If the mission of ourselves and the AMA is to PROMOTE the hobby,
Then what are we doing to discipline clubs and members of clubs who go out
and intensionally try to stop the flying of jets (turbines)before it even gets started.

I belong to a club that has a valid fire danger issue only between June and late Oct,

Suddenly on out on the clubs web site the SAM airpark accommodates all RC aircraft , except jets.

The members of the club never voted on such a thing.

Switch to helis. Everyone loves us! hehe

Welcome to the red-headed step child club.

read yer club bylaws and they will tell ya what to do and how to handle it.
that is the first step.

let us know from there.

If the procedure to discipline your club members is NOT in your bylaws, you have a real serious cat fight on your hands. Not only that, but the AMA will not be much help you until you correct the bylaws issue since the AMA only has one disciplinary method in existence today - expulsion.

Step one is to go to the meeting and make sure your club by-laws are reasonably consistent with the concepts presented in AMA .pdf Document 539, INCLUDING the due process portion. Please make SURE you do this in a friendly manner since you would rather get assistance than spend your time fighting people who have decided that fighting is more fun than flying.

Step two is to make the necessary corrections ASAP. Get in the drivers seat on this issue if you must because in a short time that may be one of the things your club has to have in place to continue to be a chartered club which affects the insurance you can present to your landlord. IIRC it is the county in your case and they will take a dim view of a reduction in your club coverage.

Step three is to THEN make an issue of the problem and the lack of vote for the change. If you have handled steps one and two in a non aggressive, non confrontational, and helpful manner this will be easy to handle. If you failed to make friends in step one and/or two be prepared for a real donnybrook.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

John

Be careful...very,very careful... they might start writing letters suggesting that we simply exclude turbines from the AMA, its events, and its coverages.

I am surprised to see YOU suggest that!

I guess that means you don't want any more input to help the guy find a viable solution to his problem. That figures, you are a troll. . . .

I think some of the Jet guy''''s cause them selves problems by stirring the pot. If you fly what you , your pocket book and your field can handle there should be know problems, Some people in clubs think their word is law. Think for you self and stand by your rites and their surely will be an answer.This happens with any changes there are people for and against any thing new. I hated PC's all they will do is cause more problem, You know I think I was rite. O well

That's like the pot calling the kettle black!

Playing by the rules is always the right thing, AMA has a set of rules already governing turbine operation.
AMA flying site's should abid by those rules, and not allow ones to be made up that are discrimatory.
At the same time the fire danger here in CA is real and has to be managed properly, the wet season is from Nov - May, there is NO reason to restrict turbine flight operations the WHOLE YEAR. Even then you can request fire coverage for a major event. The local fire depts love that get out of the firehouse type stuff.

Having more kinds of planes flying means more fun for everyone.

First... the original post said the field had a legitimate fire hazard problem with jets. Right there is sufficient reason for the website to state that Jets were not accomodated.

Maybe just the wording of the jet limitations on the website needs to be altered to reflect that its a seasonal fire hazard, and thus state that durring June to Sept (or whenever the hazard is normally excessive) that turbines are not allowed. (should it also apply to Gasoline powered prop driven planes as they can be a fire hazard in a crash too?)

Look for the easiest solution first.

Whoa! Back up a minute.

First, the AMA has only one site. The one in Muncie. AMA chartered clubs may have fields. The AMA does NOT tell clubs how they will be run.

Second, think your reasoning through. Should your club share it’s site with Free Flight or Control Line? No, you say, but any RC planes. Ok, how about if I string a high-start down the middle of the runway so I can launch my sailplane, or start flying electric park flyer’s while a turbine is up?

Each club is organized as the members of the club organized it. Some are run, almost entirely, buy a Board of Directors that has almost unlimited authority, some require that the membership vote on almost everything. Some clubs limit membership, some do not. Some allow turbines, some do not. Some allow electrics, some do not. The decision is that of the club. Some do not even have a field.

JR

Jim,

If you were a door, your hinges would be worn out from swinging both ways. You do this on every issue I have seen you post about.

Jets:

You state you want to help this fellow follow proper procedure to try and get the club to fly his turbine there. Two weeks ago or so, you were starting a letter writing campaign to get the AMA to ban turbines.

3d:

You bust into the funfly forum with a post stating "Lets get rid of rule 9" - Later everyone learns that you want to get rid of rule #9 so that you can put some other draconian rule in place that you have dreamed up.

Checkbook modellers:

I could go on and on and on.

The scary thing is I think I would prefer DB as AMA president over you cuz at least I know how he intends to stick us modellers in the back. You never know where you are coming from.

Todd

John Casey

I see that you have cross posted in the jet forum and have taken your poor reasoning to the warmer confines you may find there.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ANTI...1446495/tm.htm

JR

Whoa there JR..... IT"S AMA flying sites JR...... chartered AMA clubs with flying sites,
we all follow the same AMA safety rules. And as AN AMA CHARTERED club we follow
the AMA guidlines TO FLY . As long you are meeting the guidlines of the AMA, you should be able to fly
at any AMA flying site. With reasonable local restrictions for fire danger. Discrimination is a narrow road to walk.

"Each club is organized as the members of the club organized it. Some are run, almost entirely, buy a Board of Directors that has almost unlimited authority"

NOT IN THIS WORLD...his type of law exists in most states covering non profit mutual corporations:
(FLYING CLUBS)
5222. (a) Subject to subdivisions (b) and (f), any or all directors( board officers)
may be removed without cause if:
(1) In a corporation with fewer than 50 members, the removal is
approved by a majority of all members (Section 5033).
(2) In a corporation with 50 or more members, the removal is
approved by the members (Section 5034).
(3) In a corporation with no members, the removal is approved by a
majority of the directors then in office.

THE MEMBERS ARE THE BOSS OF THE CLUB, theyare not a republic,
the board members do the "chores" of the club, as elected volunteers they don't rule it,
the members have the authority to fire the boards and or any board member
.. that makes them the boss. Its only the misinformed club member that think the boards rule over its members.

Well, it would appear that you have obtained a copy of your club by-laws. What authroity was bestowed upon the officers/board of directors, in reference to making safety rules?

What is the exact process in the by-laws set forth to remove them?

You do have them and do know, as fact, that the club is a non-profit corporation, and you are not assuming that because the AMA is non-profit that the club is also, are you? Are you positive that it is a corporation, non-profit or otherwise?

Have you taken a straw poll of the membership to determine the will of the membership? Do you have an alternative board ready to run? If so, you are much luckier than most clubs where they are reduced to begging people to serve as officers.

Or... are you just off on a rant?

Oh, and let me know when you get it done, I want to bring my winch up and launch my sailplane down the runway when your up.

BTW, the Safety Code is something all Clubs are supposed to obey. Guidelines are just that... guidelines and have no force whatsoever.

I have watched your signature line for a while and been amused. Then I see this remark and think that coming from you, I should take that as a very high complement! Thank you.

Maybe the assumption that this issue is safety related just might be in error...It simply may be that the club officers believe the turbine crowd represents the most arrogant bunch of well heeled self centered people they have ever had the displeasure to be associated with and just simply do not want them around...

Alas I am just a troll what could I possibly know?
[&o]

Troll

John made this statement in the jet forum in a thread with the same name as this one. It certainly IMPLIES a safety rule was made, warranted or not.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.a...495&tostyle=tm
"So what experience have jet pilots had with anti_jet people..
People going to homeowners groups , using the fear card of FIRE to shut down any jet flying at that flying site that has never seen a turbine and few ducted fans"

Edited to add: My inital reaction to his first post was that he might have a point. As the thread has progressed, he shows a lack of understanding about the nature of an AMA club. He continutes to make statements that are, so far, either wrong, or unsupported. Instead of taking his concerns to those directly involved, he has brought them here. He seems uninterested in any facts, or opiinions, other than his own.

Just my opinion. Let's see if he produces facts that support his implied claims, i.e. that the club members would vote to allow turbines... or for that matter, sailplanes. With the attitude he has shown so far, he may be the first to head on down to the local gym where the indoor rc guys are and demand to fly a turbine indoors.

JR

Close, but a little off. There is ONE AMA flying site in Muncie. Most of the others are private clubs CHARTERED by AMA. To be CHARTERED they must accept the basic safety rules...but that does NOT preclude them from imposing more at their particular field.

I'd tell them to let me in with my jet. What evidence do they have? What about gassers? I'm sure they are more than happy to be flying 42% Extra's around and crashing them into supper dry brush. Get gasoline on a hot exhaust and guess what? Fire!

I'd show up at the field with a jet, an electric jet just to prove the point, and then see if they try to expell you. Oh look chief, big plane lets out no fire. Ohhhhh!

I'm for the jet guys, this is a classic case of bandwagon pursecution because it is rumored that "jets" only cause fires. Bull****! Any plane out their can run the risk. Even electrics!

I wonder if Li-poly powered electrics are on the hit list? They seem to have caused more damage in the past year than Jets and Giant scale combined in the last 10!

I did check the bylaws, flightline rule changes can be applied only after the membership
is notified 30 days in advance in writing.(VIA the newsletter) This also gives the membership
the ability to discuss and overturn any rules made hap hazardly by the Board.

SO for those folks who respect the club processes as I do......THIS NEVER HAPPENED.
No vote, no notification, Nothing.....

As far as AMA flying clubs across the USA, I have seen few if any wide departure for the AMA rules
when it comes to flight operations.

It is to bad that people don't look turbines as just another model aiplane engine,
because that's whats they have become...... it's not warp drive.
The dangers are slightly different, not more. More flying sites have been lost to noise
than anything else, turbines are Quite, crashes are few, we need to embrace
the technology not have people use it to seperate us.

Does anyone out there belong to a club that does not allow CL, FF, Sailpanes, Turbines/Electrics or any other form of modeling besides RC prop wet engines?

Yes.

Here is the quote from Article 1 of our club constitution:

"1. The name of this organization shall be The American Turf Flyers Inc., and as such, shall constitute the parent organization and shall be referred to hereinafter as the "CLUB".

2. There shall only be Interest Groups representing One Basic type of model aircraft activity: Radio controlled."

We don't restrict the type of RC aircraft - all are welcome..

Dan