just like pet rocks and hula hoops.
And, you are correct, fomies and hexadecacopters are just a fad. It will fade soon, just like pet rocks and hula hoops.
Gerry
02-16-2015, 11:44 AM
#713
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-16-2015, 11:53 AM
#714
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FAA will administer the testing for certification of commercial operators. The CBO thing was stillborn, but AMA won't let it die. It is true that no one can be forced to join a CBO; that is plainly un-American to anyone who's eyes are not glazed over by some pipe dream of revenue generation it would create. If, in the most extreme unlikelihood, FAA were to grant AMA monopoly concession to sell any fraction of the freedom to fly a model airplane, one would have the option of obtaining commercial certification instead of buying recreational use permission from AMA.
The FAA has said, in writing, (Read the proposed rule if you don't believe me) that they will not regulate model aviation as defined by section 336. The FAA, in their interpretative rule, clearly recognizes AMA rules and programs so the CBO thing is alive and well. And, you are very correct, the FAA cannot, under any circumstances, force anybody to join a club. They will, however, punish anybody caught violating the existing FAA aviation regulations.
If you really want to enjoy your privilege to fly model airplanes, just stay under the radar by following the very reasonable AMA safety rules.
02-16-2015, 12:13 PM
#715
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Aguanga,
CA
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The FAA has said, in writing, (Read the proposed rule if you don't believe me) that they will not regulate model aviation as defined by section 336. The FAA, in their interpretative rule, clearly recognizes AMA rules and programs so the CBO thing is alive and well. And, you are very correct, the FAA cannot, under any circumstances, force anybody to join a club. They will, however, punish anybody caught violating the existing FAA aviation regulations.
If you really want to enjoy your privilege to fly model airplanes, just stay under the radar by following the very reasonable AMA safety rules.
If you really want to enjoy your privilege to fly model airplanes, just stay under the radar by following the very reasonable AMA safety rules.
02-16-2015, 12:44 PM
#716
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought I made it clear that I was addressing the "CBO aka AMA membership required to participate in CBO aka AMA programming (a condition imposed to operate within the authorization of section 336)" issue, the position taken by AMA. AMA is taking that position even though they agreed in the FAA/AMA MoA to put safety guidance information on their website and open to to the public.
Last edited by JohnShe; 02-16-2015 at 12:47 PM.
02-16-2015, 01:06 PM
#717
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Aguanga,
CA
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We are getting mixed signals here. If you are referring to AMA sponsored or sanctioned events, then yes, you must be an AMA member to participate. But, this has nothing to do with section 336. Section 336 specifically states that we must follow the safety guidelines of a CBO. It does not require membership. The reference to programming is for the 55 pound rule waiver or other such program waivers. You must be a member of the AMA for those waivers to apply when you participate in AMA programs. However, if you stay under the radar and don't do anything really stupid you can slip by those restrictions. Just remember, that the FAA will hang you by the balls if you interfere with the NAS and are caught.
02-16-2015, 02:06 PM
#718
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Orange County CA
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You may be getting mixed signals, I'm not. I'm not referring to AMA sponsored or sanctioned events. I specifically stated there is disagreement between AMA's intent and FAA's interpretation of what "CBO programming" is. We have had this discussion before, and I'm done trying to explain to you. The Q is, "does a modeller meet the condition of operating within the "programming of a CBO" as specified in section 336 as a condition for exemption from regulation by FAA?" Ask AMA, not me.
You do not have to be an AMA member to fly model aircraft for recreational purposes. If you do not want to fly under the umbrella of the AMA, you need to read www.knowbeforeyoufly.org and follow those set of guidlines, which suggests that you should follow safety guidelines such as the AMA's safety guidelines.
02-16-2015, 03:36 PM
#719
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Apopka,
FL
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You do not have to be an AMA member to fly model aircraft for recreational purposes. If you do not want to fly under the umbrella of the AMA, you need to read www.knowbeforeyoufly.org and follow those set of guidlines, which suggests that you should follow safety guidelines such as the AMA's safety guidelines.
FAA/Gov’t Relations
R. Hanson noted we are probably in our most complex, convoluted point that we have ever been in, in the last 6 years in terms of what is going on with the FAA and how it may or may not impact model aircraft. He is eternally optimistic that this will all shake out exactly as we expected it to; which is that model aircraft will continue to operate much like they do today.
Since the July Council meeting: The public comment period on the Interpretive Rule has ended; there were over 32,000 comments that were collected and tallied on the regulation.gov web site, and more could have been mailed, faxed and hand-delivered. In talking with EAA and others, this was a phenomenal amount of comments for a policy push. AMA has partnered well with EAA and the relationship seems to be getting better. They commented in AMA’s favor on the Interpretive Rule and submitted an extensive document. Just recently AMA returned the favor and submitted comment relating to a policy issue that deals with federally obligated airports.
Council had a conference call regarding filing a petition within the 60-day deadline (August 23rd), asking the courts to review an official action by a regulatory agency. Hanson noted that two other entities also filed petitions; a university group and an industry group. The courts stated that since they are all dealing with the same subject matter, they were going to treat it as one court issue.Council was informed that the FAA cancelled Advisory Circular 91-57. They have been working on a new replacement advisory circular that would reconcile the differences between the old 91-57 and Section 336. Hanson was surprised that they did not have a new one in place before they cancelled 91-57. For modelers, this means there are two ways they can operate, under 336 which means you must be an AMA member, or by filing a CFR. Hanson believes we (AMA) will get to see the new AC before it is final; he expects it will be a reconciliation of AC 91-57, Section 336 and the Interpretive Rule. The new AC could go out to comment, but it is not required. The message we need to convey to our members is they should follow the AMA Safety Code.
Since the July Council meeting: The public comment period on the Interpretive Rule has ended; there were over 32,000 comments that were collected and tallied on the regulation.gov web site, and more could have been mailed, faxed and hand-delivered. In talking with EAA and others, this was a phenomenal amount of comments for a policy push. AMA has partnered well with EAA and the relationship seems to be getting better. They commented in AMA’s favor on the Interpretive Rule and submitted an extensive document. Just recently AMA returned the favor and submitted comment relating to a policy issue that deals with federally obligated airports.
Council had a conference call regarding filing a petition within the 60-day deadline (August 23rd), asking the courts to review an official action by a regulatory agency. Hanson noted that two other entities also filed petitions; a university group and an industry group. The courts stated that since they are all dealing with the same subject matter, they were going to treat it as one court issue.Council was informed that the FAA cancelled Advisory Circular 91-57. They have been working on a new replacement advisory circular that would reconcile the differences between the old 91-57 and Section 336. Hanson was surprised that they did not have a new one in place before they cancelled 91-57. For modelers, this means there are two ways they can operate, under 336 which means you must be an AMA member, or by filing a CFR. Hanson believes we (AMA) will get to see the new AC before it is final; he expects it will be a reconciliation of AC 91-57, Section 336 and the Interpretive Rule. The new AC could go out to comment, but it is not required. The message we need to convey to our members is they should follow the AMA Safety Code.
02-16-2015, 03:37 PM
#720
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Aguanga,
CA
Posts: 1,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You do not have to be an AMA member to fly model aircraft for recreational purposes. If you do not want to fly under the umbrella of the AMA, you need to read www.knowbeforeyoufly.org and follow those set of guidlines, which suggests that you should follow safety guidelines such as the AMA's safety guidelines.
Simple Yes or No: Does AMA hold the position that Sect 336 only applies to CBO members? Provide citations for your answer.
Last edited by cj_rumley; 02-16-2015 at 03:49 PM. Reason: AVP vs DVP
02-16-2015, 05:22 PM
#721
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being an AMA AVP doesn't mean you speak for AMA, Tim. Cite Bob Brown or Rich Hanson saying that. What does "fly under the umbrella of the AMA" mean? Are you equating that to "within the programming of a CBO?"
Simple Yes or No: Does AMA hold the position that Sect 336 only applies to CBO members? Provide citations for your answer.
Simple Yes or No: Does AMA hold the position that Sect 336 only applies to CBO members? Provide citations for your answer.
02-16-2015, 06:04 PM
#724
All of U that bad mouth the AMA don't need to belong to an Origination U do not like. I definitely believe that those that Bad moth the AMA should give up their AMA member ship and be refused Renewal next January 1. If U don't believe in what an organization is doing than why in the world would U want to be part of it ...
Especially if U are not required to belong. JMHO
Especially if U are not required to belong. JMHO
02-16-2015, 06:23 PM
#725
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Round Hill, VA
Posts: 1,359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts