What dirrections should the AMA go? What ideas need to be explored? What are your thoughts about it? I have posted this thread to give ideas to those in the AMA who care(and many who don't) about trying to find out what the majority of their membership wants. Please don't bash anyone or even the AMA in this thread just give your ideas and defend them with facts(not personal attacks). I, as an AMA member, don't think that the AMA is best representing me and my interest and I want to change that.

1. Make the magazine, Model Aviation, a profit making business (IRC 501 (c) (3) non-related business), thus releasing well over 1 million dollars of member dues back into the general fund, plus making other modeling media more supportive of AMA and its programs. Solution: Competitive market advertising rates.

2. Use available media to increase many-fold the knowledge, awareness, and acceptance of model aviation as a worthwhile recreational and competitive sport, hobby, etc.

3. Increase the membership.

4. Using #2 and #3 as a tool for enhancing flying facility acquisition and retainment.

5. Reduction of restrictions -- Safety Code -- etc. for insurance enhancement.

Howdy Hossfly-
1. It would be hard to make MA competitive unless you eliminate all the various categories of model flying and do away with the technical stuff, all of which is not covered in the catalogue type rags. Unfortunately, you would probably lose an awful lot of members who fly other types of models. RC ain't the only type of flying that is done.
2. AMA tries to use available media but the actual work must be done by the various clubs and generally, they just don't do a good job of it. So it's up to the clubs to do it. Motivate the clubs and you will have it. Just try and get members off their butts to volunteer time! Sure.

3. Good idea, but how? The number of flyers, thus members, is always in a state of flux and will always go up and down as do all associations.

4. In this suit happy society we have it is hard to get any insurance, much less negotiate better terms. Believe me, I've been there and done that and it don't work at all. How do you negotiate with any insurance company that tells you they don't want your account and there only two or three others out there that will insure this type of program?
As Shakespeare said several hundred years ago: "First, let's kill all the lawyers."
Personally, I don't want to see anyone, ever, injured, and think that the safety regs are what anyone would want and in fact they are generally taken from restrictions the average club enforce. Some are tougher than any of the AMA rules.
AMA needs ideas and input from all of us but they cannot afford to hire personnel to do the things that we would like done and it is up to us not only as individuals but clubs to get those things done on a volunteer basis.
Your ideas are all good and correct, but I don't know how we can get them done.

3dbob

My major gripe with the AMA, for many years, is that the AMA does not promote model aviation to the general public (at least not so one would notice it). I have talked with various folks about this and have had several letters to the editor on the subject published in Model Aviation. Needless to say I have mentioned it many times on various forums as well.

If you look at other sports, and they are what competes for flying space and leisure time activity, you see that they publicize themselves by highlighting competition. There is the immediate response that the mostly non-competitive AMA membership would not like this. But look at golf, tennis, fishing, cowchip pitching, etc. etc. all of which are practiced mostly by "sport fliers". All sports except model aviation use their competitive events as advertising. I do not understand .

Jim

If you look at it like most club members and the AMA we do not need any more publicity than we already get to keep members ship down and insurance claims as low as possible. The less people involve the more flying we get to do and AMA has that much more money to spend on Muncie.
The more you push rules and membership the less people you are going to get involved. We need to make what we have interesting enough that people want to join in on what we as RC buffs have. Can you imagine seeing a crowd of people at some of our meets like other organizations have and the liability involved

1. I personally think membership is a little more important then the bottom line. Yes make the magazine public but make it a better magazine; a magazine companies would be interested in advertising in. Give members an option for not getting the mag and getting their info through the web site. Being forced to buy the magazine is a sore spot with most members. It is not doubt important to keep the members aprised of activities. Being able to get membership news on the web site at a reduced rate would make a viable alternative to those who don't want the magazine.

2. Distance ourselvs from calace self serving dishonest marketing ploys such as the CD distribution. It strips the Honor from the organization and that doesn't help membership or make friends. We don't have to stoop to what the rest of the world does. Our organization should have more honor then that even if it means a $ or 2 less. Although I think driving away membership is never profitable reguardless of what is made in the short term.

3. Take a more active and visible role in protecting our interest, educating the world and our members to current and upcoming issues. Groups such as AOPA, NRA are constantly laying out their position on issues (to both their members and those in the world who may effect them). The modeling comunty needs better unity and better representation. Representation would help modelers feel the need for membership and would make the group stronger as a whole.

I often feel the AMA is not willing to take a position because they are afraid to offend some one. They hint at their postion buit do not work hard enough to lay it out.

With such great strides in so many facets of modeling from electrics, backyard airplanes, jets, monster airplanes, etc. and with issues such as 9/11, people doing bad or dumb things with models, and with the explosion of UAV's, news reporter extremest, congressmen looking for notches in their record (I saved the world from extremest with model airplanes!), and many many other issues.....

We need representation, and leadership. Our positions will likely push away some modelers but I believe more will flock when we have a backbone.

Gary

Bob there is a BIG world out there. AMA's "MA" has a circulation of well over 150,000 conscripted members. Model Airplane News (MAN) has 75,000 circulation. A color page in MAN costs 3 times that of MA. 1/2 the circulation at 3 times the cost??? Yet just check the Tower ad in MAN -- 8 pages versus the 4 pages in MA. Most anyone can get the message there. If MA set their rates at about the same as MAN and FLY RC, then that million would be back in the bank.
Nothing changes but AMA using the IRC 501 (c) (3) shelter to UNFAIRLY compete against free-market magazines which no longer support AMA and its programs. To get outside the choir and obtain industry support, AMA's current venture into commercial publications requires definite redirection.

Again as so many members you are thinking far inside the box. Let's say that the US State Department gets flooded with information reference the international goodwill of the FAI International competition teams. Then all the top TV media gets plenty of same plus all the big happenings around the country including Muncie, Top Gun, etc., etc. Local news stations get their info not only from the clubs but also from the national organization. All levels of government get informational items about their local clubs and all the good things model aviation accomplishes. It may not open the doors for the local clubs when soliciting flying facilities, but I'm betting the doors will not be locked when the clubs arrive.

True, historically there are ups and downs, however at this time when the electric thing is creating a great demand for things that fly, there is a golden opportunity awaiting AMA. As in the past, the majority will just pass through, yet some will hang on as most of the people now dedicated to the sport have done. If AMA could just get 5%, AMA would hit some $435,000 the first year. Much better than beads and other trinkets.
Information, Local governmental acceptance and more acceptance for flying facilities will make that growth happen.

Obtaining insurance is a no-sweat item if AMA has the money to pay the premium. They brainwash the membership to accept such philosophy simply to cover over where you are not supposed to look.

Personally I don't dream idle dreams. I use wisdom quotes, yet I am a realist, not a dreamer. I think the restrictions are far too excessive, especially since so few adhere to them.

Thank You. You see, Bob, I DO KNOW how to get them done. That is why I am agreeable to sacrifice some of these final years in doing them as the AMA EVP / CFO. Vote wisely.

But MAN is failing, bigtime. As is RCM. And FLYrc is not doing so great, either. So the idea of retooling MA to be some sort of profit machine is pretty ludicrous.

With forums like this magazines are on their way out we can look up pics ,diagrams, fonts, and
lots of things fast and accurate.


Tim

Not really, lots of us online but I still do 90% of my reading burning up time I can do nothing else with no computers around. Besides, I can't aford a computer in the lew!

Not much accurate on the internet either. Seems to be taken more seriously when put in print.

Gary

IMO the main direction the AMA should take, is the oppositte of the one it has been taking recently under DB's (mis)guidance. Instead of looking for more & more arbitrary restrictions to place on our hobby, the AMA should be looking at how to expand the various aspects of aeromodelling.

1.) I don't know how to fix MA. But in the past MA offered about 400 bucks less than the other mags for a scale construction article. And the result was month after month of very simple, beginner like construction articles. It was very disappointing to me. At one time, I did believe that simply paying the going rate for a good article would spice up the magazine nicely.

But now, I'm not so sure. I am treated like some freak of nature now just because I build kits. Everyone seems to have jumped on the ARF band wagon. And I believe this is a symptom of our times. People are much less committed to the hobby. I seriously doubt that a good scale construction article would even appeal to the average 2005 RC modeller. But it is my opinion that if MA did publish such articles the AMA membership would at least be exposed to the fine craft of scratch building, ( or plan building). And I do believe that fine models do inspire the folks that see them. To me, this is the essence of promoting the hobby. It is elevating it to the very fine craft it was and can be again.

2.) Muncie. I hate the idea of Muncie. NATS should move around, be hosted by established clubs in different regions. I don't care to drive to Muncie. I'm sure it is a fine town and I'll bet the people are lovely. But why not Daytona or near Orlando. Why not in the Smokeys. There are some spectacularly beautiful areas in this fine country of ours. Why must we drag our families, (who support us) to a place that has nothing for them. There are auxiliary air bases all over this country that might be used. The local club's facilities need not be the limiting factor for choosing a site. This would require someone at AMA that was experienced in promoting events and acting as liaison to local governments and business men. So I would say that the AMA needs a good promoter.

RCM may well be deep in the hole, I have not seen anything to indicate otherwise, or maybe the owners are just tired of the current trends. You would have to display some hard evidence to make this juror believe that MAN and FLYRC are doing less than great. The evidence displayed to me definitely indicates so. Even Flying Models displays a new perky attitude since they shipped the Associate Editor off to MA. BTW FM charges about 40% MORE for an ad than MA and FM has a circulation of only some 40,000.

For you that cannot understand the differences between Model Aviation and the remainder of the free market commercial modeling media, my proposals will not mean much to you. MA is like a government subsidized business that guarantees the owner a large profit regardless whether he sells anything or not, and gives him a place of business right beside YOUR business of the same type that YOU have to WORK to keep alive.[]

Of course the AMA people running the MA show and keeping the AMA EC OKing their fat cat jobs, probably really enjoy spending YOUR money. As long as you prefer such, I suppose there will be little change.

Okay, I'll have to disagree on MAN. I'm not renewing my subscription. Fly RC is doing well from what I've heard and I like reading it. I don't, however, feel that MA needs to change that much and be operated like a normal magazine. I would like to see more Scale Aerobatics, 3D Flying columns as well as 3D Electrics. These areas are a large section of the potential membership. I also would like to see better construction articles. The 35% 'Project Extra' was okay, but I would have liked to have rib templates because I don't like foam wings. MA should also reduce the number of pages it gives to FF. I am not familiar with the numbers, but I think that FF is only 1% of the membership. Also, I think that columnist should get one page of full color in witch to share their pics.( I don't want to look at an airbrush job that's in black and white) I will agree that MA/AMA needs to support competition and that will increase their membership. I'm torn on the presidents and others like it columns. In one sense, we need to know what they are doing(without bashing), in the other do we need to know? I'll also agree that MA needs to charge the going advertising rate.

I think that perhaps the AMA needs to set a goal other than simply ensuring that its own existence, (the self-aggrandizing bureaucracy part) is around in its current form, at any cost, even if it were at expense of modeling. I agree with Hossfly, if the AMA were run like a business that is responsible to its customers for its very existence, I think we would see a positive change in the AMA and its relationship with the membership which; seems to be getting worse each year.

As it stands right now, it seems to me that the AMA is not in the business of promoting modeling, at least not to new members. I don’t know of any AMA member that first found out about the AMA and then got into modeling. It’s the modelers who build and fly models that promote modeling. Like the poster above, I have for years been wondering why the AMA approaches new prospective members (youngsters) and touts such things as those stick and tissue contraptions in an effort to win their interest over the countless other sports and hobbies that seem far more appealing.

As far as I know, kids still dream and aspire today, just like they did when we were young. Just because a kid can’t start out on a 40% extra or a turbine powered jet doesn’t mean we shouldn’t at least show those aspects of the hobby as being what is possible. In other words I think the AMA should promote itself by using the example of what has been achieved most recently in the hobby while at the same time never forgetting where we came from. I think that if the AMA wants to grow, it needs a new direction and new leaders but as the past elections have shown, this is going to take a little time.

AMA has ignored the sport flier, and particularly the RC sport flier, for decades, keeping them in the fold with the insurance carrot. Now, we have electrics that can perform and can do so at the local park or school grounds with very little danger to anyone - probably a lot safer than baseball or soccer. Since AMA insurance is much less a factor, or no factor at all, what can AMA offer? I see AMA membership continuing to decline with the migration to parkfliers and other electrics until the headquarters operational costs force higher membership fees that inturn reduce the membership.

MA is a magazine that tries to make everyone happy and makes nobody happy and only exists because it has a captured subscriber base. Where is the sport flier covered - and I don't mean the beginner. Further, we continue to see articles, like the review of the two UC ARFs in one issue, which are for a small percentage of the membership - maybe 2% - while the majority go wanting. This is just a continuation of regular publication of UC articles because this is Bob Hunt's area of interest and probably all he knows. He should be read the riot act or dumped! AMA recently commented that they were caught by surprise at the growth on interest base of electrics - where were they in the past several years - with their heads in the sand?

I think AMA officials see the future and it is a much smaller AMA if an AMA at all.

Paul

" MA is a magazine that tries to make everyone happy and makes nobody happy"

Hah, I happen to enjoy it greatly. I like the color pics of other folk's planes, and I LIKE to READ the district reports. It's a great magazine.

At one time the policy at MA was to publish six CL articles a year. I think if you do a recent count the number is down some. The regular FF and CL columns are much less frequent than they used to be. Although most know Bob Hunt as a World Champion CL stunt flier, he is quite knowledgeable and experienced in a wide range of model aviation venues. At least the two CL reviews were of ARF's, and thus fit nicely into the "new" MA. If Model Aviation is to serve all of model aviation, then the microspecialties will get either none at all or more than their fair share. As a microspecialist I prefer the latter.

At one time the policy at MA was to publish six CL articles a year. I think if you do a recent count the number is down some.

I have not done the count as I do not keep MA back issues, but with the two articles in the recent issue, several recent UC construction articles, and more than one UC event report, I think it has probably increased above the 6 you quote..


The regular FF and CL columns are much less frequent than they used to be.


Since they have such a very small number of participants and AMA members, they should be. So are some of the RC columns that have many more participants.

Although most know Bob Hunt as a World Champion CL stunt flier, he is quite knowledgeable and experienced in a wide range of model aviation venues.

Namely? And lets not count tether-plane flying. He certainly knows little about giant RC scale, IMAC, IMAA, RC Pattern, RC Combat - all of which are orders of magnitude larger than UC. I also doubt he has even sport flown RC very much.

How about having Bob Aberle take over - he is much broader in background, much more well published, and probably knows the noncompetitor better, in all areas.



At least the two CL reviews were of ARF's, and thus fit nicely into the "new" MA.

And perhaps fits nicely into the direction that UC is going - a flying rather than a builders sport!

If Model Aviation is to serve all of model aviation, then the microspecialties will get either none at all or more than their fair share. As a microspecialist I prefer the latter.

Of course, you are an avid UC flier, I can undersand your position. However, I'd like to see the majority of members get their fair share of coverage since they are funding AMA and MA. I'd like to see the microspecialities get their fair share and no more. Most of them have their own publications which provide a lot more meaningful information than the short MA columns.

I think AMA is finally moving away from the competators and the microspecialities - maybe Hunt will have to be dragged kicking and screaming!

If MA favored RC completely and no UC you would be singing a different tune!


Paul

Paul, I misspoke, that was six CL construction articles a year, not including coverage of events. I found that out in the context of publishing a CL construction article. As far as Bob Hunt's modeling experience, he is a congenial guy; drop him an email and ask. Just don't mention motorcycles.

Jim

How many poeple who work on the staff of MA (or the AMA for that matter) are under 35? or even 40?

They want to grow the AMA but realistically they are as out of touch with the "growing" areas of flying as the 85 yeard old at the field who comes every day and you've seen fly once in the last 5 years.

I think that's a problem that is understandable and one we'll have to deal with. I would like to contribute more to my club. Right now it looks like I will be 85 before I can contribute much time to anything!

Gary

I enjoy MA. I also like ARFs, Kits, Gas, Rubber, Electrics, Scratch Building, CL, FF, Gliding, Scale, Sport, 3D, Pattern, etc. etc. It seems to me that many people are into only one type of Flying or one type of Plane, and it seems that some(not all) get upset when the whole mag is not devoted to their type of flying or their type of Plane. When you like Model Planes in general you tend to find it is all good.

..........actually my favorite part also. I am never happy with any of my own Planes appearence, and am always wishing mine looked as good as someone elses I see. Must be that "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" theory. I always enjoy seeing what others have done to their Planes, and the very creative ideas they come up with. Nothing impresses me more than some of the super nice scratch built scale Planes I see in MA. I could only wish to have the kind of determination, skill, and patience that some of those builders have.

The AMA tries other media to promote the sport/hobby? I have yet to come across ANY other published media promoting the AMA.

One of the reasons that we have an AMA HQ is for them to do promotion. Yes, they do promotion, of themselves.[>:]

The clubs NEED leadership and advice from upstream. This is, unfortunately, lacking. The whole idea of a national body is 2-way assistance & guidance. Treating us like mushrooms is GOOD for the "leadership" as their cosy club will not be disturbed.

Even though the AMA is a 'not for profit' business it must still be run in a fiscally responsible way. That is not happening.

Safe Flying!