Recent BPL Developments
07-03-2004 | 07:01 AM
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From: Brandon,
MB, CANADA
Recent BPL Developments
Hi.
I am a first time poster but a long time lurker. I received this information from another list that I belong to but thought it might be of interest to people here.
mgaddison
I am a first time poster but a long time lurker. I received this information from another list that I belong to but thought it might be of interest to people here.
==>UTILITY CUTS SHORT BPL TRIAL THAT WAS TARGET OF AMATEUR COMPLAINTS
Alliant Energy has called an early end to its broadband over power line
(BPL) pilot project in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. The "evaluation system" went live March 30, and plans called for keeping it active until August or September. Alliant shut it down June 25. Ongoing, unresolved HF interference from the system to retired engineer Jim Spencer, W0SR, and other amateurs prompted the ARRL to file a complaint to the FCC on Spencer's behalf demanding it be shut down and the utility fined.
Alliant Energy's BPL Project Leader Dan Hinz says the ARRL complaint "certainly was a factor" in the utility's decision to pull the plug prematurely but "not the overriding factor." The main reason, he said, was that Alliant accomplished most of its objectives ahead of schedule. The primary purpose of the Cedar Rapids evaluation was to gain an understanding of BPL technology and what issues might be involved in a real-world deployment, Hinz explained. But, he added, regulatory uncertainty and other unspecified technical issues also factored into the choice to end the pilot early.
Hinz said Alliant is "moshing the data" to compile a written evaluation of the Cedar Rapids pilot, but the company has no plans at this point to move forward with BPL. Alliant did not partner with a broadband services provider, and it has no other BPL test systems in operation. The system used Amperion BPL equipment.
According to Spencer, five fixed Amateur Radio stations within proximity of the BPL evaluation system and two mobile stations formally reported BPL interference on HF. "The radio amateurs and Alliant Energy cooperated by sharing interference information," he said. "Alliant Energy turned the BPL evaluation system off twice to allow collection of extensive BPL frequency and signal level data--with and without BPL." He said Alliant and Amperion tried various "notching" schemes to rid amateur frequencies of the BPL interference with only limited success.
The system included both overhead and underground BPL links to feed 2.4 GHz wireless "hot spots" for end user access. Hinz said the area's topography presented some challenges, especially with the wireless links.
"I think in the end, we actually over-challenged ourselves with this specific pilot location," he said. And, despite "substantial progress" in mitigating interference, Alliant decided at this point that "it wasn't worth the extra effort" to resolve the thornier technical issues, Hinz added.
As for any broader implications, Hinz says he's always viewed BPL as a "strategic deployment technology," not one a company could roll out just anywhere and expect to be competitive with existing broadband services such as cable and DSL. "At least that's how we were looking at it," he said. "You have to find the right areas with the right topography with the right concentration of certain types of customers," he said.
"It's never been in my mind that BPL has to compete with the speeds of cable today," Hinz added. "It has to compete with the speeds of cable and the next best thing tomorrow as well, if it's going to be usable well into the future." He hinted that Alliant might want to take another look at BPL once the FCC has put BPL rules and regulations into place, and the technology has further evolved.
The ARRL's formal complaint to FCC Enforcement Bureau Chief David H.
Solomon called on the Commission not only to close down Alliant's BPL field trial system but to fine the utility $10,000 for violating the Communications Act of 1934 and FCC Part 15 rules. Commenting on the termination of the Cedar Rapids BPL trial, ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, pointed out that Alliant had tried for more than 12 weeks to fix the interference problem to a station 600 feet from its installation.
"In the end," Sumner said, "the interference was not eliminated except by shutting down the BPL system. Could the case against BPL deployment be any clearer?"
Spencer said he was happy with Alliant's decision, and he was gracious in expressing appreciation to the utility for working with him. "And thanks also to the ARRL and the Cedar Rapids BPL Steering Committee for their knowledge and efforts in making a truly professional evaluation," he added.
Still outstanding are some chronic power line noise problems Spencer has experienced.
For additional information, visit the "Broadband Over Power Line (BPL) and Amateur Radio" page on the ARRL Web site <http://www.arrl.org/bpl>. To support the League's efforts in this area, visit the ARRL's secure BPL Web site <https://www.arrl.org/forms/developme...tions/bpl/>.
Alliant Energy has called an early end to its broadband over power line
(BPL) pilot project in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. The "evaluation system" went live March 30, and plans called for keeping it active until August or September. Alliant shut it down June 25. Ongoing, unresolved HF interference from the system to retired engineer Jim Spencer, W0SR, and other amateurs prompted the ARRL to file a complaint to the FCC on Spencer's behalf demanding it be shut down and the utility fined.
Alliant Energy's BPL Project Leader Dan Hinz says the ARRL complaint "certainly was a factor" in the utility's decision to pull the plug prematurely but "not the overriding factor." The main reason, he said, was that Alliant accomplished most of its objectives ahead of schedule. The primary purpose of the Cedar Rapids evaluation was to gain an understanding of BPL technology and what issues might be involved in a real-world deployment, Hinz explained. But, he added, regulatory uncertainty and other unspecified technical issues also factored into the choice to end the pilot early.
Hinz said Alliant is "moshing the data" to compile a written evaluation of the Cedar Rapids pilot, but the company has no plans at this point to move forward with BPL. Alliant did not partner with a broadband services provider, and it has no other BPL test systems in operation. The system used Amperion BPL equipment.
According to Spencer, five fixed Amateur Radio stations within proximity of the BPL evaluation system and two mobile stations formally reported BPL interference on HF. "The radio amateurs and Alliant Energy cooperated by sharing interference information," he said. "Alliant Energy turned the BPL evaluation system off twice to allow collection of extensive BPL frequency and signal level data--with and without BPL." He said Alliant and Amperion tried various "notching" schemes to rid amateur frequencies of the BPL interference with only limited success.
The system included both overhead and underground BPL links to feed 2.4 GHz wireless "hot spots" for end user access. Hinz said the area's topography presented some challenges, especially with the wireless links.
"I think in the end, we actually over-challenged ourselves with this specific pilot location," he said. And, despite "substantial progress" in mitigating interference, Alliant decided at this point that "it wasn't worth the extra effort" to resolve the thornier technical issues, Hinz added.
As for any broader implications, Hinz says he's always viewed BPL as a "strategic deployment technology," not one a company could roll out just anywhere and expect to be competitive with existing broadband services such as cable and DSL. "At least that's how we were looking at it," he said. "You have to find the right areas with the right topography with the right concentration of certain types of customers," he said.
"It's never been in my mind that BPL has to compete with the speeds of cable today," Hinz added. "It has to compete with the speeds of cable and the next best thing tomorrow as well, if it's going to be usable well into the future." He hinted that Alliant might want to take another look at BPL once the FCC has put BPL rules and regulations into place, and the technology has further evolved.
The ARRL's formal complaint to FCC Enforcement Bureau Chief David H.
Solomon called on the Commission not only to close down Alliant's BPL field trial system but to fine the utility $10,000 for violating the Communications Act of 1934 and FCC Part 15 rules. Commenting on the termination of the Cedar Rapids BPL trial, ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, pointed out that Alliant had tried for more than 12 weeks to fix the interference problem to a station 600 feet from its installation.
"In the end," Sumner said, "the interference was not eliminated except by shutting down the BPL system. Could the case against BPL deployment be any clearer?"
Spencer said he was happy with Alliant's decision, and he was gracious in expressing appreciation to the utility for working with him. "And thanks also to the ARRL and the Cedar Rapids BPL Steering Committee for their knowledge and efforts in making a truly professional evaluation," he added.
Still outstanding are some chronic power line noise problems Spencer has experienced.
For additional information, visit the "Broadband Over Power Line (BPL) and Amateur Radio" page on the ARRL Web site <http://www.arrl.org/bpl>. To support the League's efforts in this area, visit the ARRL's secure BPL Web site <https://www.arrl.org/forms/developme...tions/bpl/>.
07-07-2004 | 02:41 PM
#4
RE: Recent BPL Developments
The main reason, he said, was that Alliant accomplished most of its objectives ahead of schedule. The primary purpose of the Cedar Rapids evaluation was to gain an understanding of BPL technology and what issues might be involved in a real-world deployment, Hinz explained. But, he added, regulatory uncertainty and other unspecified technical issues also factored into the choice to end the pilot early.
07-07-2004 | 11:50 PM
#5
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Recent BPL Developments
Excuse me? I don't understand your comments.
Sport Pilot,
I think you might be more right that wrong. We can tell that there were unexpected problems, and that is what we have expected. Well except for the power companies, the FCC, and the little crankshaft guy...
Sport Pilot,
I think you might be more right that wrong. We can tell that there were unexpected problems, and that is what we have expected. Well except for the power companies, the FCC, and the little crankshaft guy...
07-08-2004 | 12:59 AM
#6
RE: Recent BPL Developments
ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum
Excuse me? I don't understand your comments.
Excuse me? I don't understand your comments.
HMMM...
ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum
Hey Horrible,
That one about whose money is it was not J_R's 'fact', but MINE. I strongly suggest that you find out exactly who this AMA entity is before someone calls you an idjiot.
By the way, the last time*I* checked, I AM the AMA so that makes it MY money. Your constant carping on the subject is convincing many that you are now against us. Can you prove differently?
To further burst your bubble, I hardly think any of us are 'in the corner' of any candidate or sitting AMA officer. No matter how much you say it, or how loudly you yell it, a falsehood never becomes true.
Your concerns about the IRS bit are interesting, but I think that promises to be fun for the entire nation! I don't think there will be many organizations that will be permantly impacted by that planned audit process. A little pain for some but, like gas, most of it will pass. Bet you will enjoy it.
Hey Horrible,
That one about whose money is it was not J_R's 'fact', but MINE. I strongly suggest that you find out exactly who this AMA entity is before someone calls you an idjiot.
By the way, the last time*I* checked, I AM the AMA so that makes it MY money. Your constant carping on the subject is convincing many that you are now against us. Can you prove differently?
To further burst your bubble, I hardly think any of us are 'in the corner' of any candidate or sitting AMA officer. No matter how much you say it, or how loudly you yell it, a falsehood never becomes true.
Your concerns about the IRS bit are interesting, but I think that promises to be fun for the entire nation! I don't think there will be many organizations that will be permantly impacted by that planned audit process. A little pain for some but, like gas, most of it will pass. Bet you will enjoy it.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_19...tm.htm#1967427
ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum
Sport Pilot,
I think you might be more right that wrong. We can tell that there were unexpected problems, and that is what we have expected. Well except for the power companies, the FCC, and the little crankshaft guy...
Sport Pilot,
I think you might be more right that wrong. We can tell that there were unexpected problems, and that is what we have expected. Well except for the power companies, the FCC, and the little crankshaft guy...
Now it is I that does not understand your comments![8D] Can you explain as clearly as I have?
07-08-2004 | 01:22 AM
#7
RE: Recent BPL Developments
ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum
Excuse me? I don't understand your comments.
Sport Pilot,
I think you might be more right that wrong. We can tell that there were unexpected problems, and that is what we have expected. Well except for the power companies, the FCC, and the little crankshaft guy...
Excuse me? I don't understand your comments.
Sport Pilot,
I think you might be more right that wrong. We can tell that there were unexpected problems, and that is what we have expected. Well except for the power companies, the FCC, and the little crankshaft guy...
I re-read your comments and although unexpected I expected that inference from you
Anyway just to set the record straight I have written many more letters to concerned parties about BPL than you to the AMA about well heeled arrogant Jet pilots and how they should be banned....so there.
07-08-2004 | 10:29 AM
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From: Spencerport, NY
RE: Recent BPL Developments
What part of "no personal attacks" do you people not understand? If you can't make your point using facts and logic, you've got no point to make.
07-10-2004 | 11:12 AM
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From: Brandon,
MB, CANADA
RE: Recent BPL Developments
ORIGINAL: J_R
mgaddison
Great post with very good information.
At least the bickering keeps the thread at the top of the forum.
JR
mgaddison
Great post with very good information.
At least the bickering keeps the thread at the top of the forum.
JR
Thanks
I am in the telecommunications field and have been following this. I live in Canada and I haven't heard of it being tested here but we do seem to follow what is done in the US. I don't want to loose my favorite hobby due to potential interference from BPL.
Technologies like this do seem to know any borders so it could come here as well if the tests are successful. With the spread out population in my area, this service could be of use here.
mgaddison
07-10-2004 | 09:13 PM
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RE: Recent BPL Developments
07-11-2004 | 06:46 PM
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From: Weymouth,
MA
That VIDEO at the ARRL site is scary...
Dear MGaddison:
The PIPE here...and from what I saw in the VIDEO available at the ARRL site for "streaming" video, at http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/200...and-HF-web.mpg (advisory here...it is a 20 megabyte file!!!) that "bipple" (my "acronymic" pronounciation for 'BPL') idea of broadband over POWER LINES is
REAL scary stuff!
The whole section that ARRL has on "bipple" Internet connectivity being a DREADFUL mistake is at http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/ ...for those who do want to read it all...it's a BIG page...!
Portions of the video I've given the link for showed how BADLY Ham communications were affected...and that interference existed all the way from just under 1.0 MHz to nearly 100 MHz, which WOULD have the chance of wiping out the RC hobby for ALL TOO MANY
people...and NOT just in the USA, but ALSO in Japan and MANY parts of Europe (where BPL HAS been tried-and found to be a DISMAL failure due to radio frequency interference!).
And I was not the SLIGHTEST bit surprised to see in that linked 20 megabyte video, that our current US president is "apparently supporting" this mistaken idea of Internet connectivity...which could be a reason to vote for a "certain US Senator
from the Bay State" to take his place...
Thankfully broadband cable Internet and ADSL seems to be the BIG answers up here in New England "so far" for "high-speed" Internet connectivity...JUST so long as THOSE two forms of connectivity do NOT involve, at ANY point along the line, the "bipple boondoggle" that would WIPE OUT a number of much-enjoyed hobbies in our nation!!!
From what I read at the ARRL site, I DID see a solution to the inadvisable adoption of the "bipple boondoggle"...that idea of "fiber-to-the-home", which involves bringing fiber optic communicatons lines into EVERYONE'S house, and THAT is something that would be a GREAT idea
to have happen in the New England area before very much longer, from what I would guess is being said about it in my area...
I've been a Tech class Ham licensee here in the USA since 1978, and got my General class "paper upgrade" on April 15th of this year, from previous Ham testing element requirements that had me passing the 5 word-pre-minute Morse Code test just over 25 years ago...and I DO NOT WANT to lose what HAS been an enjoyable pastime AND sport, to this MISTAKEN
"bipple BOONDOGGLE" idea of Internet connectivity..!
Yours Sincerely,
The PIPE!
The PIPE here...and from what I saw in the VIDEO available at the ARRL site for "streaming" video, at http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/200...and-HF-web.mpg (advisory here...it is a 20 megabyte file!!!) that "bipple" (my "acronymic" pronounciation for 'BPL') idea of broadband over POWER LINES is
REAL scary stuff!The whole section that ARRL has on "bipple" Internet connectivity being a DREADFUL mistake is at http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/ ...for those who do want to read it all...it's a BIG page...!
Portions of the video I've given the link for showed how BADLY Ham communications were affected...and that interference existed all the way from just under 1.0 MHz to nearly 100 MHz, which WOULD have the chance of wiping out the RC hobby for ALL TOO MANY
people...and NOT just in the USA, but ALSO in Japan and MANY parts of Europe (where BPL HAS been tried-and found to be a DISMAL failure due to radio frequency interference!). And I was not the SLIGHTEST bit surprised to see in that linked 20 megabyte video, that our current US president is "apparently supporting" this mistaken idea of Internet connectivity...which could be a reason to vote for a "certain US Senator
from the Bay State" to take his place...Thankfully broadband cable Internet and ADSL seems to be the BIG answers up here in New England "so far" for "high-speed" Internet connectivity...JUST so long as THOSE two forms of connectivity do NOT involve, at ANY point along the line, the "bipple boondoggle" that would WIPE OUT a number of much-enjoyed hobbies in our nation!!!
From what I read at the ARRL site, I DID see a solution to the inadvisable adoption of the "bipple boondoggle"...that idea of "fiber-to-the-home", which involves bringing fiber optic communicatons lines into EVERYONE'S house, and THAT is something that would be a GREAT idea
to have happen in the New England area before very much longer, from what I would guess is being said about it in my area...I've been a Tech class Ham licensee here in the USA since 1978, and got my General class "paper upgrade" on April 15th of this year, from previous Ham testing element requirements that had me passing the 5 word-pre-minute Morse Code test just over 25 years ago...and I DO NOT WANT to lose what HAS been an enjoyable pastime AND sport, to this MISTAKEN
"bipple BOONDOGGLE" idea of Internet connectivity..! Yours Sincerely,
The PIPE!
07-11-2004 | 07:34 PM
#19
RE: Recent BPL Developments
And I was not the SLIGHTEST bit surprised to see in that linked 20 megabyte video, that our current US president is "apparently supporting" this mistaken idea of Internet connectivity...which could be a reason to vote for a "certain US Senator from the Bay State" to take his place...
07-12-2004 | 08:16 AM
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From: Escondido, CA
RE: Recent BPL Developments
As an amateur radio operator for 45 years and an R/C'er for 20 or so, I am not overly concerned about BPL's potential for interference, especially to R/C. I'll stick my neck out a bit here and predict that BPL will not enjoy widespread implementation for a number of technical and economic reasons and will probably die a quick death. That does not mean, however that we should stop pressure against BPL and give the industry carte blance to pollute the airwaves while we await the wake.
I believe BPL will be one of those technologies that gets leapfrogged and quickly supplanted by an emerging technology which provides more bang for the buck. Many here (most?) are familar with WiFi (IEEE 802.11) which provides wireless networking in the workplace, the home, hotels, airports, etc over a limited area. A new technology known as WiMax (IEEE 802.16) is being rolled out which will provide wireless broadband internet access over large areas (up to 30 miles line of sight) without need for fiber optics, copper cable, or satellite link. WiMax operates at frequencies well above those of interest to R/C'ers and most amateurs. A good overview, obviously from Intel's industry perspective, can be found at: http://www.intel.com/netcomms/bbw/index.htm for those interested interested in the technical details.
Steve Kerrin
I believe BPL will be one of those technologies that gets leapfrogged and quickly supplanted by an emerging technology which provides more bang for the buck. Many here (most?) are familar with WiFi (IEEE 802.11) which provides wireless networking in the workplace, the home, hotels, airports, etc over a limited area. A new technology known as WiMax (IEEE 802.16) is being rolled out which will provide wireless broadband internet access over large areas (up to 30 miles line of sight) without need for fiber optics, copper cable, or satellite link. WiMax operates at frequencies well above those of interest to R/C'ers and most amateurs. A good overview, obviously from Intel's industry perspective, can be found at: http://www.intel.com/netcomms/bbw/index.htm for those interested interested in the technical details.
Steve Kerrin
07-12-2004 | 08:42 AM
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From: Clifton,
NJ
RE: Recent BPL Developments
"The fact that the our President has been missinformed about BPL is no reason to vote for a liberial socialist who is trying to come off as a right winger! "
There's every reason, BPL is just one of many.
There's every reason, BPL is just one of many.
07-12-2004 | 09:30 AM
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From: Arvada,
CO
RE: Recent BPL Developments
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
The fact that the our President has been missinformed about BPL is no reason to vote for a liberial socialist who is trying to come off as a right winger! I would vote for Bush even if he forces BPL down our throat. There are things more important than radio communications and even model airplanes!
And I was not the SLIGHTEST bit surprised to see in that linked 20 megabyte video, that our current US president is "apparently supporting" this mistaken idea of Internet connectivity...which could be a reason to vote for a "certain US Senator from the Bay State" to take his place...
