AMA EC Humor
12-15-2004, 04:06 PM
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AMA EC Humor
From October 30, 2994 EC meeting minutes:
The District V Vice President has requested additional district funding ($2,000) to assist her for the remainder of 2004; when she inherited the position, the funds were nearly depleted. No clear consensus was formed; the President may provide the funds from his 2004 budget, up to $2,000.
Mr. McNeill, D-V VP died May 21, 2004.
District V budget on the order of $15,000.
The District V Vice President has requested additional district funding ($2,000) to assist her for the remainder of 2004; when she inherited the position, the funds were nearly depleted. No clear consensus was formed; the President may provide the funds from his 2004 budget, up to $2,000.
Mr. McNeill, D-V VP died May 21, 2004.
District V budget on the order of $15,000.
12-15-2004, 04:09 PM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
Regarding Budget - EC meeting October 30, 2004
Concern was expressed over the $50k for frequency control boards at the National Flying Site.
For those that can't comprehend $50k frequecy control boards it might give you a great excuse to visit Muncie.[>:]
Concern was expressed over the $50k for frequency control boards at the National Flying Site. For those that can't comprehend $50k frequecy control boards it might give you a great excuse to visit Muncie.[>:]
12-15-2004, 08:49 PM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
Guess it's for the computer driven, large screen displays with a zillion remote indicator sites and a power backup grid. We build ships for the Navy down here and have sold $150,000 couches in them[:@] Gawd, I love the whole National Flying Site concept! #*@%*&
On the positive (?) side, maybe these things will encourage more backyard fliers, without AMA, etc.
quint
On the positive (?) side, maybe these things will encourage more backyard fliers, without AMA, etc.
quint
12-15-2004, 11:19 PM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
ORIGINAL: tailskid
Now guys, let's step back a minute and find out EXACTLY what boards are being bought for $50K and the whole story before jumping to conclusions.....
Jerry
Now guys, let's step back a minute and find out EXACTLY what boards are being bought for $50K and the whole story before jumping to conclusions.....
Jerry
Does it matter? Whatever they might be worth, I don't want to make that kind of investment in a site I'll never see. They can use clothespins marked with channel numbers like I do at the clubs I belong to, and probably like you do too. $50K could buy frequency control boards for all the 2000 or so chartered clubs at $25 a crack. I hear Nero fiddling........
Abel
12-16-2004, 08:59 PM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
this is the kind of crap that makes me sure this is my last year with
such a joke as the current AMA.[ IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE FOR
A VERY LONG TIME] IF EVER [ A GREAT DEAL FOR INDIANA ] THATS ALL.
[:@]
such a joke as the current AMA.[ IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE FOR
A VERY LONG TIME] IF EVER [ A GREAT DEAL FOR INDIANA ] THATS ALL.
[:@]
12-16-2004, 09:26 PM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
Not to mention the proposed $1.2m remote redundant information storage facility. They're going to need a whole lotta storage space for all those archived MA articles (not to mention DB's "shunned" list). That's going to use a few terrabytes of storage, just for that! :-)
P
P
12-17-2004, 01:56 AM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
If they spend 50K to develop a system that could be used at other fields where there are two fields in close proximity than I think it's worth it. If it was something that could be easily duplicated and had a broad purpose than I don't think it's a waste of money. Is NASA a waste of money when they design a space shuttle and the technology that comes from it benefits the country? How about a pylon racing light system to call cuts and count laps that could be manufactured cheaply from easily obtained technology? Would that be worth investing in if it trickled down to the local level? I think it would be a good use of the millions of dollars they have. You people need to think a little bigger than just complaining about every dime spent.
12-17-2004, 03:42 AM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
Why didn't you mention that I'm paying for research and developement? That makes everything OK
The problem is that any of the hundreds of electrical engineers within the AMA ranks could probably cobble a system together for far cheaper. The last time I looked, the AMA was not NASA (although some BIG thinkers would love it so), and we don't have the federal government to go to for appropriations. You hit it on the head with "that could be manufactured cheaply from easily obtained technology?". $50k is not "cheaply", and I resent the devil may care attitude to spending my dues income in this manner. (and I'll defend to the bitter end my rights to complain about it)
The problem is that any of the hundreds of electrical engineers within the AMA ranks could probably cobble a system together for far cheaper. The last time I looked, the AMA was not NASA (although some BIG thinkers would love it so), and we don't have the federal government to go to for appropriations. You hit it on the head with "that could be manufactured cheaply from easily obtained technology?". $50k is not "cheaply", and I resent the devil may care attitude to spending my dues income in this manner. (and I'll defend to the bitter end my rights to complain about it)
12-17-2004, 11:12 AM
#13
RE: AMA EC Humor
ORIGINAL: BasinBum
If they spend 50K to develop a system that could be used at other fields where there are two fields in close proximity than I think it's worth it. If it was something that could be easily duplicated and had a broad purpose than I don't think it's a waste of money. Is NASA a waste of money when they design a space shuttle and the technology that comes from it benefits the country? How about a pylon racing light system to call cuts and count laps that could be manufactured cheaply from easily obtained technology? Would that be worth investing in if it trickled down to the local level? I think it would be a good use of the millions of dollars they have. You people need to think a little bigger than just complaining about every dime spent.
If they spend 50K to develop a system that could be used at other fields where there are two fields in close proximity than I think it's worth it. If it was something that could be easily duplicated and had a broad purpose than I don't think it's a waste of money. Is NASA a waste of money when they design a space shuttle and the technology that comes from it benefits the country? How about a pylon racing light system to call cuts and count laps that could be manufactured cheaply from easily obtained technology? Would that be worth investing in if it trickled down to the local level? I think it would be a good use of the millions of dollars they have. You people need to think a little bigger than just complaining about every dime spent.
IMO, whatever AMA *DEVELOPS* will be like the infamous PYLON CAGES developed some time ago that were bullet proof. AMA expended several Form. 1 planes and equip. plus much cage-design for these cages. I forget just which year, and I ain't gonna' research it back, but it was not too long ago.
AMA made a number of the cages to be trucked around the country for AMA event Pylon Races. The money spent was considerable reaching well into the six figures if IRC.
In the first season here in TX, Waco or Austin area, a Q-40 decided it was better than a bullet, so it flew right through one side of the cage and almost out through the other side. It narrowly missed 3 occupants including a youngster in the preteen-age group who should have never been there, but was "protected" by modern AMA technology.
That's why there are no cages and judges on the course these days.
Frequency Boards at 50K are a waste of money. Ours is far nicer than the proverbial clothes-pin, works the same, and cost less than $200 with a good supply of replacement pins.
If your proposed light system is good for off-course judging, then develop it, patent it and make yourself some money. Don't use the funds of those that I contribute to. Then I will be thinking bigger.
12-17-2004, 11:45 AM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
The real problem with AMA is that we can gripe and complain all we want but 'THEY' don't take notice and the waste and mismanagement continues! I wonder how low the membership has to get to before 'THEY' stop growing the monument (A.K.A. the National Site) to flying in Muncie. Think we can get some of our money spent down here in the swamps? - Not likely!
Wish I had an answer, since all most of us are not competition types and only all we get (or want) out of AMA is the insurance... Where did I put my backyard flyer so I can soon step out of this mess?
quint
Wish I had an answer, since all most of us are not competition types and only all we get (or want) out of AMA is the insurance... Where did I put my backyard flyer so I can soon step out of this mess?
quint
12-17-2004, 05:27 PM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
Horrace,
A good way to go broke would be to invest in a product aimed at pylon racing. I agree that the AMA investing in Spread Spectrum would be great but ultimately that should be done by the manufacturers. If the national flying site was used as a test bed for things like I mentioned that I doubt would ever be commercially viable but would help the hobby in general than I think it's a good use of the available funds.
That an effort was made to design pylon cages wasn't a bad idea in theory but it obviously wasn't good in practice. I don't think that one example should be the precedent that determines all future efforts and just seems like more small thinking.
A good way to go broke would be to invest in a product aimed at pylon racing. I agree that the AMA investing in Spread Spectrum would be great but ultimately that should be done by the manufacturers. If the national flying site was used as a test bed for things like I mentioned that I doubt would ever be commercially viable but would help the hobby in general than I think it's a good use of the available funds.
That an effort was made to design pylon cages wasn't a bad idea in theory but it obviously wasn't good in practice. I don't think that one example should be the precedent that determines all future efforts and just seems like more small thinking.
12-17-2004, 08:43 PM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
ORIGINAL: BasinBum
Horrace,
A good way to go broke would be to invest in a product aimed at pylon racing. I agree that the AMA investing in Spread Spectrum would be great but ultimately that should be done by the manufacturers. If the national flying site was used as a test bed for things like I mentioned that I doubt would ever be commercially viable but would help the hobby in general than I think it's a good use of the available funds.
That an effort was made to design pylon cages wasn't a bad idea in theory but it obviously wasn't good in practice. I don't think that one example should be the precedent that determines all future efforts and just seems like more small thinking.
Horrace,
A good way to go broke would be to invest in a product aimed at pylon racing. I agree that the AMA investing in Spread Spectrum would be great but ultimately that should be done by the manufacturers. If the national flying site was used as a test bed for things like I mentioned that I doubt would ever be commercially viable but would help the hobby in general than I think it's a good use of the available funds.
That an effort was made to design pylon cages wasn't a bad idea in theory but it obviously wasn't good in practice. I don't think that one example should be the precedent that determines all future efforts and just seems like more small thinking.
Your turn - cite an example that demonstrates AMA should be in the business of investing in R&D that might support our hobby/sport.
Abel
12-18-2004, 01:29 AM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
Hoss has a long memory, and so do I. Not once has AMA made an R&D investment that has paid off in my recollection. I'll challenge Hoss to name any that he can recall. I have an interest in reducing sound emissions, as this is probably the one thing we have control over (or could if we would) that addresses a major cause of loss of our flying sites. Because of that special interest, I well recall the $50K investment AMA made to commission a study by N Carolina State Univ. What resulted was published in MA, the most atrocious technical article I have ever seen anywhere, and utterly worthless to anyone conscientious enough to attempt to find guidance in mitigating the noise problem and hopefully saving their flying site. The researchers/authors blamed the mess on an editorial hack job, but there was never a retraction/correction/clarification or anything else further published on the study and its findings. I sent about ten pages of comments on the 3-part article to then AMA prexy Don Lowe, and never got a reply from him ar anyone else.
Your turn - cite an example that demonstrates AMA should be in the business of investing in R&D that might support our hobby/sport.
Abel
ORIGINAL: BasinBum
Horrace,
A good way to go broke would be to invest in a product aimed at pylon racing. I agree that the AMA investing in Spread Spectrum would be great but ultimately that should be done by the manufacturers. If the national flying site was used as a test bed for things like I mentioned that I doubt would ever be commercially viable but would help the hobby in general than I think it's a good use of the available funds.
That an effort was made to design pylon cages wasn't a bad idea in theory but it obviously wasn't good in practice. I don't think that one example should be the precedent that determines all future efforts and just seems like more small thinking.
Horrace,
A good way to go broke would be to invest in a product aimed at pylon racing. I agree that the AMA investing in Spread Spectrum would be great but ultimately that should be done by the manufacturers. If the national flying site was used as a test bed for things like I mentioned that I doubt would ever be commercially viable but would help the hobby in general than I think it's a good use of the available funds.
That an effort was made to design pylon cages wasn't a bad idea in theory but it obviously wasn't good in practice. I don't think that one example should be the precedent that determines all future efforts and just seems like more small thinking.
Your turn - cite an example that demonstrates AMA should be in the business of investing in R&D that might support our hobby/sport.
Abel
Here everyone is grousing about how the $ get spent and then someone makes a stab at finding a better way to make the mousetrap and it gets shot at!
Abel, I happen to agree with your observation that there is little (if anything) that AMA has invested in to get the research done that paid off. That being said, why can't we come up with good ways to spend $50K that will help the hobby, us, and the AMA? If there is a pay off the only issue should be to make sure the benefit line is in the order stated.
I noticed that someone thinks that SS should be left to the radio manufacturers to deal with and not involve the AMA. I happen to agree with that approach, but still feel the AMA needs to push HARD in that direction. That probably will lead to the AMA getting involved in any legal moves made to move the R/C hobby in the direction of SS. That costs MONEY, and I am willing to put $50K out on the effort, after all how much is the vaunted $10K HC spent on the 1991 band deal worth today?
12-18-2004, 08:19 AM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
$50K reminds me of something... the late, great D-5 VP wanted that much apprpriated so that they could print color photos of snaps of peachy airplanes in MA.
'Nuff said of the idea.
--Bill
Prouder, but still straining...
'Nuff said of the idea.
--Bill
Prouder, but still straining...
12-19-2004, 07:52 PM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum
LOL! You guys never cease to amaze me.
Here everyone is grousing about how the $ get spent and then someone makes a stab at finding a better way to make the mousetrap and it gets shot at!
LOL! You guys never cease to amaze me.
Here everyone is grousing about how the $ get spent and then someone makes a stab at finding a better way to make the mousetrap and it gets shot at!
They toss out better moustraps to us all the time. Very often we fail to recognize them in the minutes, due to the quaint codes they use to refer to them in the minutes. Example: how did you feel about the motion that passed to accept the affinity program? Sounds nice doesn't it? What kind of Grinch wouldn't want AMA to have an affinity program for Pete's sake? People grouse about lack of communication about what transpires in Muncie, but it's there in the minutes, with pesky details omitted of course. Like "a motion was made to accept the recommendation of the PAC." Pesky details about the nature of the next monumental expansion at Muncie and what it is going to cost us courteously omitted; nobody wants to bothered with that.
A little bird told me that during the last EC meeting there was some discourse on the topic of succession to AMA prexy, should the incumbent move on during his term. I haven't discovered that in the minutes yet, but surely it's a language problem on my part, or just some more pesky details omitted.
Anyway, "affinity program" has a nicer ring to it than "send members unsolicited merchandise to pay for or return." Perhaps I've been grousing about what the EC has been up to for long, my vocabulary of nice words has languished to a point where my comprehension of the reports of all the great things they are doing just went over my head.
Abel
12-19-2004, 10:58 PM
#22
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RE: AMA EC Humor
ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
Jim-
They toss out better moustraps to us all the time. Very often we fail to recognize them in the minutes, due to the quaint codes they use to refer to them in the minutes. Example: how did you feel about the motion that passed to accept the affinity program? Sounds nice doesn't it? What kind of Grinch wouldn't want AMA to have an affinity program for Pete's sake? People grouse about lack of communication about what transpires in Muncie, but it's there in the minutes, with pesky details omitted of course. Like "a motion was made to accept the recommendation of the PAC." Pesky details about the nature of the next monumental expansion at Muncie and what it is going to cost us courteously omitted; nobody wants to bothered with that.
A little bird told me that during the last EC meeting there was some discourse on the topic of succession to AMA prexy, should the incumbent move on during his term. I haven't discovered that in the minutes yet, but surely it's a language problem on my part, or just some more pesky details omitted.
Anyway, "affinity program" has a nicer ring to it than "send members unsolicited merchandise to pay for or return." Perhaps I've been grousing about what the EC has been up to for long, my vocabulary of nice words has languished to a point where my comprehension of the reports of all the great things they are doing just went over my head.
Abel
ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum
LOL! You guys never cease to amaze me.
Here everyone is grousing about how the $ get spent and then someone makes a stab at finding a better way to make the mousetrap and it gets shot at!
LOL! You guys never cease to amaze me.
Here everyone is grousing about how the $ get spent and then someone makes a stab at finding a better way to make the mousetrap and it gets shot at!
They toss out better moustraps to us all the time. Very often we fail to recognize them in the minutes, due to the quaint codes they use to refer to them in the minutes. Example: how did you feel about the motion that passed to accept the affinity program? Sounds nice doesn't it? What kind of Grinch wouldn't want AMA to have an affinity program for Pete's sake? People grouse about lack of communication about what transpires in Muncie, but it's there in the minutes, with pesky details omitted of course. Like "a motion was made to accept the recommendation of the PAC." Pesky details about the nature of the next monumental expansion at Muncie and what it is going to cost us courteously omitted; nobody wants to bothered with that.
A little bird told me that during the last EC meeting there was some discourse on the topic of succession to AMA prexy, should the incumbent move on during his term. I haven't discovered that in the minutes yet, but surely it's a language problem on my part, or just some more pesky details omitted.
Anyway, "affinity program" has a nicer ring to it than "send members unsolicited merchandise to pay for or return." Perhaps I've been grousing about what the EC has been up to for long, my vocabulary of nice words has languished to a point where my comprehension of the reports of all the great things they are doing just went over my head.
Abel
I was talking about the hoi poli, NOT the anointed that refuse and or ignore communications from Leader Members in their district, like MY DVP. He seems to be living a lie about wanting to communicate with the membership as he said in his campaign "tales" and proof of that can be found in MA for the last several months where he says talk to him. I guess if folks were in Muncie all the time, they could talk to him, but only if they were browning their noses. Are you really surprised with the likes of him in office that the AMA chooses to use code words when they are attempting to get more money from us again?
Abel,
That you call the latest attempt at getting into the membership's pocket book "They toss out better moustraps to us all the time. " scares me. On one hand you give the AMA credit for being innovative in fleecing the membership and with the other you complain. If the latter really is your point,
please DO NOT USE LANGUAGE THAT CAN BE TWISTED TO INDICATE YOU APPROVE OF THE HIDDEN AGENDA'S OF SOME OF OUR LESS STELLAR EC MEMBERS!
As for the succession issue, I wonder if it is necessary or just more moustraps. I am beginning to think they do these EC meetings to say they do something and then just let someone do whatever they want. Like threatening Leader Members and the like.
12-19-2004, 11:57 PM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum
GIVE ME A BREAK!
I was talking about the hoi poli, NOT the anointed that refuse and or ignore communications from Leader Members in their district, like MY DVP. He seems to be living a lie about wanting to communicate with the membership as he said in his campaign "tales" and proof of that can be found in MA for the last several months where he says talk to him. I guess if folks were in Muncie all the time, they could talk to him, but only if they were browning their noses. Are you really surprised with the likes of him in office that the AMA chooses to use code words when they are attempting to get more money from us again?
GIVE ME A BREAK!
I was talking about the hoi poli, NOT the anointed that refuse and or ignore communications from Leader Members in their district, like MY DVP. He seems to be living a lie about wanting to communicate with the membership as he said in his campaign "tales" and proof of that can be found in MA for the last several months where he says talk to him. I guess if folks were in Muncie all the time, they could talk to him, but only if they were browning their noses. Are you really surprised with the likes of him in office that the AMA chooses to use code words when they are attempting to get more money from us again?
As for your DVP, the guys in D-I and D-V learned to how deal with the problem, you'll have your turn.
Abel,
That you call the latest attempt at getting into the membership's pocket book "They toss out better moustraps to us all the time. " scares me. On one hand you give the AMA credit for being innovative in fleecing the membership and with the other you complain. <snip>
There was more good news from the EC meeting. Remember the mandated Safety Officer whose only qualification is to have an Email addy to receive info from HQ? His very first defined role is to report incidents back to HQ even if their is no intent to file a claim. Talk about innovation - who ever would have thunk it...... He will also be provided with educational material on LiPo safety, doubtless prepared by battery expert Brown and his phalanx of lawyers (but not Fred Marks), to present to the club. He's going to be one heck of a popular fellow!
Abel
12-20-2004, 12:21 AM
#24
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RE: AMA EC Humor
[quote]ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
SNIP
As for your DVP, the guys in D-I and D-V learned to how deal with the problem, you'll have your turn.
[quote]
ROFLOL! Take care of him? Now THAT is a real joke. He has less and less honor each and every time he pulls one of his infamous snake in the grass moves a la his funny signature lines last EVP election. Wanna bet he finds some anointed member to complain so he can pull a Leader Membership we know of?
I know a new safety officer who has some opinions, but I wonder what teeth the DB crowd put into this new 'requirement'? Exactly what do these folks want? It seems clear that they do not want club officers doing anything to grow the hobby because just like some stupid government weenies, they keep finding more make work for club officers to do that leads to exactly nothing productive or beneficial.
How funny. They keep taking all these actions without any discussion with any of the members and then they tell us how urgent it was to move fast before the opportunity passed. No wonder DVP's are not allowed to talk about anything except what the king, er president wants to allow them to discuss. Yeah, I saw the reference and wonder what white elephant we are going to buy now. SF sold his show to the folks some were trying to get the AMA to buy out and wondered if that was how DB got him on board.
SNIP
As for your DVP, the guys in D-I and D-V learned to how deal with the problem, you'll have your turn.
[quote]
ROFLOL! Take care of him? Now THAT is a real joke. He has less and less honor each and every time he pulls one of his infamous snake in the grass moves a la his funny signature lines last EVP election. Wanna bet he finds some anointed member to complain so he can pull a Leader Membership we know of?
ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
There was more good news from the EC meeting. Remember the mandated Safety Officer whose only qualification is to have an Email addy to receive info from HQ? His very first defined role is to report incidents back to HQ even if their is no intent to file a claim. Talk about innovation - who ever would have thunk it...... He will also be provided with educational material on LiPo safety, doubtless prepared by battery expert Brown and his phalanx of lawyers (but not Fred Marks), to present to the club. He's going to be one heck of a popular fellow!
Abel
There was more good news from the EC meeting. Remember the mandated Safety Officer whose only qualification is to have an Email addy to receive info from HQ? His very first defined role is to report incidents back to HQ even if their is no intent to file a claim. Talk about innovation - who ever would have thunk it...... He will also be provided with educational material on LiPo safety, doubtless prepared by battery expert Brown and his phalanx of lawyers (but not Fred Marks), to present to the club. He's going to be one heck of a popular fellow!
Abel
How funny. They keep taking all these actions without any discussion with any of the members and then they tell us how urgent it was to move fast before the opportunity passed. No wonder DVP's are not allowed to talk about anything except what the king, er president wants to allow them to discuss. Yeah, I saw the reference and wonder what white elephant we are going to buy now. SF sold his show to the folks some were trying to get the AMA to buy out and wondered if that was how DB got him on board.
12-20-2004, 09:58 AM
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RE: AMA EC Humor
Geeze guys, this thread looks like a bunch of sharks in a feeding frenzy, more than a discussion of AMA issues.
I have talked to Sandy Frank enough to know that his intentions for SWAC, from the beginning, were to start a show for modelers where there was none. He tried to expose the modelers of his district to new modeling items and show specials; all the neat stuff that is part of a show. Running such a show is a daunting task, year after year. While there is some truth to the fact that the AMA considered purchasing the show in Washington state, not SWAC, the concept was rejected by the EC so fast it never became an issue. That was some time ago. A group of vendors saved the show in Washington. This is the same group that purchased SWAC.
I think it is only fair to Dr. Frank that it become known that he did not personally profit from the sale of SWAC. Yes, it was sold, BUT, the payment was in the form of donations to the AMA museum and scholarships. The profits from previous SWACs also went to the AMA. The sale was done in such a way that he will not even receive deductions for the show.
The information is out there about other items being discussed as well. Is it worth anybody’s time to chase down the facts, or is it more fun to speculate?
At any rate, happy holidays to all.
JR
I have talked to Sandy Frank enough to know that his intentions for SWAC, from the beginning, were to start a show for modelers where there was none. He tried to expose the modelers of his district to new modeling items and show specials; all the neat stuff that is part of a show. Running such a show is a daunting task, year after year. While there is some truth to the fact that the AMA considered purchasing the show in Washington state, not SWAC, the concept was rejected by the EC so fast it never became an issue. That was some time ago. A group of vendors saved the show in Washington. This is the same group that purchased SWAC.
I think it is only fair to Dr. Frank that it become known that he did not personally profit from the sale of SWAC. Yes, it was sold, BUT, the payment was in the form of donations to the AMA museum and scholarships. The profits from previous SWACs also went to the AMA. The sale was done in such a way that he will not even receive deductions for the show.
The information is out there about other items being discussed as well. Is it worth anybody’s time to chase down the facts, or is it more fun to speculate?
At any rate, happy holidays to all.
JR