porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Well that's a good step, at least on the right direction. You've said in the past that the AMA was just big insurance scam, so this is a move in a positive manner. I don't think anyone has ever said the AMA were big fish in any pond, but they certainly are the biggest when it comes to advocating for modelers, both "traditional" folks, and ones that just signed up today to fly MR/Drone. As I said before, perhaps it's a question of expectations. Those with realistic expectations are probably best situated to deal with these issues that we face as a hobby. Seems some feel like the AMA should yield more power or authority, or clout. Perhaps they will in the future, the NRA certainly wasn't a powerhouse overnight.

Sport_Pilot

But you get insurance and much more from the AMA. The 5 bucks you give to the FAA only gets your name on their list. A list you can do nothing with but the FAA apparently value hightly

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

I think he has been away from the AMA for some time now, and might not know what is really involved in the membership, and what the dues go for, and what the membership gets us compared to the FAA reg. Now, it's fine if he's been able to fly and still have fun without needing the AMA membership, I suspect there are more people out there like this that fly and have fun without needing a club or AMA membership, more power to them if that's the case.

rcmiket

Lets compare the AMA to NAR (National Association of Rocketry) along the same lines as the AMA but for Model Rocketry. While we only have a membership of 6553 .they offer primary liability insurance ( and other benefits) along with the ability to get lawmakers to change restrictions pertaining to High Powered Rocketry. A small group as ours can self police ( High Powered Certification). Something else pretty cool is national events are moved around the country making it easier for members to attend. As far as education they are involved heavily on every level. Our magazine is also quarterly.
Maybe the AMA should look at how we do things. I not saying the NAR has all the answers but every organization could stand to look at what others do.

http://www.nar.org/

Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Great comparison. How long have they been around? What are their dues? What is the primary insurance coverage affocrded? What exactly were those restrictions this important agency were able to get changed by the federal govt. Self police you say, hmm..I wonder who else does that? National events you say...in different places? So it's easy for folks to attend in Florida and then California, as opposed to one location? Doesn't seem easier to me at all, seems like it might be hit or miss in different locations, as opposed to one location that is geared towards handling events at all levels. But yes, I see the similarities between an org with 6500 members and almost 200,000. Both are membership based. At that point everything else is different.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

So about as apples-to-apples as your AMA and the NRA comparison?

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Ya, upon further review, perhaps the AMA is doing o/k on their own.

AMA been around far longer than NAR has......and already there seems to be a discrepancy with the membership numbers. Yours are higher than their own website...but if the AMA did that!

Founded in 1957, the NAR is the oldest and largest spacemodeling organization in the world with over 5900 members and 165 affiliated clubs across the U.S. Not sure where your numbers are coming from, might want to alert those folks at the NAR to update their website. 185,000 AMA members versus 5900. 165 clubs versus about 2400? So far, not even close

That insurance coverage. One little detail you left out there....

The NAR policy has a $5,000 deductible per Bodily Injury & Property Damage Claim. Members are personally responsible for payment of the first $1,000 of the deductible. If a member is responsible for more than one claim in any NAR policy period, they will be responsible for the entire amount of the NAR deductible. In the event of a claim filing, failure to pay the deductible may be cause for the loss of membership benefits. OUCH! Not only $1,000 deductible, but it could be $5,000.


Another interesting factoid:

My Section often has non-members attending our launch. Are they covered by NAR insurance when they fly with us? Sometimes. Generally non-members are not covered by NAR insurance. To obtain coverage, they must join and become members of the NAR. However, your Section’s coverage and your individual NAR members’ coverage remains, and they are covered by the policy.

So they let non members fly at clubs along with dues paying members? Won't find that happening at an AMA club.

Well, how about dues.....another surprise! It's more expensive that the AMA.

SR (26 and Older) Join - 1 Year ($79) - Magazine First Class.

So more expensive dues, a loss deductible of at least $1,000, but maybe $5,000, less clubs to fly at, and a roving national event that could be anywhere across the country. How about all the other AMA benefits...does the NAR offer scholarships, or a national museaum, or say, site assistance? Does it have a trailer with rocket sims that travels across the country? How about local representation, in addition to national ones? Oh, the list is endless, but you get the picture.

I doubt the NAR folks are as busy as those at the AMA.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Ya, pretty on par. You're not much for context are you? The way you and others speak you expect the AMA to have the power and authority and gravitas as the NRA, and complain so bitterly when things don't happen the way they do for the NRA. If I use AFLCIO, UAW, or perhaps the NEA would you grasp the concept better?

But ya, feel free to chime in on the NAR versus AMA comparison from Mike above. Seem like an apples to apples comparison? That's a rhetorical question......

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Did I say those things?.....REALLY? (HINT.......nope)

And you want to talk CONTEXT? LOL

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kCDPlU6ioZU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Wait, you're dizzy yet again? That's not good, it appears chronic.

Say, did you get your ballot in the mail today? Exciting times eh? Did you send it in yet? Wonder if your guy Tiano has picked up any votes this week with his responses to questions? Looks like the AMA was busy mailing out the ballots this week.

Does the NAR have elections too? I looked for that info on the NAR website, but couldn't find it. A dead link , and some spelling errors. Not really impressed so far.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

My guy Tiano? Where did I ever say he was my guy? Wait...I didn't....you just lie.

Not sure, I am not a member, nor do I know anything about them. Apparently you are dizzy as well as it was Mike that brought up NAR. I know it's hard, but you can keep up if you try.

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

You're trying to hard again, let's keep focused and keep the antics to a minimum. I don't lie, and I never claimed you brought up the NAR..I merely asked you questions about them. Am I only allowed to ask about topics you brought up? Did you find Mike's comparison on point and even remotely relevant, or will we give that a pass since well, you know.

I know you didn't bring up the ballot, but as I've indicated the AMA was busy mailing them out this week. Did you get yours. I guess Tiano is not your man, sure seemed like he was a while back. CHANGE and all, no samo samo. Any decision yet? Who are you leaning towards? I read Tougas's statement again, the first three lines were a clear play to the "traditional" folks, whoever they may be! He so effortlessly distilled down all the issues facing the hobby today to two issues...non AMA members, who are of course MR users. Hey, everybody has to have a bad guy to blame. Oh he's taking a page out of someone else's book too, a MR/Drone "truther" if you will. Where are they all he asks, I'm waiting for the part where he denies there are any events being held, and for good measure might even mock the use of cash prizes for those non events. Meanwhile in the same breath he was noting that under 10% of the membership identify as primary MR/Drone users. 190k members...so about 19k members...heck lets say 15k. Wonder if he could answer questions about the magazine or the drone regs, or heck any of the ones already asked here. Perhaps he'll show up here at some point, or the others will....but I wouldn't bet on it. Wonder why.

Make sure to get those ballots in and all of the write in candidate's names spelled perfectly! They must be received by 11-8-16!

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

I told you in another thread that Frank was not my man, yet you post the above. Lie, untruth? Whatever you call it, it is dishonest and speaks to your character.

It's called context. You constantly use things out of context to try and prove your opinion "right" Gets old
I will address other posts as I see fit, you continue to bring them into our discussion to deflect and distract. Petty

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Ah, our old friend context, I know him well. O/K, we've clearly established Frank is NOT your man. No interest in sharing who your man is? Just curious, contextually. With the ballots here I'm thinking things would be heating up. Candidates getting out, pressing the flesh. Ads on TV, radio, podcasts, friends FB pages etc. Thought it was nice for the AMA to have printed out the candidates statements, more work for them!

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

I might vote for, "None of the above". If nobody deems themselves worthy.

Seriously, we've danced this dance before, yet you keep asking....

Quid quo pro bro.

Astro

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Well...at this point I'll tell you who won't get it. Tiano is obviously out, his responses in this forum are at this point, frightening. He lacks any semblance of restraint, has not shown an ability to answer specific questions about the AMA with what appears to be an understanding of how they operate, and has actually refused to share any specific plans on how to change things (recall the refusal to share the ideas on generating revenue when asked). Frank has had several leadership positions within the AMA and abandoned them without a full explanation. In short I don't find him remotely qualified for this role in any way.

Tougas is out too. The whole drone bad, non ama pilot thing is a turn off. I don't like the simplistic blame game he's playing. He certainly has put his time in though with different roles within the AMA. I like the way he responded to questions in past elections, and also how he responded when he lost. I think he's a class act, and principled as well, I just don't share his view, but appreciate how he handles himself.

So it's Hanson or Williams. I've briefly met and spoken to both, both are more than qualified. Hanson would transition easily and hit the ground running. I would expect no systematic change in direction. Would he be as effective in the new role as the older one, who knows. Williams I think is the dark horse. Certainly qualified and I believe capable..already a DVP in for D2...and is an active modeler. I've sat back and watched him under pressure at an event recently and was impressed with how he handled himself. I'm hoping to meet him this weekend and spend some more time getting his thoughts on issues. He is attending the NEAT fair in NY....a great event. Goes without saying these are my own opinions.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Just to play devils' advocate, I don't recall seeing specific plans from ANY of the candidates, not here, not anywhere.

Astro

franklin_m

I personally don't mind FT's responses. But I'm a fan of shaking up the system from time to time.

Sport_Pilot

Same o Same o works for me. They have been extremely successful. Except for the registration thing, but I do not believe that is over.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Well, Tiano has made references to change, taking back the ama etc etc. When pressed for specifics, he gives none. Claims to not know enough, or just says he won't tell. At best the responses are platitudes. It's not just him either, it's common with folks running for office.

Tougas definitely references change, specifically going backwards, to a different time...going back to a focus on traditional models... whatever that means. He says absolutely nothing about how he will do this.

As for Williams and Hanson, Im not looking for statements of any real change...why would they want that?. If anything they have a better pulse check on what the majority of members want, and that is no drastic change, imo. So I doubt we'll see anything from them talking about big changes, rather they are talking about moving forward and enhancing the AMA, not going backwards to a time already passed by.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

This is somewhat surprising coming from a guy who espouses leadership traits born out of military service...honor, dignity, courage etc etc. Did threats, foul language, intimidation, and bulky tactics become part of leadership skills? This would serve the ama at this point in time?

I get the while shake the tree concept, don't disagree in general, but really. My sense is that the anger and frustration with the ama trumps the havoc that would surely come from him getting in office. Do you just want to see it all blown up (figuratively) to settle a score? Would his style of leadership and communication fare well dealing with the feds? Then again he seems to feel the position has no oversight or authority, or ability to shape agendas. Perhaps he looks at it as a great opportunity to further his multiple businesses.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Yup! The results will show this to be the case.

rcmiket

Be interesting to see the final vote counts when it's all said and done. The membership participation on voting is pretty low.

Mike

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

You have a crystal ball, know that history repeats itself, or are you relying on the same o same o apathetic AMA membership and 16% voter turnout?

Astro

rcmiket

This could go either way. The happy camper side vs unhappy camper.side. The ones in the middle who are never involved anyway could care less.That's the bottom line in this election.


Mike