Live Wire

What can and do officers get by with, because of thier possition. Or is it officers never do any thing wrong. Why club members will not bring up an infraction by officers but will persue others to no end?

Roby

Perhaps that's just the way it is in your club.
If you want to change things .......run for one of the positions.
If you don't get voted in , then you should ask yourself why.
That of course, may open up a bunch of other issues that you
may not be aware of.

Regards
Roby

J_R

RCO

Most times when questions are raised about clubs, the question is asked: "What do the club by-laws say". Some clubs are democratic to the extreme and everything has to be run by the membership and voted on. At the other extreme is a club where the club was put together by the landlord and a few close friends. In this case, the by-laws may be written in such a manner that the rest of the club has virtually no say in any aspect of running the club. Most clubs fall somewhere between.

The AMA does not run clubs, nor tell them how they must be run, beyond some very rudimentary requirements. Dues process for the membership comes to mind as a requirement, as does an non-discrimination policy. On the other side of the coin, clubs may or may not be corporations, or 501 © 7 organizations, or devoted to some specific realm of modeling such as ff, or rc soaring, etc.

The answer to the question “What can and do officers get by with� is similar to asking “how long is a piece of string�. There needs to be a lot more information about a specific club to answer it.

Live Wire

Question?
In most clubs there are people that take an office and do not have any idea how or what to do in it. The whole thing is the name, and they can get by with most any thing because they are an officer and you can bet that any one that is against them would not have a chance running for an office.
You would think that club members would have a say, but it does not work that way. A club member takes a friend or family member to the field and you have to go by what is written. The officers or thier little clique can take whom ever as many time as the like to the field and if you are some bigshot from some where in this universe you get by with anything.
Most common members have no idea how to run an office and what it intales. The responsibilities give them does not stop when the meeting is ajourned. You learn not to stand in front of the fan and know when and how to shut it off
When you have control of the club you have control of the flying feild, that means you have more flying time when you have less members[>:]

Edit
When it changed from WE to THEY, so did clubs and ama[&o]

J_R

Apparently, you have a problem in your club. Again, without knowing what the by-laws say, it's impossible to give a reasonable opinion.

In most clubs I have been involved with, the only reason anyone runs for office is because 5 other guys were forcibly keeping his hand in the air when someone asks who wants to run for office.

If your club has a democratic organization and if you want to run for office, give it a try. If you can't get nominated or elected, then it would appear you have a personal problem. Democratic organizations do not have to give in to the will of the minority. That is the way things are. If, on the other hand, it is not a democratic organization, you still have no recourse. If either is the case, either conform or find some other place to fly.

Live Wire

JR
It make no difference where you fly it will follow you and you will get the blame for every thing that happens. It is human nature to find some one to put the blame on. I was blamed for shooting down a plane and was not even flying and did not have anything at the field. You build planes for people and they look for excusses not to replace or pay for servises. Yes I have friends that want me to come back and fly could you.

PS I will not fly alone AMA or not, and you no how hard it is to find a flying field when you already have one in you area that is not used that much.

J_R

We see, over and over, posts where young people and older people are not getting along. It never used to be like that. I watch it at my field, although not to the extent you describe. I have thought quite a bit about why that is.

I think the root cause is ARFs. Now, before anyone jumps down my throat, I have nothing against ARFs. I can remember back to a time where getting into the hobby successfully required help for most of us. Just getting the first plane built from box to something flyable required information what was not included with the plans. Instructions were marginal, at best. No pictures and very few drawings. Usually help was found in the embodiment of an older person. Time was spent, friendships and bonds made.

After the plane was airworthy, most of us were not in much of a hurry to rekit it, so more help was needed. Engines were balkier. Correct physical setup of flying surfaces needed to be done. No computer radios to equalize the ailerons, or take the unintentional differential out. The planes had to be set up right to begin with. More bonds and friendships made with the older people that had the experience and information and were willing to share it.

Even learning to fly was different. Buddy boxes didn’t exist and trust with your instructor was a necessity if you were ever going to be successful. In other words, the age gap was bridged.

Today, ARFs exist. It takes a few hours or days to assemble one. The instructions come with pictures and great instructions. Most people can get one together in a fashion that will allow it to fly. Linkages don’t have to be right, just dial in the adjustment. Almost anyone can break in a .40 size engine today. There are less concerns than there once were about the longevity of the engine, etc. etc.

When it comes to learning to fly, the newbie has no patience. He never spent 6 months or a year building that plane. He wants to learn now. He gets upset if he does not get the attention he thinks he is entitled to. This certainly does not endear him to the older person that is likely to train him. Why shouldn't he expect it? Within the last couple of weeks he has spent a lot of money on a plane, AMA and club memberships. He has no understanding that it was not always like this.

The older guys are now flying ARFs as well. Cheaper and faster to build than a kit. The newbie can’t see that the older guy knows much more than he does. The older guys understand that we only think rc planes are under control at all times. The newbie has total faith in his radio and plane. As a result, the flying styles are different, and… no one ever talks. If the older guy offers a suggestion, he gets a look. If the newbie asks a question, he gets the short answer.

The truth is the older guys are not needed like they once were, and as a result the friendships and bonds are not built nearly as often, or as easily. People that have all the answers and know everything do not communicate well, whether they actually do have the answers or only think they do. If this describes the situation you are in, you are going to have to change your outlook. It’s not likely your going to change everyone else.

Roby

JR

Well done

Live Wire

JR
You keep posting like that and we will get to be nice guys. A great response and thank you, to bad more people can't read it.

Jim Messer

My Feedback: (2)

J.R. I couldn't agree more.

crownvic

JR it is the same in the hotrod and car clubs ! you would have to make every thing for your car or modify some thing from the boneyard get the older guys to help and pick there brain. that is no longer needed sorry to say.We just lay done are dollars and drive off to the rod meet in our 33 ford roadster. All Ready to Drive. Its not a matter of cubic inches and hard work. Its just cubic money and instant gradifacation. We as parents have greated the ME generation.WE should be so proud.

Lonnie

Live Wire

These thread make a person think what really is happening . The new age of flyers want the best for nothing , It has to be the best or the hell with it. To explain a 8'x30 camper for a club house, a used P.A. system, and personally made flight tables are not good enough for the club, it has to be new to fit the club image.

Live Wire

Are they kit or ARF, What Mod.s must you make before installation. Do they quallify for what you need or are they RTF.

tonystro

My Feedback: (1)

J_R,

That's the clearest and most logical explanation I've yet come across. Thanks for posting!!

This past week I was hit with this perspective view... I was a young, junior enlisted man and newly married when I began this crazy hobby. I was obsessive about airplanes and flying...still am. The 'Orbit' radio system (4ch) cost me three months pay; the Falcon 56, Fox .35, covering, dope and accessories cost another month's. It took me nearly two months to build and finish the plane. Although I had several mentors, all of them were flying analog systems and I had to 'teach' myself about proportional control. It took more than a dozen flights, and a couple of crashes, before I had any confidence at all.

My newest student is a young, junior enlisted man (same age and rank as me when I started) and newly married as he begins. He's told me his ALPHA RTF and flying accessories ALMOST used up all of his 'fun' money for February, and his wife was a little ticked that he spent most of a Saturday afternoon getting the plane ready for its maiden. He had dozens of hours of simulator time before his first flight, and was performing totally acceptable, slight crosswind, takeoff and landing by the third tank of fuel, and very nice loops and rolls by the fifth. Although I believe he is in for the long haul, he currently has no interest in building, only in flying.

We have gotten off to a great start because I recognize that, although his goals appear much different than mine (back then or now), we have one in common--to fly as well as our abilities allow. He looks to me, as I did to my mentors, to help him achieve his goals not ones I set for him. I do not patronize him nor 'talk down' to him. I treat him with the respect I would hope to be given and he reciprocates. He listens to the tales spun by us old timers, recognizing he can benefit from knowledge we've gained through experience (some of it quite costly). As an example, he came to realize that a basic understanding of aerodynamics and principles of flight, while not mandatory, will help him achieve the pilot skills he seeks, and that I/we am/are a willing source for some of that information.

I have also learned from this association... mostly that the changes in technology, cost and societal influence have created a different 'starting point' in our hobby, as you so eloquently pointed out. Therefore, to establish and maintain a common bond with those now joining our ranks I leave out most of my 'back in the day' comments and put more stress on 'with today's radio/engine/model technology you can... ' Of course an occasional 'when I was trying to learn.....' does come out