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Are you ready to register your aircraft?

Old 10-26-2015, 05:43 PM
  #576  
HoundDog
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Originally Posted by joancmigneault View Post
According to the Government, ALL RC aircraft are considered drones. If I register mine, I WANT AN "N" NUMBER just like thwe full size aircraft!!!!!!!!!!
What do U think your Quad, 40 size trainer, scale war bird of 40 Percenter is going to look like with a 12" high N Number on the side. May be Quads will be required to cary a large License Plate with the 12" numbers suspended below it.


This from a previous post of mine and this is what we can expect if model aviation is to be subject to Federail Aviation Regulations i.e. FAR's
Speaking of "N" Numbers this is only part of the FAR concerning them
We have a lot ot look forward to if the FAA ever gets serious. I believe they have been at this since around 2008 or
thereabouts. I would have just posted the URL but this is more fun.
PART 45—IDENTIFICATION AND REGISTRATION MARKING

45.27 Location of marks; nonfixed-wing aircraft.

(a) Rotorcraft. Each operator of a rotorcraft must display on that rotorcraft horizontally on both surfaces of the cabin, fuselage, boom, or tail the marks required by 45.23.
(b) Airships. Each operator of an airship must display on that airship the marks required by 45.23, horizontally on—
(1) The upper surface of the right horizontal stabilizer and on the under surface of the left horizontal stabilizer with the top of the marks toward the leading edge of each stabilizer; and
(2) Each side of the bottom half of the vertical stabilizer.
(c) Spherical balloons. Each operator of a spherical balloon must display the marks required by 45.23 in two places diametrically opposite and near the maximum horizontal circumference of that balloon.
(d) Nonspherical balloons. Each operator of a nonspherical balloon must display the marks required by 45.23 on each side of the balloon near its maximum cross section and immediately above either the rigging band or the points of attachment of the basket or cabin suspension cables.
(e) Powered parachutes and weight-shift-control aircraft. Each operator of a powered parachute or a weight-shift-control aircraft must display the marks required by 45.23 and 45.29(b)(2) of this part. The marks must be displayed in two diametrically opposite positions on the fuselage, a structural member, or a component of the aircraft and must be visible from the side of the aircraft.
[Doc. No. 2047, 29 FR 3223, Mar. 11, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 45-15, 48 FR 11392, Mar. 17, 1983; Amdt. 45-24, 69 FR 44863, July 27, 2004; Amdt. 45-25, 72 FR 52469, Sept. 14, 2007]
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45.29 Size of marks.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, each operator of an aircraft must display marks on the aircraft meeting the size requirements of this section.
(b) Height. Except as provided in paragraph (h) of this part, the nationality and registration marks must be of equal height and on—
(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:
(i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November 1, 1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before January 1, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed;
(ii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on a glider;
(iii) Marks at least 3 inches high may be displayed on an aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate under 21.191 (d), 21.191 (g), or 21.191 (i) of this chapter to operate as an exhibition aircraft, an amateur-built aircraft, or a light-sport aircraft when the maximum cruising speed of the aircraft does not exceed 180 knots CAS; and
(iv) Marks may be displayed on an exhibition, antique, or other aircraft in accordance with 45.22.
(2) Airships, spherical balloons, nonspherical balloons, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft must be at least 3 inches high; and
(3) Rotorcraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that rotorcraft displaying before April 18, 1983, marks required by 45.29(b)(3) in effect on April 17, 1983, and rotorcraft manufactured on or after April 18, 1983, but before December 31, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed.
(c) Width. Characters must be two-thirds as wide as they are high, except the number “1”, which must be one-sixth as wide as it is high, and the letters “M” and “W” which may be as wide as they are high.
(d) Thickness. Characters must be formed by solid lines one-sixth as thick as the character is high.
(e) Spacing. The space between each character may not be less than one-fourth of the character width.
(f) If either one of the surfaces authorized for displaying required marks under 45.25 is large enough for display of marks meeting the size requirements of this section and the other is not, full size marks must be placed on the larger surface. If neither surface is large enough for full-size marks, marks as large as practicable must be displayed on the larger of the two surfaces. If no surface authorized to be marked by 45.27 is large enough for full-size marks, marks as large as practicable must be placed on the largest of the authorized surfaces. However, powered parachutes and weight-shift-control aircraft must display marks at least 3 inches high.
(g) Uniformity. The marks required by this part for fixed-wing aircraft must have the same height, width, thickness, and spacing on both sides of the aircraft.
(h) After March 7, 1988, each operator of an aircraft penetrating an ADIZ or DEWIZ must display on that aircraft temporary or permanent nationality and registration marks at least 12 inches high.
[Doc. No. 2047, 29 FR 3223, Mar. 11, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 45-2, 31 FR 9863, July 21, 1966; Amdt. 45-9, 42 FR 41102, Aug. 15, 1977; Amdt. 45-13, 46 FR 48604, Oct. 1, 1981; Amdt. 45-15, 48 FR 11392, Mar. 17, 1983; Amdt. 45-17, 52 FR 34102, Sept. 9, 1987; 52 FR 36566, Sept. 30, 1987; Amdt. 45-24, 69 FR 44863, July 27, 2004; Amdt.45-25, 72 FR 52469, Sept. 14, 2007]
OH Crap here's the URL good luck.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...#se14.1.45_129
Old 10-26-2015, 05:53 PM
  #577  
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Who says if Quads and other Model Aircraft are required to display some sort of Identification registration, who says that the people bent on violating the law, will provide the correct registration number. Let's say that some one does crash and the owner ship is determined through a Registration or a Serial Number, a person that crashes will just say they sold the craft or it was stolen recently. What if a person doesn't register his craft but just displays a fake number. Crashes and walks away. Of course if they have a Smart phone the Feds can prove the Perp was in the Area when the crash happened. Ain't Technology Great?
Old 10-26-2015, 06:23 PM
  #578  
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http://www.aeriographer.com/tired-pe...w-really-isnt/
Old 10-26-2015, 06:30 PM
  #579  
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Someone register my beverage I might decide to drink it. I don't want to have to take responsibility for that. Registering, should make everyone safe! Just watch out on all public holidays, and avoid the flying fields they may setup stations for checking your registration.

Way out of proportion, but you get the idea.
Old 10-26-2015, 10:09 PM
  #580  
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Lmfao <--click it
Old 10-27-2015, 03:23 AM
  #581  
porcia83
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Originally Posted by wahoo View Post
Lmfao <--click it
Funny. I believe in another thread where a member here was going to go through the process of registering either a micro quad or a Air Hogs type of heli to prove some point. Doubt it ever happened though.
Old 10-27-2015, 04:03 AM
  #582  
porcia83
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http://gizmodo.com/you-can-now-buy-d...aig-1738884980

Most HO policies would provide the third party liability coverage anyway, but this is an interesting twist in that this policy will cover the damage to the "drone" as well. Obviously the premium and deductible might not make that a worthwhile proposition depending on the model.
Old 10-27-2015, 05:14 AM
  #583  
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
http://gizmodo.com/you-can-now-buy-d...aig-1738884980

Most HO policies would provide the third party liability coverage anyway, but this is an interesting twist in that this policy will cover the damage to the "drone" as well. Obviously the premium and deductible might not make that a worthwhile proposition depending on the model.
Well I can promise your AMA coverage would be worthless( not that it's great in the first place) just look where the guy's flying.

Mike
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Old 10-27-2015, 05:14 AM
  #584  
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If indeed that several writers here are correct, namely that "registration won't stop these incidents." This leads me to think that we've got a vested interest in doing our best to make sure registration does work, because if it doesn't, the only options left would likely be draconian in nature and impact the hobby even worse.
Old 10-27-2015, 05:19 AM
  #585  
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Hard to believe that this subject has drawn so many views / comments and is still continuing.

What will be, will be !
Old 10-27-2015, 05:19 AM
  #586  
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IMO it only takes a little education. A sticker on the box, and a flyer inside the box is all it takes. Most of the problems are clueless people who buy and fly with no regard to rules they never thought existed.
Old 10-27-2015, 05:25 AM
  #587  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
IMO it only takes a little education. A sticker on the box, and a flyer inside the box is all it takes. Most of the problems are clueless people who buy and fly with no regard to rules they never thought existed.
Here's the problem all the "stickers and flyers" in or on the box cannot fix stupid. People that are going to do stupid things will do so regardless.Not to mention that they actually would have to read them and I can assure you from first hand experience they don't .

Mike

Last edited by rcmiket; 10-27-2015 at 05:27 AM.
Old 10-27-2015, 05:35 AM
  #588  
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Most of the stupid is actually completely ignorant people thinking they are free to do as they want. I am not pretending a sticker would stop everybody, but it would eliminate the majority of the stupid stuff ignorant people do.
Old 10-27-2015, 05:37 AM
  #589  
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Probably a good time to remind folks about this. I'm sure everyone has already seen this, it's been around for a little while.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...ry/UA/#SmallUA

I've highlighted 3 areas that are germane to the discussion (emphasis added by me):

Registration is not required for model aircraft operated solely for hobby or recreational purposes. Guidelines for responsible hobby and recreational operations are available at http://www.faa.gov/uas/model_aircraft/.
Registration is required for all unmanned aircraft (UA) operated for non-hobby or non-recreational purposes.
Registration is also required for Government UA. All Aircraft owned by agencies, offices or subdivisions of: the United States (other than aircraft of the U.S. Armed Forces), the States, the District of Columbia, or a territory or possession of the United States are required to be registered.
If you look all the way at the bottom, you'll note that the page you're quoting was last updated on 21 August, which is well BEFORE the Secretary of Transportation's statement on 21 OCTOBER. Clearly the website has not been updated to reflect the more recent comments made by the Secretary. Here's the exact wording of Secretary Foxx's statement from October 21st:
"So today I want to share with you some additional measures we're taking to ensure unmanned aircraft are safely integrated into the national airspace.

We are going to require all operators [emphasis added] of drones to register their aircraft just like commercial drone operators do currently. Think of it this way. It may be okay to operate an off-road vehicle without registering it if you are using it on your own property. But if you intend to take it onto local streets or the highway, you are expected to register it and operate it safely to protect the public. The details of this new registration system will be developed by a task force consisting of government and a diverse group of stakeholders who will be working on a tight deadline to get this done.

First, registration will reinforce the need for unmanned aircraft users, including consumers and hobbyists [emphasis added], to operate their drones safely. It is hard to follow safety rules if you don't know what they are or that they apply to you. Registration gives operators the opportunity to learn the airspace rules before they fly and enjoy their devices safely.

Second, registration will help us enforce the rules [emphasis added] against those who operate unsafely by allowing the FAA to identify the operators of unmanned aircraft. We can take enforcement action as necessary to protect the airspace for everyone. If unmanned aircraft operators break the rules, there should be consequences. But there can be no accountability if a person breaking the rules can't be identified [emphasis added].

Registration will allow us to identify them."

Oh...and news this morning is that a drone in North Hollywood knocked out power to a large area of the city. I humbly submit that if registration doesn't fix the problem, as many have said, then perhaps we should consider that what might follow to fix the problem could be much more of an impact on the hobby than requiring a number on all our aircraft.
Old 10-27-2015, 05:40 AM
  #590  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
Most of the stupid is actually completely ignorant people thinking they are free to do as they want. I am not pretending a sticker would stop everybody, but it would eliminate the majority of the stupid stuff ignorant people do.

That's already in place with Blade( Horizon Hobby) and Yuneec both have "know before you fly" as the first item you see when you open the box and have done so since day one.
I cannot say what other manufactures do.

Mike
Old 10-27-2015, 05:56 AM
  #591  
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http://abc7.com/news/drone-hits-west...utage/1052589/

Here's the link to the Hollywood power outage in case anyone is interested..

Mike
Old 10-27-2015, 06:00 AM
  #592  
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Power lines are well below the 400 foot limit and I think the FAA has determined it cannot enforce safety that has nothing to do with protecting the NAS. Stuff like that needs to be handled on the local level.
Old 10-27-2015, 06:06 AM
  #593  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
Power lines are well below the 400 foot limit and I think the FAA has determined it cannot enforce safety that has nothing to do with protecting the NAS. Stuff like that needs to be handled on the local level.
Absolutely, unfortunately problems like this just reinforces their reasoning for wanting "control" and since we (traditional modelers) are lumped in with the drone bunch we'll suffer.

Mike
Old 10-27-2015, 06:27 AM
  #594  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
Here's the problem all the "stickers and flyers" in or on the box cannot fix stupid. People that are going to do stupid things will do so regardless.Not to mention that they actually would have to read them and I can assure you from first hand experience they don't .

Mike
I don't see the harm in trying to "lead them to the water". Give new pilots the opportunity to learn and decide for themselves if they want to register and take responsibility. From my personal experiences, the XBOX generation doesn't know of the AMA, radio controlled airfields, safety guidelines, etc. I say this because when a newcomer to my home sees my hangar, they ask where I fly? They are stunned these models exist and people actually have dedicated areas to fly safely.

It's easy to purchase a fixed wing foamie or a multirotor from a gas station. When the purchase of the new "toy" is made, I don't believe general public safety is at the top of the list for the majority of new pilots. A simple sticker or note located on the package can teach a newcomer to provide information affixed to the aircraft. Perhaps a few would use the internet and find RCU, AMA or other resources to learn more about the subjects. If the sticker on my pickup truck didn't say "diesel only", I can assure you my wife would fill it up with gasoline. She doesn't know the difference between the fuels or the reasoning behind each of them. The casual park flyer could use a little help knowing there is a WHOLE COMMUNITY of enthusiasts eager to share the joys of flying, safely.

And to answer the question of the OP. I think I have approximately 25 fixed wing aircraft. I don't own any multirotors. All of my aircraft have labels revealing my identity as required by the AMA. I think that is good enough.

Clear Skies To All

-PD
Old 10-27-2015, 07:58 AM
  #595  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
Absolutely, unfortunately problems like this just reinforces their reasoning for wanting "control" and since we (traditional modelers) are lumped in with the drone bunch we'll suffer.

Mike
And I'd argue, as viewed by government and the public's perspective, we've demonstrated we can't stop it ourselves.
Old 10-27-2015, 08:06 AM
  #596  
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Originally Posted by philakapd View Post
And to answer the question of the OP. I think I have approximately 25 fixed wing aircraft. I don't own any multirotors. All of my aircraft have labels revealing my identity as required by the AMA. I think that is good enough.
I too have my AMA number in/on everything I own that flies, right down to my Blade Nano QX, where it's written in fine sharpie inside the canopy. AMA is contending that registration should not be burdensome....

The weakness of their position is that right now, if I apply to AMA and get a number which I have to put on/in all my sUAS to comply with letter of law with respect to AMA rules, why would getting a number from the FAA and doing the same be any more burdensome? It's not. Hence the weakness of their position. Also, having multiple registration systems just invites chaos. Registration, in the context of the Secretary's remarks, is an inherently governmental function as the devices are all using the NAS...which is regulated by government.
Old 10-27-2015, 08:17 AM
  #597  
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to heck with what anyone says i wont register anything
Old 10-27-2015, 09:35 AM
  #598  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
".....If you look all the way at the bottom, you'll note that the page you're quoting was last updated on 21 August, which is well BEFORE the Secretary of Transportation's statement on 21 OCTOBER. Clearly the website has not been updated to reflect the more recent comments made by the Secretary. Here's the exact wording of Secretary Foxx's statement from October 21st:


..."
Right, which is exactly why I said it's been around a while. The date was clearly indicated in the quoted story.

It's doubtful registration will stop ANY drone incident, just as registering a gun or a car hasn't stopped bad things from happening with them either. It's a feel good bandaid on a much larger issue. Even stiff penalties probably won't stop someone either..again look at guns, and even drugs. At the end of the day, nothing will stop someone who is intent on doing what they want. Significant legal consequences, civil and criminal, need to handed out when appropriate. Hopefully that will prove to be a deterrent to that specific person, and serve as an example to other thinking about it.
Old 10-27-2015, 09:49 AM
  #599  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
I too have my AMA number in/on everything I own that flies, right down to my Blade Nano QX, where it's written in fine sharpie inside the canopy. AMA is contending that registration should not be burdensome....

The weakness of their position is that right now, if I apply to AMA and get a number which I have to put on/in all my sUAS to comply with letter of law with respect to AMA rules, why would getting a number from the FAA and doing the same be any more burdensome? It's not. Hence the weakness of their position. Also, having multiple registration systems just invites chaos. Registration, in the context of the Secretary's remarks, is an inherently governmental function as the devices are all using the NAS...which is regulated by government.
I don't think it is the work required to register the model that people are complaining about. It's the fact that the government knows you have one, and they may come knocking at your door asking you to turn over the models.

That and the fact this will not do any good, and so the FAA will go the next step which will not be so easy.
Old 10-27-2015, 09:55 AM
  #600  
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Right, which is exactly why I said it's been around a while. The date was clearly indicated in the quoted story.

It's doubtful registration will stop ANY drone incident, just as registering a gun or a car hasn't stopped bad things from happening with them either. It's a feel good bandaid on a much larger issue. Even stiff penalties probably won't stop someone either..again look at guns, and even drugs. At the end of the day, nothing will stop someone who is intent on doing what they want. Significant legal consequences, civil and criminal, need to handed out when appropriate. Hopefully that will prove to be a deterrent to that specific person, and serve as an example to other thinking about it.
On pt 1...yes, you pointed it out that it's been around a while, but I think it would have been more accurate for you to point out that the points you emphasized were all based on documents / postings that preceded the most recent statement by DOT Secretary, which makes them less reliable as indicators of what the future holds for our hobby.

On pt 2 ... don't necessarily disagree. But the optics of the situation here is that the DOT/FAA have to demonstrate that lesser measures have failed before they move forward with more restrictive measures. I'd argue that they tried education, and that has not resulted in sufficient improvement. Now they're trying registration (in some form yet TBD) in conjunction with education. If that works, great, but if it doesn't, then they've demonstrated that lesser measures have failed and thus can justify additional actions in the future.

Last edited by franklin_m; 10-27-2015 at 10:01 AM. Reason: typo

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