Speed , I believe Franklin already laid out the case that the AMA championed the language of "within the programming" in the original #336 , and since Hanson was at the helm at the time the responsibility lies with him .

Going back to my Titanic parallel , although Captain Smith may not have had his hand actually on the controls when the iceberg was struck , it was ultimately his responsibility that the ship sank .

Spin, spin and more spin.
I never said I had any authority, nor did I try to exercise any authority. I will say it one more time for those who are obtuse. I could care less if anyone flies over 400' (I am not the rule maker, nor do I have the authority to enforce them). I don't think that flying over 400' is any more dangerous today than it has been for over 80 years (sad that the AMA let this happen to us, as it is complete and utter nonsense!). I do however, take notice when you constantly preach and praise the almighty AMA, except when it is convenient for you to break the law. Pretty simple, really. I find it a little megalomaniacal, or at the least egomaniacal, both of which I detest immensely.

As far as Hanson telling members to fly as they always have....I find (found) that a little disturbing as well, when the Feds are the ones who make the rules. NOT a way to gain any favor whatsoever with the Feds, just like you thumbing your nose at the law on a public forum. Not good for the rest of us, but if it suits you, (and Rich Hanson), more power to ya!

Astro

Rich Hanson and the AMA conducted a multi-year fraud on the RC flying community with their mandatory membership scam.
The FAA came out publicly and refuted it after Hanson went public with the claim in his op-ed in The Hill. Until then, the FAA
had no reason to address it other than on a case-by-case basis when asked.

If someone wants to look it up, then-director of the FAA UAS office of Integration, Earl Lawrence, goes into the background of
it all in his remarks at the 2018 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. Basically, AMA is run by lying weasels who tried to
exploit the fact that Congress never defined the question of membership. That same group is still in charge.

Those who keep going with the AMA line are like broken coo coo clocks reporting the wrong time over and over again. Like I said,
why are we still talking about this? Look at the result. Wouldn't all that wasted time and energy spent on forced AMA membership
have been better spent on the drone question and a stategy for a realistic weight-based exemption for non-advanced model aircraft?
Drones from day one guaranteed that some form of regulation was inevitable.

Again, what mandatory membership scam? He only references with words like “such as”. Please list some quotes that show Hanson making such demands.

And I’m sorry, but if anyone is to blame for the phrase “within the programming” its the FAA and Congress. If anyone believes that Hanson didn’t run his article or statements through the lawyers first, and that they told him that that phrase meant anything different than what he stated, well then there’s no hope of having any further, rational discussion on the subject.

I suggest that those of you who have such hatred and vitriol for the AMA leave and form your own CBO. Because it’s obvious all of you can do it so much better.....

R_Strowe

The only problem is you may be right. When you look at how badly things have gone for the AMA in the past four or five years when dealing with the FAA and Congress, it's not a stretch to say that might have some merit

Of course , the same could be said for you , if you have such "hatred and vitriol" for your fellow AMA members discussing what they believe to be the cause of the AMA's sinking ship , maybe it's time for YOU to jump overboard and walk away from these discussions here that obviously so upset you


And , before ya go gettin all mouthy with me about the "sinking ship" , please tell me which year in the past several that our AMA has actually had a net membership gain VS decline ......

PS , remember this post Mr. Strowe ? Where Franklin details a 14% loss in membership dues for the 2008/2018 financial situation and you attacked him for that ? Tell me , is it REALLY Franklin's fault that we can't even keep our present membership numbers much less attract new blood ? In ANY business growth = the future and decline = death , got any good ideas of how to reverse the declining membership trend or are you only here to wail about people noticing that the future don't look all that bright for our organization ?

Every one of us knows what the AMA wants or wanted ( but will never get ).. The organization is dying and has been for some time. While it might survive this it will never be what it was. The moves they are trying to make should have been done years ago. As far as a new CBO well that may just happen but trust me the AMA will fight them tooth and nail as they have in the past. Pissing away more money and time in the attempt.
Now as far as "those of you who have such hatred and vitriol for the AMA leave" I'm a paying member and intend on asking questions that need to be answered and holding them accountable that's what members of any organization should do. .
Mike

Duplicate post

Like a broken coo coo clock.

Hanson in his op-ed categorically states non-AMA members are in violation of Part 107 and should be "punished".
Further down he admits he's lying, i.e., that 336 may need some tweaks as to who is does and does not cover. Give it up.
The man is a con.

it’s not just the organization. Traditional R/C has been on the decline for years. This is a topic that comes up at every club meeting I’ve attended for nearly 2 decades. It’s only logical that AMA membership numbers would also decline. Add onto that people’s declining amount of discretionary income, and something has got to give.

Technology has now made models that practically fly themselves out of the box, eliminating the need for instructors, and therefore the club. This doesn’t help. AMA tried to adapt, with the Park Flyer program. How successful has that been?

There was a point in our hobby’s history where the AMA was needed, was a great organization and did tremendous good for the hobby. They are still the USA’s modeling representitive to the FAI. And they actually have tried to adapt (and yes, have made mistakes along the way). They do have problems. I’ve never denied that. That has never been my issue. But I’m sorry, I was raised to believe that if you are going to complain about something, you also had better have a good way of fixing it. I have yet to see that here, outside of changing the magazine to digital, which will not be enough.

What would help is if modelers would see that membership is about more than just insurance for one’s self. It is about something bigger. It is also about the fact that it’s easier to fix a problem from the inside, especially if it is done respectfully.

R_Strowe

Calling people "haters" is a dodge and misdirection used by political opponents.
Anything else they have to say can be disregarded as intentional misinformation.

Are you kidding me? Are you freaking blind?

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE THINGS YOU MENTIONED HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED HERE AND SOLUTIONS AND SUGGESTIONS SENT TO THE AMA. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!

THE MAGAZINE IS THE SINGLE BIGGEST BLEEDER. HOW MANY FREAKING YEARS DOES IT TAKE FOR THE AMA TO AXE IT OR COVER THEIR COSTS OF PUBLISHING IT BY MAKING THE RECIPIENTS PAY FOR IT.

THE AMA HAS DONE LITERALLY NOTHING TO ADDRESS IT. NOTHING...

cuckoo, cuckoo.....

Astro

No joke. I and many others have seen it coming for some time. We begged the AMA to make changes and were blown off. Leader Members felt the same way and their thoughts were blown off. They did not want to change. Since retiring I do a few days at the LHS helping fellow modelers. We're graying out and the kids have no interest or desire All the more reason for the AMA to makes moves YEARS ago to cut the fat rather than grow it. They refused to accept the facts and now look at us.
Mike

On top of that, AMA has steered the hobby into what will soon be the most restrictive RC flying rules on earth.

I intentionally left that off my post for obvious reasons we all know ( well most of us anyway) they "screwed the pooch" . I pretty much stopped posting here as in the past I've been labeled ( along with others that point out the failures of OUR organization ) as of those "haters" even though I'm a long term AMA member , Leader Member , Club Officer and work part time at a LHS which helps me see just how modelers feel on this stuff. I do this stuff for the love of the hobby and my flying friends nothing more. In reality I'm not getting any younger and people willing to get involved is shrinking in numbers daily. I'm not sure how much longer I want to be this involved and I'm ready to just go out and fly and hang with my flying buddies.

Mike

Maybe it's just me, but if you read carefully the EC notes and a lot of the messaging coming out of Muncie, there's an undercurrent of trying to return to a bygone era. An era of strong participation in competitions, an era of building, etc. The problem is, times have changed - unfortunately AMA hasn't.

Look at the continued publishing of a magazine that even with spending cuts, is losing on the order of half a million a year. Say they kick the can down the road six months and then make a decision to cut at some point in the future. That's an over decision to accept even more losses. So what, continue putting more good money after bad? That's just poor management & leadership. Yet they do it.

And I'm going to make a prediction. If you're a member, download and hold on to a copy of the recently published 2019 annual report, as well as the recently published financial audit. Then, once we have their 2019 tax filing information, we can see if what they said in their annual report about membership numbers is consistent with the IRS filing for membership revenue ... trends should match at least.

I already have a copy of their 2019 audit report, which historically is very closely aligned with their IRS filing, so like any good lawyer - "I already know the answer before I ask the question." However, since the audit report is a members only document, I'll wait until I can quote data from their PUBLIC document, the IRS filing.

Best idea yet. The AMA won't give any of them the time of day. Completely ignored at the last online meeting by members and the EC. Don't know how much more blunt it has to be. Some of them claiming they would never be members. The list goes on. Think how far along you might have been starting your own CBO. Of course you non joiners wouldn't have an excuse not to join. Franky and the rest of ya could negotiate directly with the FAA on behalf of your members and prove the error of the AMA's ways. The world is made up of an awful lot of complainers and idea men. Isn't it time you guys either shid or get off the pot?

Very well said ....

Again, more deflection....

The AMA is failing miserably. They are already established. Why don't THEY just shid or get off the pot? Or do you really think they are doing a great job?

Astro

I follow the The EC Council minutes when they get around to posting them and at times are amazed on just how foolish they all sound .All.all this patting one another on the back for a job well done. Than when something needs to be addressed it's tabled till later.......... Really sad..

Mike

Let me put just one objective measure of their "management skills" and decision making into perspective.
In constant 2019 dollars, over the period 2001 to 2018, the magazines have LOST over $31,000,000.

That is the equivalent of:
- Over $15,000 dollars to EVERY ONE of AMA's 2000 charted clubs
- Eliminate cost of charter club fees and insurance for EVERY ONE of AMA's 2000 clubs, with $26,000,000 left over!
- 20% reduction in membership fees every year, for every member, since 2001
- Increase amount given in education and other non-field grants by 3700% (yep, that's the number)
- Increase spending on "Program Expenses" (note 1) by over 15%

Note 1: Per non-profit watchdogs, those are expenses that most directly benefit members

I know. They're plan for the black hole of money losses .. the magazines? Yes, magazine costs are coming down, but magazine revenue is coming down faster. Time is not their friend. But what do they decide? Let's lose even more money while we make a decision on a trend that's been evident for ... oh I don't know ... a DECADE! Made me want to vomit. Keep kicking that can down the road!

It matters not you guys are never going to be happy with the AMA so why ae you wasting everyone's time show us how its done start your own CBO.