This should be easy, as the Videogame generation should be able to pick up flying fairly easy...any input as to what to do with this??..

I consider myself to be of the Video game generation and I am 41. I think we need to aim quite a bit lower that that!

pricing is an issue....bigger planes cost money..more than most kids can afford. planes can crash leaving you with nothing where video games don't crash. If pricing of parkflyers continues where it is and stabilization systems continue to proliferate I think the younger generations will begin to "buy in". The other hard part is the lack of flying fields in many areas as well as the lack of well equipped hobby stores.

Talk about the chicken and egg! The bad thing about flying fields is that they are easy to get for the electric flyer IF he has a club to 'hide' behind.

The way to get the VG into the game is to encourage the development of e birds which generally don't have the noise issues many fight. There are 2 or 3 steps in that line that are not easy.

First is making e flight common enough that the power questions can be answered by the 'average joe' at the field WITHOUT MOTOCALC! The second is to make e flight common enough that the guys with high dollar birds don't sneer at the e flyers. That is beginning to happen today with the LiPo cells making the e flyer more than flash in the pan. The third is to get the e flyers to join and become active in clubs. Hard to do when AMA membership and club membership for a year is more than the cost of some e birds.

Wonder how Dave will answer this one.

BINGO!

Hate to hijack a thread intended as a question for Dave but Jim's comments are spot on. I entered in this sport when I was 20 years old and going to college. I flew in an open field with a couple other R/C pilots that guided me. No membership dues No required AMA. At that time If I would have had to pay for both of those along with purchasing equipment, I can honestly tell you I'd very likely have different hobby today.

euthanise everyone over 60.

harsh indeed, but it will bring down the average age.

probably get rid of most of the field nazi problems as well<G>

Mongo,
That IS one way to do it, but I think it would be better for all if we did something less radical. Something would be lowering AMA dues DRAMATICALLY.

Maybe if MA was a profit center and we stopped adding to the white elephant in Muncie there would enough income and less costs so we could lower dues. Fancy that! Remember how many times dues have gone up in the last 12 years? I wonder how many can recall all the stories we were told as the reasons for each and every dues increase. . . . I do.

Jim, that noise you hear is applause. [sm=thumbup.gif]

How about making the magazine optional? MA says that $18 of the dues are for the subscription. So let me pay $40 and save 10 lbs a year from going to the local landfill.[&:]

I like the mag. Especially the new additions that seem a little more relevant. I have done my part in lowering the age, I am 37 and my son is 5. By the way he has been a member since he was 1 1/2.. When my daughter gets there she will also be a member. How many old f-rts does that add up to? All meant in fun.

Cost cutting...

Neither of these is huge, but little steps are better than no steps at all

Eliminate the 'national flying site' that most of us will never even see, much less actually use.
Allow the museum to succeed or fail on its own; no subsidy.



I've read that certain communications are required of nonprofit orgs and the magazine covers those requirements, so it shouldn't be eliminated only to be replaced with other mailings.

One of the biggest problems we face is how to reverse the trend of an aging membership. I don’t think there’s any one thing we can point to as a cure. It will take a major effort in several areas.

We can start with education. Our Education Committee is working to get programs placed in schools to introduce students to modeling. Up where I am, when my son was in middle school, they had a several week program, as part of the weekly curriculum that involved building and flying models. Programs like these can plant the interest in model aviation into these kids.

We need to recognize, like it or not, that hundreds of thousands of these “toy� park flyers are being sold. The majority are being sold for use by teenagers and younger. We need to recognize that this may be an opportunity. We need a marketing program to reach out to this group. Our Introductory Membership Program is a start. If we can introduce this target group to the more traditional form of model aviation I think a fair percentage of them will have enough of an interest to “cross over�. Include in this marketing program some of our outstanding young pilots like Andrew Jesky, someone kids can relate to.

But it will still take something to spark an interest that is both challenging and exciting to fly; yet still priced within the reach of most. I think we have to look at some of the new electric models that have reached the market in the last year or two. Electrics could be the key to our growing the organization. Some of these models have all the traits necessary to attract the group we’re going after. Many are reasonably priced, they’re quiet, many are able to take the abuse dished out during the learning stage, and the challenge of learning to fly is there. I have a 15-year-old son. Kids today are into “Extreme Anything�. They will soon get bored with that $50 park flyer that they bought. But show them something like what took place in Toledo this year at the ETOC and they’re interest is going to be peaked. Once they have that interest some will remain E modelers but a percentage will gravitate toward other styles of modeling.

And finally, our members and clubs have to have a willingness to introduce the hobby to the younger generation. I know many do, most with good results.

Don’t worry about “hijacking� the thread. Maybe something will come out of kicking around ideas.
Dave

I think most of it will change when fathers spend time with their children. Most guys over 57 years old either got into it after their kids were gone or got into building and flying with their fathers as kids. We can't expect AMA to make a policy that forces society to change family values. However AMA can take a look at the overall friendliness of clubs and support those that welcome new flyers young or old. I know the first club I tried had a bunch of old codgers that could care less if my son and I were there or not. Incedently that club lost their field and for a short time shared the one I am a member of, and still brought the cr--py attitude with them. Thankfully they are stinking the air up somewhere else now. The club I did join (proudly West Hickory Aero Modelers, WHAM) has treated my son like their own. But I still see predjudice tward younger ones and teens at times and feel sorry for how they were treated. The question to be asked is how do you feel about sharing with youger ones, both teaching and sharing, and putting up with their brand of flying. Keep in mind most of them will want to go from a firebird to a 300 Extra. Remember how you were as a kid.

Hi Vic,
Well, I think I have a pretty good history of working with kids. I'm involved in the EAA Young Eagles program as a "Century Club" member. As part of that program I've given well over 100 kids a ride in a GA aircraft. I've been an adviser to an Aviation Explorer Post based out of our airport. Several times a year we have Boy Scouts camp on the AP. A couple years ago we were hosts to a Boy Scout camporee that attracted nearly 500 Scouts. Each one that wanted got to fly an RC model. For the last few years I've been working with a group of kids from Syracuse University as part of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics Design, Build, and Fly program. On top of this I have a 15 year old son. He doesn't dress like me, we don't like the same music (trust me on this); he's his own person. I'm not so far detached from this generation that I don't have a reasonable understanding of what catches their interest. And I think we have to allow them enough latitude to let them "do their own thing" otherwise they'll become quickly bored and look for something else to do that presents more of a challenge.
Dave

Our club this year started an Intro Pilot Program. We got a couple of trainers donated to the club by local hobby shops, with the understanding that when someone is in the shops looking, they will send them to us for a "try before you buy program". This gets people started on the right foot and tends to generate more trainer sales for the LHS other than the aerobird type planes. Once an interested prospect experiences flight on the four channel trainers, the aerobird does not seem too attractive any more. It also allows the parents of kids to be sure the kids are gonna stay with it before they plunk down 300 to 500 bucks on a plane. Under the Intro Pilot Program though the AMA they can fly with an into pilot for 30 days and not spend a dime. This program should be used my more clubs as a way to get more young people involved.

Terry

Dave, Some of us 'old geezers' live in too far from AMA headquarters to ever visit, don't do competition flying and never even hear from an AMA VP, or official other than our club officers. If we don't have AMA on the top of our minds, how can the younger 'newbie'? The introductory membership is a great step, now we need to follow it up by selling (I know it doesn't sound politically correct) AMA membership and modeling to the 20 to 40 year old generation. We seem to focus on the kids and then forget to sustain the dream through the following years.

What's the image of our hobby at that age? The ‘RC Hobbies’ program on TV? A national flying site that they don't know about? Programs for the benefit of existing members, unknown beyond our membership? Maybe the occasional (usually bad) media coverage of modeling? - I don't know. Then again, I'm not running for office either. I talk to fellow workers who seem interested, teach at our club and try to encourage the new members at our club. Come to think of it, if each of us generated one new hobbyist under 30 years of age each year, we would be talking about expansion rather than growing old. My 2¢ worth.

quint

Hi Terry,
Sounds like a great program that can be a win/win for the club, the hobby shop, and even the prospective newcomer. Exactly what I meant when I said clubs have to have a willingness to step up and become involved. Like you we've found the same thing up here. Kids get quickly bored with a simple low end park flyer once they get a taste of the more traditional form of modeling. And by starting the newcomer off this way, with help, it minimizes the chances of him/her becoming discouraged and moving on.

BTW, I've flown at your field a few times. I used to come down to your Pattern Contest when Ted Westerman was the CD. And I sold one of my pattern planes to Ron Sonderegger who I think was in your club.
Dave

Yes Ron is still in the club in fact I replaced him this year as president. Our Pattern contest this year is this weekend. Don Sczcur is the co-cd. You are welcome anytime to visit our club.

We are having a Social after the flying Saturday evening. We'd love for you to join us if you can make it. The club will pay for your room.

I also would like to congratulate you on taking the effort to come to the boards and have open communication with the membership. This is what is needed in the AMA to maintain a strong membership. We as members need to feel that we have some input into the organization that we belong to and help finance. You certainly have my vote.

Terry

Our club hosts a few events over the course of a year that is directly a promotion to the public. When talking with non-modelers that show an interest one can guess the most common questions… How high? How fast? How far? Then of course the 100% guarantee question how much?

Most people will stay interested through typical cost of a trainer, radio gear, and basic equipment. However as soon as you mention club cost such as yearly dues, initiation and AMA that is where we lose young people (20’s early 30’s). It’s typically 40 and up that end up joining.

A new member in our club will have to pay $163 for all that I mentioned above. According to a recent census by our club treasure, we have one of the lowest dues and initiation fees in our area.

Too many people in this nation are living beyond their means as it is and will likely avoid a hobby that cost $100 per year just for memberships.

I don't think the initial cost is a valid reason for young people not wanting to Participate...Just look at what they spend $$$ on over a year..Cable TV..Internet access, Cell Phones, and or pagers, (this is assuming they aren't living with mommy and daddy). among other things...the disposable income is there....X Box games are 50 bux a pop...these kids finish them in a few days...the cost can be comparable over a years time (assume 10 games a year...about 500 bux a year)..thats a complete trainer setup...


I think the generation gap is a very big issue (most young fold have nothing in common with a 70 year old guy that stinks half the time, and is codgy and grumpy and all knowing)...yes, I am stereotyping old guys, but the shoe fits most of the time. Maybe 10% of the older guys like to help, enjoy seeing young guys/kids flying...

We have a bunch of guys at our field that are out in the AM (every day from 8 am till noon), they assemble their planes, and criticize whoever is flying.....and almost EVERYONE I talked to told me to stay away at that time, they will just pick on you, and be douchebags, etc, etc....well, I'm always game for a little screwing with jerks,lol..so I went out, and did not seem to have any of that kind of problem...maybe I am more intimidating (I am 6'4!QUOT! and 320 Pounds) and fly Giant scale planes (Comp ARF 2.6M DA 100)...This kind of thing hurts everyone in my opinion...

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the invite but I'll have to pass this time around. I'll be on Long Island from Thursday until Sunday for a club meeting then an RC Combat event at Defense Hill, then Warbirds Over Brooklyn.
Dave

Hi Bill,
I've heard that argument. Don't we have to ask ourselves, "What are we doing wrong?" if prospective new members really think that? Think about it. You can't buy 2 video games for $100. Stores can't keep the popular ones in stock. I've golfed and shot (at, the operative word) skeet. You can't join a golf or gun club for anywhere near $100 annual dues around here (not including membership to a national organization), but I see a fair number of younger members joining. My son is into paintball. I go down and watch him play. The fields are packed with teenagers and young adults. You can't buy a membership to the facility for $100 a year and the cost of membership is almost insignificant compared to the cost of markers, equipment, and paint, etc. So, while I agree with you that the excuse we here too often is, "it's too expensive", I don't know if it's a legitimate excuse.
Dave

Hi Quint,
Well, politically correct or not, I think you're right. We need to promote and market model aviation if we want to grow. And we need to realize who we're trying to reach. The "younger generation" may not be intrigued by a slow flyer poking around the sky. But show them some of the things their peers (kids their age) like Andrew Jesky, John Glezelis, and Danny Landis are doing and I'll bet that'll spark an interest. I keep mentioning the ETOC at Toledo this year, and whether some like the style of flying or not, I believe that this style has the potential to do more to increase our numbers than any other thing that's come along in years. Bob Hunt wrote about this in his column in MA a few months ago and he was right on target.
Dave

Hi Cd,
Like you, I don't think $$$$ is the big issue and I think it's fair to say that most teenagers won't have a lot of interest in going out to the field to hangout with guys old enough to be their grandfather. They're more apt to have an interest if they have a couple firends their own age to fly with. And it's almost a sure bet they're going to want to fly something a little more "radical" than some of the rest of us. We either need to allow them the latitude to do that, safely within reason, or they'll soon find something else to do.
Dave

Well... I have done a lot of thought on this and the younger generation.. I have a 6 year old boy, when I was that age I was ENGROSSED with flight... then again I was watching the Apollo rockets take off and go to the moon for the first time, that made flight seem dangerous and exotic at the same time, flight was not something that was taken for granted, there were no $100 round trip tickets to Orlando, flight was still something special.

Now I look at my boy, he only knows that there are planes in the sky, and they have always been there, no big deal... There is no fascination with flight, rocket launches well those happen every month (well under normal circumstances) and where are they going well, they are going to circle the earth a few thousand times.

What did I do to get him somewhat interested in RC, I bought a car, he loves that and hopefully it will spark his interest in the planes since I take him to the field with me when I fly, but only time will tell on this one.

But I believe this is the root of the ageing RC community, planes are common place, and there is nothing exotic with them. Of course you will find the kid who is interested in the hobby and even has the parents who have the ability to buy him a plane, but now you have to look at who is going to teach him to fly, a 57.7 year old geezer who thinks this kid is a rich punk. When I got back into this hobby a few years ago *I* found it tough to get in a club, get some training and then show up on the weekends to fly, I would have to venture to guess that a kid would find that in formidable.

What do you need to do to overcome this, get the kids to the field and get them flying, work with the youth organizations, and find clubs who would be WILLING to help them out. The AMA has done their part by offering the $1 junior membership the clubs need to chip in as well by offering a lower membership fee, the planes are expensive enough never mind all the membership / club dues that they would have to pay.

As we all know once you get in this hobby it is totally addictive and there is no getting out once you get bit. I don’t know I may be totally off base here but this is my view of the world from my 50,000 foot vantage point!!!!

Mike

Mike,

I think you make quite a few good points. The one I agree with strongest is getting club support. Thought for Dave, is there a way to motivate clubs to be nicer? I can't answer that, you will not force people to accept things they don't like. In our club there are a few that have left for other places more receptive to 3D and helis. I caught alot of flack over flying estes rockets, even within AMA guide lines. My son's third or fourth word was "airmane", he learned how to count to ten by launching rockets, and loves to drive his rc truck in the yard. Like my other post parents need to spend time with their kids, weather it's fishing, painting, or flying that is how intrest in hobbies is started and cultivated. The video games are time consumers that work great for busy parents, I am sure there are a few that play them with their kids but most do not. Cost plays in but if there is a will there is a way. I tell my wife eveything cost 20 bucks. I think she is on to me though.

Thank you to those that do try to help with kids groups and promote the hobby, but I don't think we can blame AMA.