MR>ED

Everybody has their own ideas and opinions. One thing i don't see is the I.M.A.A. buying big buildings in California with my money.What do you get for your $58 dollars a year from A.M.A. If you have an accident, your home owners policy has to cover it first, which is about as far as it goes, then your policy goes up. I don't see A.M.A. paying the increase.The $20 dollars i pay for membership is nothing. Whin i go to the Joe Nall fly-in each year, i get my $20 worth right there. Pat has spent a fortune just so people can have a nice and safe place to fly. You don't have to pay to get in and can stay all week for nothing. After five oclock you can fly anything you want even without an I.M.A.A. membership, no one ever ask you if you are a member.So i think i get a lot more for my $20 than i do with my $58 dollars.

Edward Lee
I.M.A.A. 19091
Sweetwater Tn.

Roby

I'll back Jim Messer,

Back several years ago many of the scale meets in my area had gone to IMAA events.
When this change occurred, the attendance dropped off. If I wanted to fly at a scale event
I had to join another organization ? Ya rite !!!! . Apparently I was not alone and others felt
like wise.

Now we have "scale fly in's"in my area that have no size restrictions,if it's scale....fly it.
it's just a great time and are very well attended . WITHOUT the IMAA !!!

If you care to join and it's rite for you , then do so, but for me and many others,IMAA go away,
we don't need nor want you .

The IMAA's claim to fame is the promoting of the large models. It is true they did get the ball rolling !
NOW..............step aside................let it roll.

Roby

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Pretty funny.

How much insurance does IMAA provide you if your home owners doesn't cover your accident?

Does IMAA have a national flying site?

Will your IMAA membership allow you to fly at the majority of clubs around the country (without having AMA)?

Sledge-RCU

From: Tom Hammer IMAA DD-8

Motion 12 was WITHDRAWN by Tom Hammer as Tom Hayden was starting to read it to the BOD. Motion 12 was not discussed or voted on at the IMAA BOD meeting at Orlando.

We all understand that we are a part of the AMA and we rely on the AMA for our existence.
Without the framework of the AMA to control the overall sanctioning process we would have total chaos.
We at the IMAA add increased safety requirements to our Big Bird events. It should be part of the IMAA's mission to assist the AMA in developing the safety standards regarding building large scale RC Aircraft. Safe flying must remain our first priority.

As part of the IMAA BOD I will assist in every way I can to make the IMAA
the choice of clubs that wish to hold Big Bird events under the AMA umbrella.

Respectfully submitted.

Tom Hammer IMAA Director Dist VIII

DF_Flyer

Jim B - I was one of the 12,000 (back then), but I'm not one of the 8,000 (now). I was in for exactly one season before the infighting and general hostile environment convinced me that I could spend my money better elswhere. Lots of good guys, but a few real doozies.

DFF

cap10b

The IMAA is dead here in North Texas, I was in the sport back in the early to late 90's and the IMAA was strong. I got out to go back to school and since then I have returned to the hobby only to learn the IMAA turned against its own membership by telling everyone how and what they could fly. Abandoning the "Everyone welcome attitude" Now there just another organization that does nothing for the sport except take your money. All my fiends that fly big birds were 100% die hard IMAA now they just laugh at the IMAA events and go about there big bird IMAC events and fun flys. Too bad too because the IMAA was a pretty good organization at one time.

Thats my story and Im stick'n to it.

JDS

excaliber

I too was one of the way back ones and still have a copy of the original bylaws.
I am also still a member.
BUT DAMN IT I WON"T GO TO A IMAA SANCTIONED EVENT WHEN I HAVE TO PAY A LANDING FEE FOR THE PRIVILAGE OF FLYING AT THE EVENT.

landing fee=greed

FHHuber

Landing fees = support for the club sponsoring the event.

The club has to pay the sanction fee, then they have to pay for thier field's maintenance..... Some of these events (with or without IMAA) will provide a BUNCH of door prizes (the HOTMAC event in WACO tends to have more than one door prize per pilot...) soe will have a T-shirt for each registered pilot (costs them half the landing fee to get the T-shirts made... and the pilots almost always LOVE getting the shirt..) Some of them provide registered pilots with lunch...

$10 to $20 landing fee... not a bad deal. A heck of a lot cheaper than a Green Fee to play [:'(]golf[:'(]

J_R

Just my opinion, but it was a mistake when the "entry fee" was renamed to "landing fee". It rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Go figure.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

yeah, but see, that is what the 1:1 scalers call it at their events, and we all know that most modlers want to be thought of as "real" pilots.

FHHuber

Shameless plug

That HOTMAC annual Big Bird is a pretty good event at a good site too. 800 ft paved (was that before or after the expansion last year...[:-] Before I think. [:-]) Almost always 2 or more turbine power models show up... There's a guy working on a B-36 you GOTTA see to believe ([X(]32 ft trailer for the fuselage![X(]) And Friendly guys all over the place, having fun showing off thier airplanes..

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Hi,
I always get a kick when the subject of landing fees come up. And a bigger laugh when the subject of paying for parking is discussed. Most guys that go to fun flys have a considerable amount of money tied up in their model but complain if they have to pay $20 and/or $3 to park. Most of them would think nothing of spending $80 for a Tru Turn spinner, but pay a landing fee-oh no, the club is ripping me off.
PLEASE, get a grip!
The club went to a lot of time and effort to set up the event, including volunteers to run impound area, flight line etc. You get to fly at a really nice field for two days, with modelers that have the same interest as you. You can fly, BS or a combination of both and have a relaxing weekend. What's wrong in helping payback some of the expenses? My buddy and I go to funflys as often as possible, we bring the wives, they sit under the tent and talk, read, whatever while we fly and BS. In the evening we go to dinner, maybe a movie and have a great time.
The $20 is cheap entertainment.
Regards,
Jon

FHHuber

Now there's some common sense creeping in[:-] We gonna allow that?[:-]

Yep... $2000 (or more) in that big bird (not counting labor) and $10 to $100 in gasoline to get to the event... and $3 in glow fuel per 20 min flight... and worry about the landing fee for the event (when they give you lunch and door prizes and...)

Jim Messer

My Feedback: (2)

You don't need to charge "landing fees" (a term that I hate), to make money at any event. The STARS club in western NY has run their "ALL SCALE WELCOME" meet for the past 27 years, and they have yet to collect a dime from the pilots in the form of landing fees, entry fees, or whatever. We even give every pilot a FREE LUNCH, (now in the form of meal tickets- a $5.00 value) that can be exchanged at the food concession. After all - "THE PILOTS ARE THE SHOW", and without them, there would be no show. We even throw a wine and cheese party for all pilots and their wives/girlfriends or whatever, on the evening after the first day of flying (Saturday) at NO COST to any of them. In other words - the party is FREE to all, and ALL are invited. Is it any wonder then why this meet has been so well attended (about 150 pilots) for the past 27 years EVEN WITHOUTTHE BACKING OF IMAA?

The monies come from the spectators. We ask every car for a $3.00 donation to get in, but let them in anyway if they don't wish to contribute. At least 99% pay that fee. We average about 2000 spectators, that bring their lawn chairs and spend the entire day watching "the show". We have a deal with the local volunteer fireman - they man the concession stand 100%, and they get a percentage of the profits. It's worth their while, as they have been doing this for the past 20 years.

We sell 50/50 tickets with a drawing about every two hours. A winner will usually get about 50 bucks. We also have a raffle on a new radio system, that is DONATED every year by a prominent manufacturer. That will usually bring in double what the system sells for.

We fly at the Olean municipal airport, owned by the city of Olean, NY and for those two days, the airport is CLOSED to full scale traffic, between 10:00 am to 5:00pm both days. That's how much the city is behind this very successful event.

We keep food prices REASONABLE! We plan on every specctator purchasing at least one hot-dog/hamburger/coke, but they won't do that with inflated prices. We sell hot coffee and doughnuts in the early morning - again at reasonable prices. We have an ice cream stand that is operated by the club, and it is very popular. Again the prices are kept reasonable.

We ask the big chain grocery stores to either donate the hot-dogs/hamburger or give a generous discount on same so that we can keep our prices low and still make money. We ask the local Pepsi Cola bottling works to either donate the soft drinks, or give us a break on pricing. We ask the local bakery to donate or give a price concession on the hamburg/hot-dog rolls. Surprisingly enough, they all do. There were some years where ALL the food was donated, and we sold two hot-dogs and a Pepsi for a buck! Today, that's more like two bucks, and it all happened because we asked!

We have a local factory that makes T-shirts, so we order a gross of special printed T-shirts and we sell them to whoever wants them. A lot of pilots buy them, and so do the spectators. Again the prices are kept reasonable. No gouging allowed here. (Are you listening?)

So after all expenses are paid - there is usually a 2 to 4 thousand dollars profit left for the club. Some years, it has rained, and the profit was zero, but that is the chance you have to take.

I am now living in Florida, and there are a lot of IMAA meets here, but I don't go to any of them because I absolutely refuse to pay someone to fly my airplane. I am not rich like those that show up in their million dollar motor homes and trailers, but even if I were, I still wouldn't pay, simply because it's against my principles, and I know from experience that it doesn't have to be that way.

The STARS "all scale meet", (without any help from IMAA) is a good example.

FHHuber

Very nice for the club that can draw the requisite crowd size to make a profit that way...

How about the club where the pilots outnumber the spectators 2 to 1?

Yes, better advertising would POSSIBLY draw a better crowd... but with a remote field location... that is often all you can get.

rnav

There are plan’s in the works to actually pay clubs for having IMAA events, so the club can wave the landing fee. We do not charge a landing fee at are club (thistledown Flyers Chapter 2) we believe that the pilot's make the show happen, There are events IMO. That need to charge a landing fee, Joe Nall is one, and other events such as the DOG’s show in Dayton Ohio. For 20 dollars you gat a top notch magazine that have some vary positive columns about the hobby. I wish things would come around for the organization, i.e. fly what you bring, and so on. Don’t give up on the IMAA. It has done a lot for giant scale.

Roll On 60

A top notch magazine???????????
I sure would hate to see a bad one.

rnav

Yes it is. If you have big airplane kits, hardware, or tools that suit the hobby. You would be a fool not to advertise in High flight. If the IMAA goes south, you can bet the AMA won’t be there to support big airplanes. The consensus is they would love to shut down big airplanes. I wish you would have had a better experience with the IMAA. I have read some of your previous post’s on this forum, and believe you are passionate about the Down fall of the IMAA. I just wish you could take some of that energy, and turn it into making it a better IMAA.
I will not respond to any more post on this subject. Let the cards fall wear they must. No matter what happens to IMAA. I hope molders will still in someway try to promote this wonderful hobby.

Hossfly

>>>>>>>>>>>> Jim Messer
"
I am now living in Florida, and there are a lot of IMAA meets here, but I don't go to any of them because I absolutely refuse to pay someone to fly my airplane. I am not rich like those that show up in their million dollar motor homes and trailers, but even if I were, I still wouldn't pay, simply because it's against my principles, and I know from experience that it doesn't have to be that way.

The STARS "all scale meet", (without any help from IMAA) is a good example.
_____________________________
Jim Messer
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Reference Landing Fees you state that paying is "...it's against my principles,..."

However in your post, you have no principles against BEGGING for donations from the hobby industry, the city, local business people etc. etc.

You find it OK for someone else to foot your bills.[:@]

One of my principles is paying my own way. In addition, I expect the same of others.

Jim Messer

My Feedback: (2)

Horrace:

You are so full of crap it isn't even funny. NO - I will not pay anyone to fly my airplane so that they can make money off my talents. Like I said - I am not filty rich like you - and what monies I have doesn't grow on trees. I make the most of what I have. One of the things I do in modeling to keep costs down, is that I never buy anything that I can make. In your case, you probably never make anything that you can buy. In simple terms - you seem to have lots of money - I don't - but that doesn't make me a second class citizen. It's no wonder you can't win the AMA VP position with your go to hell attitude, when things don't go your way.

Now to respond to your last post: The city of Olean WANTS the STARS airshow. That's why they are willing to shut down the municipal airport for two days each year. They say that this event draws more taxpayers to the airport than any other event - and it gives those taxpayers a chance to see what their tax-dollars are doing for them. It's a real PLUS for R/C in the area. EVERYBODY LIKES US! Everybody looks forward each and every year for next years show. Do you have that same relationship with the city in which you live? Probably not - and that's why you HAVE to pay your own way. If you would just change your attitude, some people might work with you instead of against you all the time, although I know it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

So far as begging off the merchants, let's set that record straight. First off, when this meet was four or five years old, Model Airplane News came to us and asked permission to pay for all of the pilots dinners in exchange for an ad on the flyers that were sent out - "pilots dinners - compliments of Model Airplane News". We would have been nuts not to accept this very generous offer.

After the local Pepsi-Cola bottling works saw the number of people in attendance at this event, they too asked to be a sponsor. That's how we got started. Then one of our members owned a series of supermarkets, and he volunteered the hot-dogs. We did ask the local bakery to cut us some slack on the rolls, and they did in big time fashion. They also wanted to get in on the action. The local volunteer fire department that oversees the airport facility also gets a generous cut off the food concession that they run for us, and that helps their budget. So you see Horrace, it isn't "begging" as you like to call it, rather it's an exchange of products for advertising, groups working with one another, with an end result where everybody wins. Is that too hard for you to understand??

We do ask each car to donate $3.00 to get into the show - no matter how many persons are in the car. Some refuse to pay, but we welcome them anyway. You call this a "begging" process, but we call it "the price of admission". We also don't beg anyone to eat at this show, but we keep food prices so LOW, they can hardly refuse. They know a good deal when they see it.

So - go ahead and continue to pay your own way wherever you go, if that's what makes you happy. But if you ever come to NY, we would welcome you to this meet, and it won't cost you a dime. However, if you should feel guilty for having a real good time at no expense to you, then in that case donations to the club are accepted.

Taildrager-inactive

My Feedback: (11)

Messer, is that all you can do, attack some body because they have a different opnion than you, as to having money that is easily solved, its called work. As for IMAA membership, landing fees, parking fees, if you don't want to pay them don't, very simple as there will be enough guys and planes at these meets we won't miss you.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Funny...I don't get the magzaine...yet I have no trouble getting supplies.

Who's consensus?

FHHuber

The AMA doesn't have anything against large models... It has a beef with unsafe large models.

The structural requirements of a model in excess of 150 inch span and in excess of 50 lbs gets into areas that the average modeler will be ill-prepared to deal with. In recognition that you have to have better skills to deal with such large aircraft... the AMA requires you to get a "waiver" as a certification that you know what the heck you are doing.

If you know what you are doing... you can easilly get the waiver. If you are clueless about building and/or safely flying such a large model... darn... no waiver.

And I see no problem with that at all... The AMa is protecting you from yourself... and protecting others from you to the best of its ability.

No waiver doesn't mean you can't build and fly your monster... (and crash it to smitherines..) It just means that the AMA won't be in any way resonsible for you doing something stupid, by exceeeding your ability as a builder and/or pilot in attempting such a large aircraft.

If you can't get the waiver... you need to fnd out what skills you need to imprve before trying the larger model. Improve the skills adequately... reapply and... you'll get your waiver.

(the same basic thing applies to Turbines... If you can afford one and can't qualify... maybe you better practice flying and building a bit more...)

Hossfly

JIM:

Your club is to be commended for the help and assistance that you get for your show. Model Aviation as a whole, certainly gets a fine benefit from all those that learn about modeling through the club's efforts and the community support that the club has obtained. Excellent performance for a job well done as indicated by your report.

OTOH, I find it most difficult to understand why you are so down on those clubs that do not have the opportunity to obtain such community support. If all clubs had to have such outside sustenance, my experience indicates that very few events would ever be scheduled.

Reference paying LANDING and/or ENTRY FEES, I gladly pay the fees for a contest that I wish to enter. (Admittedly those are very limited anymore) In addition I attend a number of Fly-Ins each year, yet I doubt that I fly at even half of them. I pay the required fee/s, I buy food even though I may have a cooler full in the truck or trailer. You see Jim, I consider paying those fees as simple support for that Club and its members that extended the effort to host an event. I get to look at all the models, B.S., see guys that I don't see often, and B.S. some more, and watch some models far better, both in building and flying, than I could ever hope for. I just don't consider it as someone ripping me off.

You indicated something about my financial status. Well, SIR, I am a da_n long way from RICH and getting farther each day. Comfortable but definitely not rich.
Jim, I build almost all my models, and I do ALL the repair work. I do make a number of things I could buy, however I am a frugal shopper. I did make a big financial cut just last year as through 2002 I belong to SEVEN AMA SIGs mostly just to support their work. Now I belong only to one SIG, IMAA, plus the non-sig unit "Flying Aces", a rubber-powered scale group.
Still, I CD several events each year, instruct, and generally support the club/s.

Jim, your position is yours and mine is mine. I simply don't understand why it is needed to belittle those clubs that just do their thing, and maybe make a few bucks so they can do it again. I cheer on clubs like yours that can raise the support. Of course having a member -- "one of our members owned a series of supermarkets, and he volunteered the hot-dogs," does kind of help in getting other local business people to take notice. In any case, keep up the good work, however please consider those less fortunate with their events and maybe give 'em a little boost.

EC120

I second everything Hossfly said. Too many factors come into play on these events to use a cookie cutter approach for every field. The local media doesn't help us much and the spectators we do reach don't know what to expect. The word "free" is what brings them in. Besides I think the pilots get more entertainment from having the spectators watch them than many of the spectators get. Remember these spectators are often clueless about what you are doing. So I don't look at it as putting on a show for the spectators. More like an opportunity to get the spectators interested, sell them on the hobby, and maybe get new members. If we were easily in public view or had more help from the local media than that dynamic might change but we rely on pilot fees just to hope to break even.