The way I read the rules, " IF " I decided to join the AMA, I would be covered by the insurance anywhere I chose to fly, as long as I established a proper flight line and spectator line first. Is this correct? I am just returning to R.C. after several years away. I never was an AMA member. There used to be a "Sport Flyers" something or other which would cover folks like me who aren't the clubby kind, but they seem to have disappeared. I remember talking to one club Pres. whose club was sanctioned both by A.M.A. and Sport Flyers that his club would have been closed if not for Sport Flyers, who paid claims that A.M.A. insurance denied. Actually, i have heard of several cases where AMA denied claims, and have never heard of a claim that was paid.They will not release information on claims. This makes me wonder if they have EVER paid a claim.I was thinking insurance would be nice, but why bother, if they are just going to refuse to pay anyway? Oh and the way only high-ups in AMA leadership are eligible to run for president stinks. It's just a "good old boy " system where those who have control can cling to it perpetually, regardless of the will of the membership. Come to think of it, why in the hell would I pay $58.00 or whatever it is , so I can call myself a member of such an out of control organization? Never mind.

You know, I agree with you, but around here, there is no where else to fly except at AMA sanctioned fields. They say that unless you have your AMA card, you cant fly. It is the only hobby that I know of that you have to pay a membership fee just to do what you enjoy.

AMA sucks, but hey, what are you gonna do you know?

heck you had a pretty good troll going on there. hate to see you just give up. darn[&o]

Whenever you deal with multiple insurers, you create a chain of which has to pay when.

The AMA insurance specifies that it is secondary... the dual charter of the club you mention most likely ended up making the SFA's insurance higher in the chain than the AMA insurance... If so the AMA's insurance carrier would have waited for the SFA's to pay first.

Not knowing much about how the SFA's insurance policy is set up... its possible that its a primary insurance (first in the chain of who pays.) The AMA's is secondary to allmost any other applicable policies. (they would normally pay last.)

Also... dual chartering creates all kinds of other problems of determining which organization's rules take precidence. (the most restrictive combination if you want both insurance programs to be effective...) If you are following the less restrictive organization's "Safety Code" (I don't know what the SFA calls theire minimum safety requirements for insurance coverage or what is in it... I do seem to remember it is less restrictive in some places... more restrictive in others.) you are inviting the more restrictive code to be ignored and thus voiding thier insurance.

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Essentially, the club created its problems with the AMA by adding the second organization's charter. In a way its suprising that they didn't ALSO create a major problem with the SFA...

See there you even caught a couple while you were reeling in...err.. I guess the last one just jumped on the bank and into the creel.

When I started with this thread, I was looking for a reason to join AMA. So far, I haven't found one. Maybe I should just start a new thread asking if ANYONE has ever PERSONALLY filed a claim w/ AMA insurance which was paid. Been around this hobby 12 yrs. off and on, and haven't heard of one yet. They SAY they have, but won't release the information. Why the hush-hush? Are they hiding the fact that there really is NO insurance? It all looks like a big scam to me. (Like that one better, Troll?)

Look at all the extra's you get! I' better quit while I'm ahead I fought the law and the low won.

Look at all the extra's you get! I' better quit while I'm ahead I fought the law and the low won.
[/quote]

Does that mean you have to change your user name?

Did you know that having dual indenties on RCU will get you in trouble?


Oh, and by the way Huber, you should have stopped at "I don't know". That pretty well sums up your post. The AMA insurance is not secondary, or thirdary, or fourthdary, it is "in excess". The AMA no longer allows dual charters. The SFA is out of business.

Hey the Troll, who is the better troll, Huber or crazystix?

I'm not changeing any thing. The RC Outlaw will keep hiding ,and AMA will keep well you figure it out, Politics and $$$$$$$$$$ better check you home owns before you go out could scare you to death. And I have yet to find the fine print in ama.

You don't need a AMA card to fly, only if you want to fly at a AMA chartered club facility. any other place is open to you without AMA membership. If you are an AMA menber you are covered wherever you fly.

Thanx rctrax, that's the answer to my original question. It didn't used to be that way.AMA would only cover you at an AMA field.SFA would cover you anywhere. I doubt it will change my mind about flying outlaw, though. If I found a nearby club where fun was allaowed, and it happened to be an AMA club, that might do it. By the way, I'm not in HI. I'm in FL. Don't know how that got there.

Sorry... tha AMA insurance has ALWAYS been valid as long as you flew within AMA safety code rules. Where in the safety code does it specify you have to be at an AMA chartered club's facility? (nowhere)

Since 1938 (when the AMA first offered insurance as an option) its ben the same. anywhee an AMA member flys... he or she is covered.

Hmmm.... guess I was misinformed somewhere along the line. But, about this "insurance coverage"... is it real? Still no first hand reports of paid claims. Why the big secret? Maybe Dave Brown doesn't NEED a salary 'cause he's pocketing your "insurance" money for himself?

>>>>>>Thanx rctrax, that's the answer to my original question. It didn't used to be that way.AMA would only cover you at an AMA field<<<<<

That's something I did not know. I have been active in AMA politics for over 30 years and a member for 50+ years and I never knew that.[X(]


>>>>By the way, I'm not in HI. I'm in FL. Don't know how that got there.<<<<<<<<

It could possibly be because you signed in your "Profile" with HI in the city/state selection.

FH has more experience and crazystix shows some real aptitude and potential… but both seem to paint themselves in a corner to often…time will tell. Either way I am proud to have them both in the brotherhood.

Apparently you missed a post. Huber replied...

Sorry... tha AMA insurance has ALWAYS been valid as long as you flew within AMA safety code rules. Where in the safety code does it specify you have to be at an AMA chartered club's facility? (nowhere)

Since 1938 (when the AMA first offered insurance as an option) its ben the same. anywhee an AMA member flys... he or she is covered.

So anyway, if I'm wrong I'm wrong. Clearing this up was my original intention with this thread. But as I started typing, it kind of turned into "Who the hell cares, anyway?" And then I started getting actual responses. That NEVER happens. Well, hardly ever.

No one can get it through their heads that IT IS SECONDARY . If your primary Ins. does not cover all the claim then AMA will kick in very unlikely

[8D]

And your point is? Huber is like a deer-hunter with a shotgun. He may hit the target, but most often he simply tears up the subject which becomes much less than it should be and ends in a miserable heap of rot.

Huber is a bit confused in his history. AMA insurance, as we know it, was set into motion by AMA President Johnny Clemens back in early '70s. It basically kept AMA from decomposing as the insurance and Charter Club program gave AMA something to sell. It's still all they have of any significance within this spoiled contemporary society and the Charter Clubs remain as the conscripted slave-labor sales force.

The Safety Code came into place in the '80s. Prior to the SC, the AMA Competition Regulations ("Rule Book") set the standard for Insurance Coverage. AMA insurance was provided the AMA member at any place of operation long before the SC became the manifesto of wanna'-be power brokers.

There are several effectively public instances of AMA PAID liability claims you can find on the Internet, should you care to search. Pointers to at least one of them can be found if you search posts to this forum for the last year. Other kinds of claims (injuries resulting in medical work) have been made, at least one by a close friend of mine when he was out of work and a prop ate up his hand.

That should be a reasonable answer to the second half of your original question.

would you like me to scan in the article from the 1938 Flying Aces issue where the insurance was first offered?[>:] I have the issue. It was a fairly low value policy. 50 cents a year for $200 liability. The explaination was it was intended to cover things like a plane hitting a car and breaking the windshield.

The AMA has had some insurance available as an option or as a basic part of membership ever since.

***************

The AMA has had some form of safety code for just about as long.... I think I could come up with some 1930's to 1940's editions that list that too.

please do...btw Hoss's caveat "as we know it" is key.

I am wondering if the fence posts around you ever win an argument.

Lighten up some...your ego can use the rest.

Sure, scan it. Oh, and while your at it, be sure to scan the Safety Code you say you have always had to obey for it to provide coverage. Be sure it is something that shows the link between the safety code as is now the case. You know, like "I understand that my failure to comply with the Safety Code may endanger my insurance coverage." Something that shows the link between the safety code and insurance back then.

Make sure it supports your statement that:" Sorry... tha AMA insurance has ALWAYS been valid as long as you flew within AMA safety code rules."

Take a couple days to go through and find the correct mags... No catalog of the articles.

I spent all day today flying. No time to mess with looking for the articles. Tomorrow looks like its pretty well booked too.