The Happy AMA Thread , What do YOU do with them ?
10-01-2020, 09:14 AM
#376
....... they'd tax the Hell outta me if they knew it was actually a billion
10-01-2020, 12:50 PM
#377
And that is where, if they never asked for one, they lied to everyone. That is also where the can of worms starts overflowing, if they didn't request the waiver or, if they did, they only requested one for Muncie, throwing the flying fields and membership under the bus
I don't see an issue with a waiver being applied for on a site-by-site or event-by-event basis. And doing such is (I don't believe) throwing the flying fields or membership under the bus. As long as they have good reason for such a waiver (just saying I feel like having a waiver is not a good enough reason).
R_Strowe
10-01-2020, 02:05 PM
#378
I don't see an issue with a waiver being applied for on a site-by-site or event-by-event basis. And doing such is (I don't believe) throwing the flying fields or membership under the bus. As long as they have good reason for such a waiver (just saying I feel like having a waiver is not a good enough reason).
R_Strowe
I'll use the boating club I belong to as an example. Every year:
- the members are required to join NAMBA to be eligible to race and to be covered by the NAMBA group insurance
- the club officers set up a schedule of races and locations.
- the club officers get the required permits and approvals for the race sites
- the club officers put out the schedule, get the insurance coverage for the race sites through NAMBA and ask members to run the races
- one or two members handle the actual race, setting up formats, purchasing trophies/plaques, setting up the course, etc
- the officers put out a newsletter and an update to the season point standings after every race BUT BEFORE the next race.
10-01-2020, 02:39 PM
#379
Assuming the FAA takes that path, and stops issuing them to AMA, then all that remains is the issue of compliance (or lack thereof) at AMA events. Again, if I'm the AMA and I'm trying to get FAA to name me as the first CBO, it is organizational malpractice to be so blatantly tolerating non-compliance and actually encouraging it. But then again, maybe the FAA is playing 3D chess once again. Giving AMA all the rope they need to create a justification to say "No" to the CBO application. Heaven knows there's enough examples at turbine events alone.
10-01-2020, 03:13 PM
#380
I think the AMA's plan works until FAA HQ (i.e. FAA IG / FAA legal) starts learning these waivers in PUBLIC airspace are limited to ONLY members of a PRIVATE dues collecting organization. Absent a clear and realistic process for non-members to obtain the same waivers in public airspace, what FAA is doing is unconstitutional on equal protection grounds. At that point, FAA has three choices: continue and risk litigation in Federal court, create a process for non-members, or stop issuing them to private dues collecting organizations. I humbly submit that of the three, the latter is easier for FAA.
Assuming the FAA takes that path, and stops issuing them to AMA, then all that remains is the issue of compliance (or lack thereof) at AMA events. Again, if I'm the AMA and I'm trying to get FAA to name me as the first CBO, it is organizational malpractice to be so blatantly tolerating non-compliance and actually encouraging it. But then again, maybe the FAA is playing 3D chess once again. Giving AMA all the rope they need to create a justification to say "No" to the CBO application. Heaven knows there's enough examples at turbine events alone.
Assuming the FAA takes that path, and stops issuing them to AMA, then all that remains is the issue of compliance (or lack thereof) at AMA events. Again, if I'm the AMA and I'm trying to get FAA to name me as the first CBO, it is organizational malpractice to be so blatantly tolerating non-compliance and actually encouraging it. But then again, maybe the FAA is playing 3D chess once again. Giving AMA all the rope they need to create a justification to say "No" to the CBO application. Heaven knows there's enough examples at turbine events alone.
But just like you must have certain equipment to operate in, say Class A or B airspace (it's all public airspace, right? I have a RIGHT to be there!), There is nothing wrong with requiring one to show a legitimate need for such. (oh, and if you don't have the requisite equipment, ratings and clearance, you stand a very good chance of being violated and fined by the FAA, because you DON'T have a 'right' to be there).
Face it, Frank, your anger with the AMA is about being denied AMA funds for a flying site on a MILITARY BASE (funds of a private, dues-paying organization, as you are so fond of saying), to help fund a site that would only be accessible to members of the military. Those members were perfectly capable of leaving the base and going to a local club field where ALL members could access a site funded (in part) with AMA dollars.
R_Strowe
10-01-2020, 03:56 PM
#381
But just like you must have certain equipment to operate in, say Class A or B airspace (it's all public airspace, right? I have a RIGHT to be there!), There is nothing wrong with requiring one to show a legitimate need for such. (oh, and if you don't have the requisite equipment, ratings and clearance, you stand a very good chance of being violated and fined by the FAA, because you DON'T have a 'right' to be there).
- Equipment - anyone can purchase. Not contingent on association with any private dues collecting organization.
- Ratings - governmental. Again, not contingent on association with any private dues collecting organization.
- Clearance - governmental. And one more time, not contingent on association with any private dues collecting organization.
- Can be in class A or B is ... wait for it ... not contingent on association with any private dues collecting organization.
Face it, Frank, your anger with the AMA is about being denied AMA funds for a flying site on a MILITARY BASE (funds of a private, dues-paying organization, as you are so fond of saying), to help fund a site that would only be accessible to members of the military. Those members were perfectly capable of leaving the base and going to a local club field where ALL members could access a site funded (in part) with AMA dollars.
Last edited by franklin_m; 10-02-2020 at 02:39 AM.
10-03-2020, 05:22 AM
#382
And yet, the current law, as written by Congress, relegates flying to FRIA’s (which are only set up through CBO’s, private dues-paying organizations), unless one is following Standard or Limited RID. Either the law is unconstitutional, or your interpretation of ‘public airspace’ is. Can’t have it both ways.
R_Strowe
R_Strowe
10-03-2020, 05:37 AM
#383
The other thing to consider, Franklin's use of the term " Private dues collecting organization ". I don't see that as holding up in court as both the AMA and affiliated clubs can easily show that there is no discrimination in membership. I also don't see a court determining that $75 per year and another $35 to $150 per year for club membership overly burdensome.
10-03-2020, 06:07 AM
#384
So , here's a kinda funny pic for my happy thread . This is the little foamy parkzone cub I use to give introductory flights to people interested in RC planes . Here you see it sitting on the hood of my car , where I was putting the battery in it getting it ready for it's next flight . I heard what I thought was a servo buzzing so I unplugged the battery , and yet the buzzing persisted , , , look up in the tree about 15 or 20 feet above the plane ....... ! 
10-03-2020, 06:24 AM
#386
And yet, the current law, as written by Congress, relegates flying to FRIA’s (which are only set up through CBO’s, private dues-paying organizations), unless one is following Standard or Limited RID. Either the law is unconstitutional, or your interpretation of ‘public airspace’ is. Can’t have it both ways.
10-03-2020, 06:24 AM
#387
It's a cute little foamy , it looks tiny on the car hood and even smaller on the club field runway , but it serves the purpose of introductory flights really well , just it and a couple of DX-5 TXs with a buddy cord and everyone whose flown it was grinning from ear to ear afterward
10-03-2020, 06:29 AM
#388
The other thing to consider, Franklin's use of the term " Private dues collecting organization ". I don't see that as holding up in court as both the AMA and affiliated clubs can easily show that there is no discrimination in membership. I also don't see a court determining that $75 per year and another $35 to $150 per year for club membership overly burdensome.
Furthermore, another problem is that so long as these private dues collecting can deny membership based on bylaws, or expel members, or deny membership based on something like maximum number of club members - the policy is discriminatory.
10-03-2020, 06:30 AM
#389
Unfortunately, much of what was "as you always have" is now explicitly illegal under 49 USC 44809(a)(6).
Therefore AMA telling members to "just keep flying as you always have" is in fact AMA encouraging their members to disobey explicit Federal law. Gee ... what could possibly go wrong with that plan!
Therefore AMA telling members to "just keep flying as you always have" is in fact AMA encouraging their members to disobey explicit Federal law. Gee ... what could possibly go wrong with that plan!
1. LSF CD asked FAA " are we required to verify registration? " answer: No, you are not agents of FAA and do not have access to that database.
2. LSF CD notified FAA " we fully intend to fly over 400' and would like to apply for a waiver " answer: No waiver is required, proceed with your event.
I highly suspect the same happened with the pattern team trials. Doubt this if you wish but keep in mind that I am connected well enough with both groups that I have spoken with multiple event participants in both cases.
10-03-2020, 06:36 AM
#390
That’s not how the Constitution works. It’s not that they don’t discriminate, it’s that you are forced to associate AT ALL with any private dues collecting organization in order to enjoy special privileges in PUBLIC airspace.
Furthermore, another problem is that so long as these private dues collecting can deny membership based on bylaws, or expel members, or deny membership based on something like maximum number of club members - the policy is discriminatory.
Furthermore, another problem is that so long as these private dues collecting can deny membership based on bylaws, or expel members, or deny membership based on something like maximum number of club members - the policy is discriminatory.
Until it would actually go to court both you and I are expressing nothing more then opinions based on our own experiences.
10-03-2020, 06:39 AM
#391
Oh yeah , I jumped in the car and slowly backed away with the plane still on the hood !
It's a cute little foamy , it looks tiny on the car hood and even smaller on the club field runway , but it serves the purpose of introductory flights really well , just it and a couple of DX-5 TXs with a buddy cord and everyone whose flown it was grinning from ear to ear afterward
It's a cute little foamy , it looks tiny on the car hood and even smaller on the club field runway , but it serves the purpose of introductory flights really well , just it and a couple of DX-5 TXs with a buddy cord and everyone whose flown it was grinning from ear to ear afterward
Agree, I have flown one on several occasions and for what they are they fly incredibly well and quite easy. I kinda do the same when promoting pattern, call a guy over and just stick the TX in his hands and walk away.
10-03-2020, 09:32 AM
#392
10-03-2020, 09:44 AM
#393
You can suspect all you like. Again, if they had approval to violate explicit Federal law, the FAA will produce it as a result of the FOIA submission. If they did not, then we will know that as well --- as will FAA.
10-03-2020, 03:16 PM
#395
10-03-2020, 03:25 PM
#396
Pretty darn good for an under 14,000 member association. Most of our benifits came about by concentrating on members only needs.
Last edited by Propworn; 10-03-2020 at 03:29 PM.
10-04-2020, 05:49 AM
#397
Whats the mater puddle racer attempt at a couple cheap shots not working today. All we did in Canada was to let the air authority make the rules for everyone then apply for an exemption for MAAC members. Any other organization could do the same. If the AMA would heve done that I doubt there would have been an issue for the member's.
10-04-2020, 06:15 AM
#398
Best full scale aviation day EVER !!!!! I'm hidden on the other side of the plane helping my Son get in (the pair of black shoes you can see if you look under the fuselage near the left hand wheel) . Anyone else got any pics of themselves doing anything cool with full scale aircraft ? 
10-04-2020, 06:22 AM
#399
Dennis, as of right now there really isn't an issue. All indications point toward the FAA leaving us alone. In the 2 years since all this was supposed to go into effect the FAA has not interfered with a single event nor written a single citation to a LOS airplane pilot. The observant people in these threads seem to be missing that point. Yes it was written into law but history shows us that a law is nothing more then a peice of paper until that law has passed the test of being upheld in a court of law. Many laws have been overturned the first time they get to court. There are also literally hundreds of laws that are ignored by residents and law enforcement on a daily basis. The problem with openly ignoring this particular law is that it goes against the narrative of certain people with an axe to grind. For those of us who frequent multiple club fields and pay attention to events happening around the country it's obvious that the hobby remains the same. It's fairly obvious that the FAA is not interested in enforcing the law that congress forced them to create. Why do you think they haven't produced a test yet? Why haven't they recognized any CBO? Could it be that they just don't want to be bothered with spending millions of taxpayer money on a hobby that is slowly bleeding to death? Given enough time they realize that there just won't be enough of us to worry about.
Of course there are some who feel that they need to force others into compliance without the authority to do so. One such individual is seeking specific information from the FAA in an attempt to FORCE them to uphold a law they seem to not really care about. Hasn't that very person criticized the AMA for trying to force the hand of the FAA? Watch next as that very person will reply to this thread in a long winded reply that IMO ( pardon the phrase ) reminds me of Bible thumping. All it does is remind me how dangerous I must be to his narrative.
Of course there are some who feel that they need to force others into compliance without the authority to do so. One such individual is seeking specific information from the FAA in an attempt to FORCE them to uphold a law they seem to not really care about. Hasn't that very person criticized the AMA for trying to force the hand of the FAA? Watch next as that very person will reply to this thread in a long winded reply that IMO ( pardon the phrase ) reminds me of Bible thumping. All it does is remind me how dangerous I must be to his narrative.
10-04-2020, 06:30 AM
#400
Best full scale aviation day EVER !!!!! I'm hidden on the other side of the plane helping my Son get in (the pair of black shoes you can see if you look under the fuselage near the left hand wheel) . Anyone else got any pics of themselves doing anything cool with full scale aircraft ?Very cool Init, I have a couple I can share with you.
