I used to really like ama, but they have forgotton what they are there for. They give us this bull about needing to raise dues due to having to pay claims, but use our money to build themselves a multi million dollar flying field that few can get to, buy trade shows for a ton of money that they don't need to own, and spend spend spend. The should have stuck to what they started as. I don't mind supporting their insurance, but to be forced to pay for their other ventures is plain bull. Most big groups like them that are supposed to be there for "the members" are actually there for themselves and forget the members.

The AMA does pro-rate membership based upon when you join. Next year you should receive a discount on the year's membership dues based upon when during this year you joined.

At least that is what happened when I joined 3 years ago.

So does United Modelers of America the new SFA and you dues are $38.00 for open and $30.00 for seniors. They now cover Turbines and models to 100 lbs. Five members and you got a club. You may want to check it out as an alternitive source for your insurance and save a few bucks a long the way.

Bud - AMA 739,& UMA 739

We went through that before, but don't try to fly at a field covered by ama. AMA won't cover them if you fly there. Can you say forcing a monopoly! I have always stuck with AMA, but get tired of seeing them do stuff like that.

Wow! Dave that must be a really nice flying field in leavenworth. Looks like I'm packing my bags and moving to KS. Do you allow Helicopters?.

I have had them prorate me when I came in late. I pay the dues and am thankful to do it. If not for the AMA I would not even be flying. We would not have a field to fly from or frequencies to fly on. The jurisdiction of our field would not allow us to use the site if we could not provide insurance to protect them from liability. You go out and buy insurance on an individual basis and see how much it would cost you. more than 58 bucks I'll bet.I only have one thing to say to all you complainersif you hate the AMA so much why don't you just quit and let the rest of us fly in pease.

Yes, but only for new memberships. ("New" means somone who has never been a member before, or has been "gone" for five years.) If you don't fall into that category, it's a calendar year thing.

OTOH, join after Oct 1 of THIS year and it's good to the end of the NEXT year.

Bill

Nobody Said anything about the AMA or the club I belong to as being Perfect.

The CluB I belong to is the Shawnee Mission Radio Control Club, It Has it short- comings as any club, Not All the Membership is as helpful as we would like, but the ones that do, do so very well. The field itself is not perfect, it runs North east to south west, we fly from the south side so the sun can be a problem at times, the approaches are not perfect and their are lots of trees in the surrounding area although they are not a problem unless you dead stick to far away. The runway is somewhat short . But if you train someone on this field they will have no problems flying elsewhere. The field is not well suited for big fast aircraft . The good thing is there are around 9 other flying facilities in the Kansas city Area. All of them about 40 min to an hour from Leavenworth.

Our Web Page..

http://members.tripod.com/~smrcc/index.html

Anybody is welcome to fly , you do not need to be a Club Member to use the field . I fly Helicopters and fixed wing . Most of our members are very easy guys to get along with and are very friendly , but every club has the semi rotten apples.

What a shame . . . $58.00 per year, no option on the magazine, no pro rata for those who join after midyear, a flying field at headquarters that everyone payed for but no one can use except at the Nats (IF you happen to be a competitor), insurance that takes an act of congress to get to if you (God forbid) are unfortunate enough to hurt someone or happen to damage property and must make a claim. And NOW they want a copy of our chartered club bylaws. Could it be that they want to see if it has any loopholes that might allow them to reject a claim based on some obscure technicality? Oh yeah - how many clubs have a field that meets ALL the flying field safety rules & guidelines outlined by AMA? Do you really think they're going to pay a claim if your field violates any of their rules???

Why not sit down right now and make a detailed list of just what the AMA has done for you as an individual modeler, or for your chartered club. If you're not an active competitor with a big bankroll to support your hobby, about the only item on your list is going to be . . . INSURANCE!!! It's absolutely necessary to protect (???) yourself and the landowner of your flying site (if you're lucky enough to have one). And, if you DO have a claim, is AMA going to protect you and your club??? Nobody really knows, they just continue to pay year after year and HOPE they're covered if anything DOES happen. Why is AMA membership mandatory in my club??? For the INSURANCE . . . the same as for most other 'fly-for-fun' clubs that are not competition driven or oriented. One more thing . . . If you're a member of a chartered club that is NOT incorporated, you can be held personaly liable for the acts of others at your field, above and beyond AMA insurance.

Of the 20 or more new members that have joined my club in the last 2 or 3 years, not ONE ever said "I heard about the Academy of Model Aeronautics and want to join". They joined because a club member explained the hobby to them, demonstrated model flight, explained in detail how and "how much" to get started, and in most cases personally supervised their ground school and flight training until they were proficient enough to fly without assistance. These guys are the real unsung heroes of our hobby, but they don't seem to be getting any of the glory, or even a 'thank you' from the AMA.

I'd be willing to bet that about 80% of AMA's membership is in the "Sunday Flyers" category that only wants to fly for fun and the camaradery, has NO interest in competition, and for the most part flies only at his club field. Why isn't there a reduced plan available for this kind of club, or a way for a club to customize its AMA membership to include (and be charged for) only the services and benefits needed by that club.

It sure is difficult when a new or prospective member says:

"What's it gonna cost me to get started?".

Well, there's about $400.00 for your ARF plane, engine, radio, and support equipment, club dues are $20.00 per year, but we pro-rate 'em if you join after mid year. And, oh yes . . . $58.00 for AMA membership!!!

"What do I get for that???"

Well, a monthly magazine and insurance in case you have an accident and the claim isn't all covered by your homeowners insurance.

"Anything else???"

Well, they have patches and stuff, but it all costs extra.

"Do I HAVE to join AMA???".

Afraid so, it's the only way we have as a club to insure ourselves against any liability in case of an accident.

No use to say any more . . . you've all heard it a hundred times before.

Hi rctrax,
Maybe some of "complainers" love this hobby and, instead of quiting and running away want to make things better. AMA is a necessary organization and, while I have problems with the AMA, they often do the right thing.
And yes, for most members it's only about insurance. To me it's a little more, like having the hobby around so my grandson's can enjoy it
Regards,
Jon

Hello Jon , Do you see what I mean about the Lazy ones? Looks to me like another post with nothing to base their concerns on. Another person only concerned about what they do for me , Another person who can't see the bigger picture dispite the short-comings.

Perhaps our biggest concern should be more with current members falsely slandering OUR organization to new people, That can't be helping things ether. :stupid:

Later
Dave

I keep reading these posts and have to ask myself why not get together with your regions vp and come up with a solution. I am well aware that not everyone can be placated, but you can either whine, do nothing or act.

Would I prefer not to have to pay for a magazine I don't read....sure....I think about that whan my wifes "Woman's Day" shows up too. Will I ever go to Muncie....no. I pay my dues. My club pays it's charter fee. If this other modeling association is a valid alternative, then maybe the clubs should look into that.

But why not try to fix what is percieved as the problems with the AMA instead of bellyaching and jumping ship. I plan on printing this thread out and bringing it up to my club all 73 members and see what their opinion is. If they feel, either as a whole or individually that there is issue to be taken; then we can draft a letter or have the individuals call or write the regional vp.

My $.02

Feel free to flame me, but that's my opinion

To any that this may be of interest

In the October issue of Model Aviation, in the Flying Site Assistance column, there is mention of a club that had an apparently negative experience with law enforcement after "Buzzing" a neighbors "Emus". The club that I belong to, and it's members, believe that the description was referencing our club.

I replied to the AMA Flying Site Assistance personell that their reference was grossly misstated. I informed them that if they had performed any research at all, it would have been noted that any and all legal actions regarding this site and the neighbors "Emus" (they are actually octriches') have been against the neighbor for crimes that she has comitted against us.
They would have found that the neighbor has repeatedly trespassed, fired shotguns at our models from the edge of the property, used her pick up truck to run over aircraft on the runway, blocked the use of the runway with her vehicle, and used her vehicle to run down one of the property owners.

These are separate occurrances, not just one. It appears that the AMA has listened only to the complaint of the neighbor, and convicted us (in their minds) of wrongdoing without any investigation of the site, or interviews of the members.

I also reminded the AMA that shortly after one of the shotgun incidents, we asked the AMA for help, and that their reply was to "Find another flying site." Our reply was that since the 40 acres that we fly on is owned by a club member who normally and regularly uses this property as a full scale runway, that termination of flight operations at this site is not likely. To this day, the AMA has not replied to my letter, or to letters from other members of the club.

For those who may wonder where this has gone, the neighbor is now on a 3 year criminal probation to remain clear of the members, property, and aircraft, and is the defendant in a multi-million dollar damage/personal injury suit. No club member has ever been found by any legal authority to have committed any wrong. And we HAVE NOT "buzzed" her damn birds.


It's my opinion that the AMA has diverted from it's original purpose of obtaining and protecting radio frequencies and promoting model aviation to one that could be viewed to be more more self serving.

Silversurfer

A national organization (In this case the AMA) offers it's members a variety of services. To do this costs a certain amount of money. Not all members use all the available services.

There always seems to be a group of selfish, narrow minded individuals who try to take away from others the services they themselves do not use.

What is the matter with you people?

Ed S

Dear Mr. Smith:

My addition to this thread was meant to illustrate what type of service you might expect when you request assistance from the AMA. Prior to the the most extreme incident noted in my prior thread, our club had requested assistance in locating airspace rights info from the AMA. No information was offered, nor was a reply to our request given. We received much more help from the Airplane Owners and Pilots Association, and they're not even involved with modeling.

I agree that the operation of an orginazation such as the AMA requires large amounts of capital, but some of it should go to the services they portray themselves to be involved in. It would be nice if all sectors of this country could have someone else provide them with a new, first class flying field and office building.

I'll make a statement that I believe to be true and correct, if you live and fly on the West Coast, you do not, and will not, have representation from the AMA. The only time one of the area Vice Presidents/representatives showed up anywhere near our flying field, he almost cost us the use of the lake we use for float flying. This due to drinking in public, unsafe flight operations in the lake parking lot, and argueing with the park rangers. If the rangers did not personally know us, the site would have been lost.



Silversurfer

I live in one of the western states and I was a memeber of AMA for many years. As far I am concern and seen out here they did not do anything to benefit us in anyway or premote modelling , except to raise and collect the anaual fee every year. we were left on own to improve our own flying field to help other club members and basically everthing was done based on indivitial members inititives. when they finally buit the huge headquarter and personnal flying field in Indiana I decided not to play the sucker anymore and got out , you may say I voted with my feet. I really believe in a strong national organization to protect the rights of the modellers, plus provide insurance, but ripping off the modeller is not the way to do it. Hope some day there is a major shake up at top of AMA.

FOXX - Just what would you like to see the AMA to do as a "Benefit" to you your club ? and what would you want them to do to promote the hobby in your area?

Dave,

All I want is accountability. Anytime I raised the issue I was told since there are so many modelers are in the Eastern part of the county they don't have the time and resources for few us out in the west. It was like we needed to be scarified for the greater good. and when they built the huge personal field in Indiana my suspicion came true and understood for whom we need to scarify. My club few years ago had some senior members who felt the club belong to them but we successfully managed to vote them out and restore freedom I hope the same thing happens to AMA. Dave if you are saying that does not need to provide any benefit to anybody please tell me why I am paying these people.

I am simply asking a question, What specific things would you want to see the AMA do to promote the Hobby? And what are you and your club looking for from the AMA other than inexpensive insurance?

I am simply looking for ideas , and what people expect.

Mr. Bowles:

In response to your request I want to submit the following.

When an established sanctioned club encounters pressure from the surrounding community to close and relocate the flying field because the community has encroached upon the flying field, I would like to see the AMA get involved with the club and community leaders to see if a way could be found to mitigate the loss/damage to the club.

I would like to see the AMA get involved with newly established community governments to assist the clubs in educating the community leaders in the fact that soccor and softball are not the only sports around. And that a large number of the people paying the taxes for the school sports fields are the same ones flying model aircraft.

I would like to see the AMA devote some of the members paid resources in educating the general public with regard to model aircraft flight operations.

I would like to see the AMA assist in the development of literature that could be provided to public schools that illustrates the vast areas of knowledge, education, and career opportunities that can be opened up due to model aviation.

Just a few thoughts on the subject.

Silversurfer

They do.

If you haven't been an AMA member for 10 years, you will qualify as a "New" member. Memberships always expire at the end of the year, but a "New" member will get a rebate for next year's renewal.

OTOH, joining after the first of October will result in membership for the remainder of the year as WELL as the next.

Regards,

Bill Lee

LET ME SEE.....
I have read all of the posts and threads about the AMA, made a few posts and pondered over all said.
I have discovered that the following seems to be the gist of it all:
1.I can't read so don't want the magazine ...Donate it to your public library..it might attract new folks.
2.Was not around when we had less than ten frequencies for RC use. AMA was major player in getting the ones you now have!
3.What has the AMA done for ME, ME, ME!!
4. If I continue to ***** here will it change anything? Maybe, but working WITH the AMA and it's reps might.
5.AMA won't answer ME, ask someone else at Hq.giving up is easy.
6.I don't have all the facts but I'm going to ***** anyway,....maybe no one will notice.
7.I don't understand Non-profit organization and can't figure out that they are required by law to send out reports to the members.Oh damn, thats the magazine. (A mag and a separate report might require a dues increase)
8.What has the AMA done for ME ME ME ME! Provide you with very low cost insurance. OH now wait... not all of us have homeowners insurance. We are dead beats, we are not married, we are students, the list goes on..... But wait I forgot about the ME factor!
9.AMA has a new office complex and I will never see/use it. That is your choice. You will probably never see the inside of the White House but you are still paying for it.
10.I don't know about all of the programs for Youth and assistance for school programs. At a nominal cost and effort on your part you can make a difference, with the help of AMA, in enriching a child's life. But let me ***** anyway!
11.I have a business that is directly related to model aviation. But let ME see if I can tear down the the organization that actively promotes the Shows and Expositions where my products are advertised/sold.
The list goes on.....
It's late and I am sleepy, I will agree that the AMA has it's faults and problems. If you nay sayers out there think you can change anything on this site I wish you good luck. If anyone of you with enough balls to make an effort to make that change I will support your efforts.
This was not to offend anyone and if I did ...point well taken,I hope!
George

George, are you OK now ?

BV

All,

As a 9 month member of AMA, I read this thread with a great deal of interest.

I am bothered by the charges that AMA is using member fees to build what amounts to Augusta National (i.e., a posh, private club).

However, there seems to be one area where more facts are really needed. That is, the claim that the insurance AMA provides is hard to make a claim against.

Would it be possible for some of you who actually made a claim to relate the circumstances and the reaction of AMA?

In my case, $58 for a membership is not a problem, my club would be (literally) dangerous if it were not for the AMA rules that they can't totally ignore, and the magazine is pretty lame but has an occasional good article.

GB

Ghostbear

Unfortunately, to really understand any insurance policy, you must read it. The information is on the AMA web site

A quick summary of coverage:

It is secondary to any other insurance you have

It is primary for the landowner (if a club has secured a certificate)

It covers your models against fire/theft/vandalism up to $1000 with $100 deductible

Your covered for $10,000 death or dismemberment

You have $25,000 accident/medical coverage with $50 deductible

You, the club, and the site owner (if a certificate has been issued) are covered with $2,500,000 liability insurance with $250 deductible FOR COVERED OCCURRENCES (read the policy).

There are exclusions. For instance, slander and libel are not covered.

Mid-airs, and other damage to equipment are not covered.

To fully understand what is and is not covered, you must read the policy.

IF your claim is for a covered occurrence, the AMA pays very rapidly. Most complaints are because the individual does not understand what is not covered.

JR