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Wiped out! 14 AMA fields in VA MD DC

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Wiped out! 14 AMA fields in VA MD DC

Old 12-27-2015, 07:53 AM
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kdunlap
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Default Wiped out! 14 AMA fields in VA MD DC

Happy news from AMA about our fields in and around DC. Fields that have been operating for decades problem free.

AMA. Get moving.

From: Jay Marsh, AMA Vice President District IV <[email protected]>
Subject: DC SFRA is a NO FLY ZONE

My Dear Clubs in and around the DC SFRA,
Let me first say Merry Christmas to one and all and I hope Santa was good to you.
The FAA has requested we stop operations at our AMA fields that are inside the DC Special Flight Rules Area for the DC area called the DC SFRA. The letter attached is from Ray Stinchcomb our District IV Government Relations Coordinator with an explanation of the action by the FAA.
You will not need to close the field, only cease operations temporarily, no flying of anything, until mid-January when we expect to get permission to continue operations for all fields.
By the FAA’s count there are 36 flying sites within the DC SFRA. AMA can account for 14 of those. Please pass the word to the Drone User Groups that they need to stop operations too. The FAA did indicate they were going to use law enforcement to enforce this.
One of our AVPs, Rick Moreland, will be contacting you offering to help find fields for our members to use in the interim. I have CC all of your addresses and I hope you will contact each other and work together to help each other and make this as painless as possible. Sorry folks, but we have to comply with the FAA.
Effective as soon as you can please post this suggested sign at your flying site.
THIS IS A NO FLY ZONE
UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE THE FAA HAS REQUESTED THAT ALL FLYING OPERATIONS BE DISCONTINUED.
THIS IS A NO FLY ZONE
PLEASE CONTACT ???? Club Officer ???? FOR FURTHER INFORMATION
Sorry to have to give you this news but it is necessary and I promise the District IV staff and AMA will continue to resolve this as soon as possible. If you have any questions don’t hesitate to contact me.
Old 12-27-2015, 07:57 AM
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"Wiped Out" doesn't seem like it applies here. Your letter seems to indicate the closure is a temporary measure. Am I missing something, or did you not read it?
Old 12-27-2015, 08:02 AM
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porcia83
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Nah...why bother with reading and telling the whole story. Sometimes it's just better to vent than look at the big picture. It's easier to just tell part of the story, and then blame the AMA as if they dropped the ball. Chances are the OP has absolutely no idea what the AMA has been doing. It's already been discussed in several other threads but another one can't hurt.
Old 12-27-2015, 08:36 AM
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kdunlap
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When was the last time 14 fields were closed and a TFR was not involved? How's about never? What's the response? Everything will be OK by mid January. Really? Perhaps Porcia you need to look around. In between your numerous posts and you might see that the number of achievements model aviation has racked up in the drone fight is close to 0. Just wait until your field is closed. Your tone will change.
Old 12-27-2015, 08:44 AM
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What confuses me is why the FAA is now enforcing the DC SFRA/FRZ which both have been in effect since 2001.

Last edited by Silent-AV8R; 12-27-2015 at 11:14 AM. Reason: thai-poh
Old 12-27-2015, 09:05 AM
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porcia83
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Originally Posted by kdunlap View Post
When was the last time 14 fields were closed and a TFR was not involved? How's about never? What's the response? Everything will be OK by mid January. Really? Perhaps Porcia you need to look around. In between your numerous posts and you might see that the number of achievements model aviation has racked up in the drone fight is close to 0. Just wait until your field is closed. Your tone will change.
Uh huh...I'm sure it would. I can however tell you that I would explain the whole situation rather than putting up a clickbaity thread post,and then lay some type of blame at the AMA's feet. That's a cop out and weak....sorry. What are you personally doing, in addition to the affected clubs? Do you realize how difficult it is to deal with the feds...what do you think the AMA has the ability to do that they haven't been doing to date?
Old 12-27-2015, 11:45 AM
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Granpooba
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Just shaking my head in disbelief and do not even have a comment !
Old 12-27-2015, 07:17 PM
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Blame these people!!!
DOT Cheif Anthony Foxx, then Mayor of Charlotte, North Carolina was nominated by President Barack Obama on April 29, 2013.

Jeh Charles Johnson was sworn in on December 23, 2013 as the fourth Secretary of Homeland Security.

Michael Peter Huerta confirmed as Administrator on January 7, 2013.

and Lastly Barack Obama 44th U.S. President.

These are ultimately the people responsible for the what is happening to the RC Community.



Old 12-27-2015, 07:32 PM
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kdunlap
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Porcia what you continually refuse to accept in this thread and others is that AMA is an Assiciation that we pay to represent us. It is an Association and not a charity. It has lost nearly every major battle in an Epic Fail when it comes to its core mission of protecting and promoting model aviation. Now my field CASA field is closed with a "Merry Christmas." Again, $9M later what do we have to show for it? What I have to show for it is an empty field on top of the Montgomery County landfil where I can't fly anymore. We followed the rules.
Old 12-27-2015, 07:37 PM
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The just "temporary till mid January" sounds like BS. "Hi, I'am from the government and I'am here to help you." It's like when a government (state, local or federal) imposes a "temporary tax", and somehow most become permanent. We'll see on this, but it doesn't look good. If you like your doctor, you can keep him, your field is only closed temporarily, the checks in the mail, I'll only put it in a little, etc.
Old 12-27-2015, 09:40 PM
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porcia83
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Originally Posted by BobH View Post
Blame these people!!!
DOT Cheif Anthony Foxx, then Mayor of Charlotte, North Carolina was nominated by President Barack Obama on April 29, 2013.

Jeh Charles Johnson was sworn in on December 23, 2013 as the fourth Secretary of Homeland Security.

Michael Peter Huerta confirmed as Administrator on January 7, 2013.

and Lastly Barack Obama 44th U.S. President.

These are ultimately the people responsible for the what is happening to the RC Community.


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Old 12-27-2015, 09:49 PM
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porcia83
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Originally Posted by kdunlap View Post
Porcia what you continually refuse to accept in this thread and others is that AMA is an Assiciation that we pay to represent us. It is an Association and not a charity. It has lost nearly every major battle in an Epic Fail when it comes to its core mission of protecting and promoting model aviation. Now my field CASA field is closed with a "Merry Christmas." Again, $9M later what do we have to show for it? What I have to show for it is an empty field on top of the Montgomery County landfil where I can't fly anymore. We followed the rules.
I'm sorry I just won't agree with you here and in other threads. I think you're wrong, I think you're incorrect, and I think you want to blame someone or something, and the AMA is who you blame. It's an absolutely preposterous step for you to take in blaming them, not sure how you will get me to believe otherwise. It's too bad they can't do everything within their powers to make you and your club happy, but the fact is that they are dealing with issues far bigger than just you, and your club. They can't waive a magic wand and get congress and the FAA to do what they want them to do, it's really as simple as that. They have tried in the past, and will continue to try in the future doing what they can to help the entire hobby, as well as you and your field. If they fail as bad as you say they do, and have, then by all means, step up to the place and get involved and you can run for office and see just how easy it is to deal with the govt.

I've seen the AMA get blamed for everything under the sun, this one is a stretch.
Old 12-28-2015, 02:52 AM
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Without the AMA kdunlap and all his friends would have been done flying LONG ago! We need to keep the real enemy in our sights, or we may shoot ourselves in the foot, like this thread did.
Old 12-28-2015, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by kdunlap View Post
When was the last time 14 fields were closed and a TFR was not involved? How's about never? What's the response? Everything will be OK by mid January. Really? Perhaps Porcia you need to look around. In between your numerous posts and you might see that the number of achievements model aviation has racked up in the drone fight is close to 0. Just wait until your field is closed. Your tone will change.
If you want a TFR then violate this request - you will get one.
Old 12-28-2015, 06:23 AM
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kdunlap
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Don't want to debate this endlessly so let me summarize my points.

AMA's purpose is to promote model aviation.
AMA is a for profit business and not a charity.
AMA's budget is $9M per year.
AMA salaries total $2M per year.
AMA pays for and conducts advocacy activities in Washington.
Since the "drone wars" began AMA has lost nearly every battle to protect model aviation. Drones faired much better.
The bottom line is that members have the right to comment on how effectively our dues money is being used to adhere to the AMA mission statement.

As to the validity of the comment on my field being closed had it not been for AMA I am willing to say that AMA has benefited model aviation in the past. I paid my first dues when I was in 8th grade and mowed lawns to get the money. So, yes I do get the value of AMA.

However, all of that is ancient history. Today's fight is about drones and how model aviation is served by the dues dollars we pay.

I love all the nostalgia and the fond memories of when AMA was a mom and pop shop and I mowed lawns to pay my dues.

Today we fund a multimillion dollar operation that has lost focus on its mission and promise to members.

Hope your field doesn't share the same fate as mine.
Old 12-28-2015, 06:40 AM
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porcia83
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Originally Posted by kdunlap View Post
Don't want to debate this endlessly so let me summarize my points.

AMA's purpose is to promote model aviation. They do, just not to your perfect satisfaction.
AMA is a for profit business and not a charity. 100% incorrect, but this might be why you are so angry. Once you realize you are so completely wrong here, you might understand more. Please...look into this further.
AMA's budget is $9M per year. Wrong, again.
AMA salaries total $2M per year. Wrong again, but even if it was right, so what? Do you work for free?
AMA pays for and conducts advocacy activities in Washington. Thank god, you're finally right!
Since the "drone wars" began AMA has lost nearly every battle to protect model aviation. Drones faired much better. Back to wrong, model aviation is "safe"
The bottom line is that members have the right to comment on how effectively our dues money is being used to adhere to the AMA mission statement. Sure do, they can even rant about it on a website, this helps how?

As to the validity of the comment on my field being closed had it not been for AMA I am willing to say that AMA has benefited model aviation in the past. I paid my first dues when I was in 8th grade and mowed lawns to get the money. So, yes I do get the value of AMA. Great, than give them your full support rather than try to blame them for something out of their control. Also, do some homework on what kind of group they are (hint, NOT a for profit group), and realize all they bring to the table on behalf of all members, not just you.

However, all of that is ancient history. Today's fight is about drones and how model aviation is served by the dues dollars we pay. There is no fight...it's over. The "horrible" end result of the fight is that as of now, you have to register. Big whoop.

I love all the nostalgia and the fond memories of when AMA was a mom and pop shop and I mowed lawns to pay my dues.

Today we fund a multimillion dollar operation that has lost focus on its mission and promise to members. Says you because you lost your field. They do just fine, but of course can always do better for the other 180,000 members out there.

Hope your field doesn't share the same fate as mine.
Nothing like doubling down when you're wrong. Love the part about not wanting to debate, guess you just want to have everyone agree with you blindly. Good thing they don't. It sucks that your field is shut down for now, blaming the AMA and going off on wild rants about them being a for profit entity isn't helping in the least bit.
Old 12-28-2015, 01:16 PM
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This is the rest of the email that has not been posted as yet

Please note that if you possess a FAA Certificate (Pilots License) you are subject to adverse action on that as well

After all Aircraft are now Aircraft no distinction for Models

To all model aircraft clubs with flying sites within 30 nautical miles of Washington, DC.
The FAA has provided the AMA with clear guidance that all unmanned aircraft operations including model aircraft are prohibited in the Washington, DC Special Flight Rules Area (SFRA).
This is based on 14 CFR 93 (aviation regulations) and 49 USC 40103 (Federal law).
Persons operating aircraft within the SFRA are subject to civil penalties and or criminal charges.
Now that we have said that, the AMA District 4 Government Relations Committee is now working on the issue.
Any further operations may compromise our efforts to work with the FAA. The issue is not as simple as it looks since the Washington, DC SFRA has been designated as "National Defense Airspace", but the FAA has been working on our behalf to obtain the required authorizations.
We will be meeting with the FAA next week to determine several things:
· When can we expect the authorizations?
· What will the clubs need to do to get the authorizations?
· What limitations if any will be imposed?

Please do not contact the FAA on your own, the District 4 Government Relations Committee will keep you informed and multiple calls to the FAA may only add confusion. If you have issues or comments, please contact any member of the District 4 Government Relations Committee instead.
Remember these points:
· We have every reason to believe that this is a temporary situation
· The FAA has already been working on our behalf with the other federal agencies that have to concur with the authorizations.
· Operating a model aircraft within the SFRA could result in your arrest.
· If you are one of us who holds an FAA issued Airman's certificate, the FAA could take certificate action.
· We will keep you informed.


We will be providing an update as soon after the meeting next week as possible.
Old 12-28-2015, 04:34 PM
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Maybe We, as a SIG need to aproach the govt. the way scientology defeated the IRS. They launched 20,000 lawsuits and the IRS blinked and gave them recognition as a religion. All past tax debts, over 10 billion were wiped and they recieved tax exempt status. I'll put money where My mouth is if We as a SIG start a fund me account and find some hungry lawyers looking to make names for themselves and bury the FAA in lawsuits and endless paperwork. Maybe We could even get recognized by the IRS as a religion and get tax exempt status for everything we spend on what we fly! Flying jets at 199 mph is My religion!
Old 12-28-2015, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by F-16 viperman View Post
Maybe We, as a SIG need to aproach the govt. the way scientology defeated the IRS. They launched 20,000 lawsuits and the IRS blinked and gave them recognition as a religion. All past tax debts, over 10 billion were wiped and they recieved tax exempt status. I'll put money where My mouth is if We as a SIG start a fund me account and find some hungry lawyers looking to make names for themselves and bury the FAA in lawsuits and endless paperwork. Maybe We could even get recognized by the IRS as a religion and get tax exempt status for everything we spend on what we fly! Flying jets at 199 mph is My religion!
If Porcia really has legal expertise, maybe could help us get the ball rolling? Then We, as a SIG woulg get recognized as an official CBO. Then section 336 would officially come into action for us.

Last edited by F-16 viperman; 12-28-2015 at 04:41 PM.
Old 12-28-2015, 05:03 PM
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porcia83
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Hey I like that move, your comments were so great the first time, you had to quote them yourself after thinking of a knee slappin zinger two minutes later! . Sick burn bro! But seriously, is this thing on? Tap Tap?

I tried to do some of my special pro bono work a while back, i'll be darned if I wasn't attacked even though I tried to help some folks out with getting their message out ( a message I didn't even agree with). They sorta listened to some of it later, but then...pfft. Only one freebie here, sorry. The good news though is that the real pros are already on the case, folks that specialize in this kind of thing. None carry wands that can be waived to make everything go their way, so...folks need to understand that.

Now, funny you mention a CBO. Of course so many here have been ranting about the AMA and how bad they are, etc etc etc, and the need for different leaders...etc...hoo man it's hard to believe they have been around for 80 years eh? Anyway, nothing will really come from all the venting, nobody will ever do anything to strike out on their own and try to get their own group going. Just to easy to sit back, plug away at a keyboard, and pine away for the past. Those were the days my friend....right? Guess who is doing something about it though? They already have dozens of loosely structured networks of like minded people, and are building their infrastructure as you read this. The paperwork for non-profit status is all but done. Impressive for a group with "members" in the low teens (numerically, not age). Interesting to see that develop, while here we basically see folks wishing and wanting for something in the past, and doing nothing meaningful to affect change in the future. Gotta want it bad enough I guess.
Old 12-28-2015, 05:29 PM
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I was talking about the AMA getting official CBO status so Sec 336 would apply to us as a SIG. No offense intended. Just wondered if You had any helpful ideas on how to get 20000 or more lawsuits going. how much Cost? per member.
Old 12-28-2015, 05:58 PM
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porcia83
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Originally Posted by F-16 viperman View Post
I was talking about the AMA getting official CBO status so Sec 336 would apply to us as a SIG. No offense intended. Just wondered if You had any helpful ideas on how to get 20000 or more lawsuits going. how much Cost? per member.
No offense taken...honestly. The AMA currently has a case pended at the appeal level, it was stuck there unable to really go forward as part of the allegations plead was that the FAA was promulgating rules/laws when they were specifically directed by congress to do no such thing. Once the decision was made last week by the FAA to force registration, that gave the AMA something to use as a specific example, and that case should start trudging along now. I also heard through what might be a weak grapevine that another case was filed last week by a single party, not sure if it was just for him, or looking for some type of class action status. My understanding was that AMA counsel was involved in that, but I don't know if the AMA was technically involved in it. Costs for actions like this....easily into the 6 figures. If likeminded folks want in on the deal, they each contribute to the cause and hope for a good outcome. Me...I would have suggested more talking. Find some common ground, shoot for the moon and accept far less, and not continue to complain via press releases. There is something to be said for quite behind the scenes diplomacy. It's usually a heck of a lot cheaper, and sometimes yields the same results.
Old 12-28-2015, 07:20 PM
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kdunlap
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Porcia83 you might have missed the IRS form 990 that I posted in another thread in which you participated. Since you are clearly concerned about the facts here they are again in all their glory.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...2&d=1450153885


AMA budget $9.2 Million dollars
AMA salaries $2.57 million dollars

Facts are such a stubborn thing especially when they are in black and white on a government form. -Which is publicly available. So how am I wrong? In my post I said 9m and it is 9.2m. I said 2m and it is 2.57m. You should have blamed me for under reporting. I wanted to give AMA the benefit of the doubt.

On a technical basis if you review the AMA 990 you will see that in most years revenue=expenses. So, since they file as a 503, they are not for profit. But they do need to earn revenue to cover their expenses. They needed to earn 9m in the last year filed. This is not a trivial amount of money.
Old 12-28-2015, 07:30 PM
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porcia83
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On a "technical basis" you were wrong on all accounts, but at least you owned up to it, so kudos. I'm sure the AMA is relieved to see they are no longer categorized as a for profit business. You might have single-highhandedly given a few folks at the EC a heart attack!
Old 12-28-2015, 07:52 PM
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Speaking of Facts when will we discuss how to help kdunlap and the others affected by the intent of the OP

I have friends who won't get to fly on New Years day and have done so for many many years

Let's try to focus on the real issue here

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