Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....
11-22-2015, 10:14 AM
#1851
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: El Paso,
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Mike
11-22-2015, 11:26 AM
#1852
That response is simply unacceptable. There are some flying fields in major cities in the US. Seems unlikely they were unable to locate a field in what appears to be farm country.
I've seen plenty of instances where modelers are unwilling to go out of there way to find a field and this sounds like one of them.
I've seen plenty of instances where modelers are unwilling to go out of there way to find a field and this sounds like one of them.
11-22-2015, 11:34 AM
#1853
You clearly don't understand crop dusting and the extent to which it happens on large (1,000 acres plus) farms in parts of country. Even when they're transiting, they stayed below 500' so as to not conflict with high speed jet traffic coming into / departing the military airspace. As for people in the club unwilling to contact landowners, that's pure conjecture on your part and just plain wrong as well. We contacted every major land owner within 20 miles...either they were not willing to give up money making farm land, unwilling to risk wayward models crashing into their dairy stockyards, or if they had land that wasn't used for farming, they were unwilling to assume the risk of conflict with the crop dusters. Even when we offered the world renown AMA site owner's insurance, they were unimpressed. One said "I might consider it if the liability limit was ten times that, but what you're showing me is nothing compared to the value of my business - which they could go after once the liability limit is breached...I'm not willing to risk it."
It is what it is. Some clubs succeed, some don't.
11-22-2015, 11:36 AM
#1854
All I said was since only current a AMA member has access to Muncie than there is a fee (your 75.00 dues) to use it. Nowhere did I mention access to any other club sites did I? Now in my case I pay my AMA dues and do not have access to the Muncie site due to my proximity to the site. So in my case I am paying "extra " for a site I cannot use since my dues support it.
Mike.
Mike.
11-22-2015, 11:46 AM
#1855
Oh brilliant one...what exactly would you do? Clearly you have some special super power to make people agree to give you land when they don't want to do it.
11-22-2015, 11:56 AM
#1856
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
And that's because the landowners agreed to allow them to use the land. If you've literally spoken to every private land owner with suitable space in a 20 mile radius, and every one of them tells you "no" for the reasons stated earlier (primarily liability w/ respect to crop dusting operations)...
Oh brilliant one...what exactly would you do? Clearly you have some special super power to make people agree to give you land when they don't want to do it.
Oh brilliant one...what exactly would you do? Clearly you have some special super power to make people agree to give you land when they don't want to do it.
I think Chris just asked nicely, probably said Please. And thank you.
Meant to add you clearly tried everything you could to get a place to fly, and it didn't work out, but at least you tried. I see the farmers position, and yours as well. Again, there seems to be some jist that the AMA is at fault here, even that there coverage wasn't enough for some farmers...but the reality is sometimes there just isn't going to be a place for a field. Some members of our club drive two hours to get here because they don't have a field suitable to their needs where they live. It sucks, but it happens. AMA can't make it all "right", all the time.
Last edited by porcia83; 11-22-2015 at 12:02 PM.
11-22-2015, 11:58 AM
#1857
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Next question.
Mike
11-22-2015, 12:08 PM
#1859
And that's because the landowners agreed to allow them to use the land. If you've literally spoken to every private land owner with suitable space in a 20 mile radius, and every one of them tells you "no" for the reasons stated earlier (primarily liability w/ respect to crop dusting operations)...
Oh brilliant one...what exactly would you do? Clearly you have some special super power to make people agree to give you land when they don't want to do it.
Oh brilliant one...what exactly would you do? Clearly you have some special super power to make people agree to give you land when they don't want to do it.
You did submit an application and received a denial in writing, right?
11-22-2015, 12:43 PM
#1860
And that's because the landowners agreed to allow them to use the land. If you've literally spoken to every private land owner with suitable space in a 20 mile radius, and every one of them tells you "no" for the reasons stated earlier (primarily liability w/ respect to crop dusting operations)...
Oh brilliant one...what exactly would you do? Clearly you have some special super power to make people agree to give you land when they don't want to do it.
Oh brilliant one...what exactly would you do? Clearly you have some special super power to make people agree to give you land when they don't want to do it.
"Recipients of this grant will be announced May the first of each year and it may be up to10% of the total improvement cost to the maximum of $3,000"
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2...s-Policies.pdf
I'm having a hard time believing you were planning a $30k project in order to receive the $3,000 maximum. Now, even if you were requesting the $3,000 maximum, you already stated the club had 30 members. Now, even though your request was denied by the, 30 members x $100 would equal the $3,000 the AMA would have provided. Now, you're telling me the 30 members couldn't come up with or raise $100 each? $100! There's a hell of a lot clubs in this country with dues >= $100. Even if they are already paying dues a $100 special assessment to move the field, save the club, and continue to enjoy the hobby doesn't seem excessive to me.
.
11-22-2015, 12:49 PM
#1861
Meant to add you clearly tried everything you could to get a place to fly, and it didn't work out, but at least you tried. I see the farmers position, and yours as well. Again, there seems to be some jist that the AMA is at fault here, even that there coverage wasn't enough for some farmers...but the reality is sometimes there just isn't going to be a place for a field. Some members of our club drive two hours to get here because they don't have a field suitable to their needs where they live. It sucks, but it happens. AMA can't make it all "right", all the time.
As for saying please and thank you, of course we did that. What Chris doesn't seem to understand is that you can't sprinkle fairy dust on things to resolve them. I'm sure his two cited clubs in NYC have substantial operational restrictions, hours, etc. and are impacted by TFRs very time the Yankees play, the Mets play, the Jets play, the Giants play, anytime there's a world leader at the UN, etc. The field I tried to hand the AMA for the cost of 50x500 x 4 inches of DG would have had zero noise complaints (all uninhabited military land), flat as a glass plate, no obstacles, protected airspace, great weather (except for heat) in the summer, and not a single TFR in the three years I was there.
11-22-2015, 12:53 PM
#1862
This discussion was all in the context of what we did to try and get a field and AMA wouldn't help unless it was open to all AMA members...a non-starter so far as access to the military installation. I find issue with that because at the time AMA was trying to get more members, and this would have tapped into military families and single Sailors. But AMA couldn't get past the "all AMA members" thing -- despite tolerating any number of clubs that don't allow any AMA member to fly (pg 132 of October MA as citation).
As for saying please and thank you, of course we did that. What Chris doesn't seem to understand is that you can't sprinkle fairy dust on things to resolve them. I'm sure his two cited clubs in NYC have substantial operational restrictions, hours, etc. and are impacted by TFRs
Are there any clubs in the USA that are exempt from TFRs?
very time the Yankees play, the Mets play, the Jets play, the Giants play, anytime there's a world leader at the UN, etc. The field I tried to hand the AMA for the cost of 50x500 x 4 inches of DG would have had zero noise complaints (all uninhabited military land), flat as a glass plate, no obstacles, protected airspace, great weather (except for heat) in the summer, and not a single TFR in the three years I was there.
As for saying please and thank you, of course we did that. What Chris doesn't seem to understand is that you can't sprinkle fairy dust on things to resolve them. I'm sure his two cited clubs in NYC have substantial operational restrictions, hours, etc. and are impacted by TFRs
Are there any clubs in the USA that are exempt from TFRs?
very time the Yankees play, the Mets play, the Jets play, the Giants play, anytime there's a world leader at the UN, etc. The field I tried to hand the AMA for the cost of 50x500 x 4 inches of DG would have had zero noise complaints (all uninhabited military land), flat as a glass plate, no obstacles, protected airspace, great weather (except for heat) in the summer, and not a single TFR in the three years I was there.
11-22-2015, 12:55 PM
#1863
So, just to confirm the ridiculousness here. From the flying site grant program:
"Recipients of this grant will be announced May the first of each year and it may be up to10% of the total improvement cost to the maximum of $3,000"
As stated earlier, their money was already going to fund the shade structures, the site control fencing, pilot stations, concrete pad, road improvement, equipment rental for site prep, etc. It was much more than $3000 total, so your po
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2...s-Policies.pdf
I'm having a hard time believing you were planning a $30k project in order to receive the $3,000 maximum. Now, even if you were requesting the $3,000 maximum, you already stated the club had 30 members. Now, even though your request was denied by the, 30 members x $100 would equal the $3,000 the AMA would have provided. Now, you're telling me the 30 members couldn't come up with or raise $100 each? $100! There's a hell of a lot clubs in this country with dues >= $100. Even if they are already paying dues a $100 special assessment to move the field, save the club, and continue to enjoy the hobby doesn't seem excessive to me.
"Recipients of this grant will be announced May the first of each year and it may be up to10% of the total improvement cost to the maximum of $3,000"
As stated earlier, their money was already going to fund the shade structures, the site control fencing, pilot stations, concrete pad, road improvement, equipment rental for site prep, etc. It was much more than $3000 total, so your po
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2...s-Policies.pdf
I'm having a hard time believing you were planning a $30k project in order to receive the $3,000 maximum. Now, even if you were requesting the $3,000 maximum, you already stated the club had 30 members. Now, even though your request was denied by the, 30 members x $100 would equal the $3,000 the AMA would have provided. Now, you're telling me the 30 members couldn't come up with or raise $100 each? $100! There's a hell of a lot clubs in this country with dues >= $100. Even if they are already paying dues a $100 special assessment to move the field, save the club, and continue to enjoy the hobby doesn't seem excessive to me.
11-22-2015, 12:58 PM
#1864
That's a ridiculous question -- of course not. It also proves nothing. What is true is that there are some clubs that must deal with them much more frequently than other clubs ... say for example ones located in NYC. But then again, you knew that right?
11-22-2015, 01:01 PM
#1865
I'll repeat since you don't seem to have read it the first time. The club money was already allocated to equipment rental for site prep, concrete pads for pits, site control measures (fencing), pilot stations, and the sunshades you took issue with. These alone were well more than $3000.
11-22-2015, 01:03 PM
#1866
Many clubs are willing to improvise, adapt, and overcome to enjoy their hobby. It's a shame more don't demonstrate those qualities.
11-22-2015, 01:03 PM
#1867
No, but then again on another issue when I did submit the request in writing and heard nothing in response you said I should have called and talked to them personally. Ironically that's what I did in this case, talked to the flying site guy himself. He gave me a flat "no way" if it wasn't open to all AMA members. I asked if I could submit it anyway, his response was something to the effect that "You can, but it's a waste of time, the answer will be no."
11-22-2015, 01:06 PM
#1868
The AMA either wants more field or it doesn't. Clearly they're not "that" interested in getting more fields. The club came up with everything else, including the land which is usually the toughest part, and they were tapped out. If you remember, I told you that the majority were older and on fixed incomes. Smacking them for an additional assessment beyond what they were already pledging wasn't an option.
11-22-2015, 01:07 PM
#1869
That's cute. You think that up all by yourself or did you have to look it up. It's one of your typical useless platitudes. Sounds great, but isn't much more than a magic wand solution.
11-22-2015, 01:15 PM
#1871
The AMA either wants more field or it doesn't. Clearly they're not "that" interested in getting more fields. The club came up with everything else, including the land which is usually the toughest part, and they were tapped out. If you remember, I told you that the majority were older and on fixed incomes. Smacking them for an additional assessment beyond what they were already pledging wasn't an option.
11-22-2015, 01:32 PM
#1872
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Aguanga,
CA
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11-22-2015, 01:33 PM
#1873
11-22-2015, 01:39 PM
#1874
Yeah, but it's kinda like sport. One can always count on him to find some way to twist language to make AMA the most perfect organization ever to grace the face of the earth. So much so that in his world we should probably bow to their greatness, genuflect any time one of the EC walks by, etc.
However, I tend to view the organization though pragmatic eyes. Probably a bunch of nice guys who try hard, but that doesn't mean they're infallible, nor does it mean they're particularly effective. Current registration issue a case in point, lawsuit against FAA another.
However, I tend to view the organization though pragmatic eyes. Probably a bunch of nice guys who try hard, but that doesn't mean they're infallible, nor does it mean they're particularly effective. Current registration issue a case in point, lawsuit against FAA another.
Last edited by franklin_m; 11-22-2015 at 01:41 PM.
