Jim Thomerson

The only flying in mines I know about is when they hold the world indoor freeflight champs in salt mines in Romania. These have been reported on in the past in Model Aviation; but, in the future, such reports will probably be replaced by an exciting and informative review of some ARF. Got to serve the membership, Right?

I have flown considerable FF and CL alone. It is intrinsically dangerous in that you have to divide your attention between flying and situational awareness. However, the three times I have visited the emergency room from not being situationally aware with a propeller, I was not alone.

horace315

My Feedback: (15)

it just makes good sense to have someone else there with you,not a requirement just common sense.it is nice sometimes to have the Sky's all to yourself though.i think this is a common sense question and should be left to each club.the nearest house to my flying field is about 2 miles away and public telephone is about 5 miles,most guys that come to the field do bring cell phones.there should be an age limit on young people i think allowed to fly alone even though they might be accomplished you have to start somewhere,and to have too many young people in numbers without some sort of supervision can be a problem too.but,i think i would rather see a young person out enjoying this sport rather than hanging around on the street corner getting into mischief.i have 5 children and can witness to problems that can arise just IMO.

Wings-RCU

My Feedback: (2)

I am going to open up a can of worms here....but here goes! At every field I have been to, it's the OLD geezers, and not the young punks that are unsafe. The 70 year olds that seem to be a big part of this hobby frequently can't see or hear well enough, let alone have adequate reflexes to control an out of control RC airplane. Do you ever wonder why the TOC pilots are not the most experienced 70 year olds? Let’s look at ourselves before we start judging the "safety" of the young punks.

horace315

My Feedback: (15)

i think youngsters are just as safe as anyone and sometimes more so,they lack experience and judgment is all.its like the two bulls sitting on top the hillside one old bull and the other a young bull,the young bull says hey gramps lets run down there and pick us a cow out,the older bull says son,lets just walk down there and we will pick as many cows as we please......i do agree with you on one thing wings RC,we have one older gentleman at the field that has a lot of trouble with his eyesight and he was a pilot for united,he is really a nice fella but he is very dangerous at times...getting old is hell someone once said.

Hossfly

Then why did I have to pay such rates for auto insurance when my young sons were added to the driver's list? Do you think the insurance companies simply have no basis for their youth rates? Do you think lack of experience and judgment contribute to unsafe practices? NAH you wouldn't!

However as YOU said, "....lack of experience and judgment..." that alone is enough reason for me. Reference back to the beginning of this thread, where I quoted my club's rule: the rule actually resulted from a couple members under 18 at the field with several non-member buddies ranging 15 to 17, all flying and popping tabs on beer cans, caught during a week day.
There are a few of us old grouches that put far too many hard earned after-tax $$$$ and sweat into the Club's ownership of that facility for some kids with pi$_ poor judgment and NO REAL world experience to sheep-herd (flock) it up.
If you're lucky you will be older far before you are ready for it.

For some it is the first step to getting there. It is something that you can prevent. As for me, I look forward to much more of gettinng older.

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

As your insurance rates go up(due to low reaction time and poor vision)



As a teenager who pays my own auto insurance, I found out that the human brain isn't fully able to weigh the risk:reward ratio until 24. This is based on very sound research and that's why premiums are so high until you are 25. It also helps if you are married because that gives one more responsibility and reason not to do something foolish. Girls aren't as aggressive as boys and therefore aren't as much of a collusion risk. As you get older (uppper 60's and beyond) your insurance rates go up due to your losing vision and reaction time no matter how old you are.

Woops

Flyfalcons

That's odd, I thought we were talking about RC here. And as far as RC goes, the young pilots I have seen have been every bit as safe, if not more so, than the older members whose eyesight and coordination are no longer as good as they were.

Flyfalcons

Horrace, after reading your opinion here I started laughing my ass off because of another thread you started in the Clubhouse, talking about how your stress level is so high at the field because of a ................






wait for it.....................













"somewhat senior" pilot crashing his plane right next to another pilot! Just so everyone knows what I'm talking about, here's the link:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3359959/tm.htm



Horrace, if you had any consisentcy in your constant rants and raves, you should be preaching how older club members should be supervised. Because frankly, I'm more scared of someone crashing their plane right next to me due to lack of coordination versus a young pilot who can fly every bit as goood as myself. Maybe I've been forunate in that every club I've belonged to has had young pilots who are very skilled and careful with their planes, or that I've flown against younger pilots in IMAC competitions who are better pilots than you will ever be, but I just don't see this "youth = immaturity = danger to everyone" that you have been harping about. I have, however seen plenty of people getting out of the way of pilots of all ages who just don't have enough control of their planes to be flying unsupervised. Sorry about the long tirade in a thread where I have tried to have fun but your hypocrisy is getting really old.

horace315

My Feedback: (15)

if anyone is caught at our field drinking alcoholic beverages they are removed from the club that is stated in our laws.i have two children still living at home my 15 year old went to get her Lerner's permit yesterday i haven't reported that to my insurance yet, lordy here we go again.when i turned 39 i went for my annual eye exam,my doctor told me i have over 40 eyes,i told him that cant be I'm only 39....lol.I'm 50 now and eyes aren't any worse,or better........as far as our children go its up to us old geezers to try and get to the ones that will listen and reason with the ones that wont,we get them prepared for life then they get out on their own and hopefully when they get to the point where they have to make a decision those endless and tiring echo's from us will ring true to their ears.remember when we were 15.i spent a lot of time with my children starting when they were young.i have three grown children and and 4 grand children.when they come to you and say dad i was rotten when i was a child wasn't i,i just smile and tell them not anymore than i was at that age.it is up to us as parents to love them and teach them from our own good and bad experience's in life,i tried to never let friends, TV, or the schools teach them morals that was my responsibility as a parent.like i said in an earlier post,each club has to set their own rules for the fields fair or not to the youngsters,we all have to follow rules in life no matter what age and we accept them or are not allowed to participate or worse.i just hope when i am 70 that my eyes will still hold up because i do love this sport.

Hossfly

Are you having a "Senior Moment " here/

In this thread I answered the question asked, then in a couple posts I effectively stated that the policy was set-in-stone.
IIRC, I have not belittled the physical skill of youth. That is a proven thing -- they are better. Otherwise professional atheletes would be professionally playing when they are 65+. I don't think that is the norm. OOPS, maybe this is a bit too much off RC for you!! Many years ago, 18-22 year old fighter pilots were the norm, now a Master's degree and 10 or more years training are the norm. EXPERIENCE and WISDOM are the requirements in this world. OTOH, FAR 121 pilots are still required to retire at age 60, a law passed long long ago.

As for my hypocrisy, would you please state where you find it? I do not believe what I have posted indicates I have such. OTOH, I will admit that I did do many foolish things in my youth. Some I definitely do not brag about. I took chances that should have prevented my ever getting old. Experience does dictate how others will react in various situations.

I gather that you are a commercial pilot. With 13 years military and 28 commercial behind me, Falcon person, I wish for your sake that you can read, understand, comprehend, and retain all information within your Flight Manuals, your Company Operations Manuals, FAA regulations, and oversee the "Big Picture" in those serious minutes during certain unforseen aviation experiences, a H_LL of a lot better than you can comprehend these posts within these forums.

Best of luck to you. Remember those passengers are depending on YOUR skills. Basic Reading 101 just might be a ticket to maintaining those skills learned in youth.

Flyfalcons

Hossfly, take another look at your posts. You talk about how youth are more dangerous because of their ""....lack of experience and judgment..." that alone is enough reason for me". Yet, when was the last time a youth at your field actually endangered someone by say, crashing a plane next to another pilot? It is true that youth do have less experience and judgement than seniors, but exactly how much do you need to fly RC safely? I guess one could also make the argument that older pilots who are just starting out also lack the experience that youth lack when starting, so the only real difference we are talking about here is judgement. So now the question is, exactly how much judgement do you need to fly RC safely, to the point where you are not putting people's safety in jeopardy? Can you name an incident at your field when this has happened? And let's not use the alcohol example because we all know there is no way an adult would ever drink while at the field. I feel less safe at my field, and all fields I have flown at, when more senior pilots are flying versus younger pilots. I've just seen too many planes come down in or near the pits and other pilots when the planes are flown by more senior pilots. My own pilot cage was once hit by a plane going full throttle because the pilot (not a youth) simply lost control. Planes don't often fall out of the sky because of lack of judgement; most crashes are simply due to poor piloting skill. Sure, I have seen youth crash airplanes, don't get me wrong there. Rookie mistakes, such as misjudging a flare or pulling when they should have pushed, are made by everyone. So why do you think that when a youth makes a rookie mistake it is due to his lack of judgement?

Flying RC today is nothing like your parallel above to full scale flying today. There are no books to read or regulations to understand when flying RC (besides the very basic AMA safety code and club rules); the only thing that separates a good RC pilot from an unsafe one is piloting skill, pure and simple. EXPERIENCE is something we all get every time we go to the field and fly. This applies both to young and old. WISDOM is what we get after we get enough experience. I have flown with several young pilots who not only had a complete mastery of the aircraft they were flying, but also knew how to keep everything safe for pilots and spectators. I have not seen a single young pilot whose judgement was so lacking that he didn't understand that keeping the plane a safe distance from the flight line is a good idea.

You asked me where I found your hypocrisy, and I explained it in my post above. However, I'll explain it again. You go on about how youth are more dangerous pilots, and at the same time start a thread about how a senior pilot at your field nearly injured another pilot. So let me ask you. If the more senior pilots are causing you to get old and grey, but youth are too dangerous due to their lack of EXPERIENCE and WISDOM, then who exactly are the safe pilots?

Yes, I'm a commercial pilot, but as I said above, flying RC and flying full scale these days really don't have anything to do with each other. One is heavily dependant on hand-eye coordination and another is highly dependant on procedure, problem solving, and planning. If you didn't notice my signature at the bottom of my posts (that whole comprehension thing), my name isn't "Falcon person". It's Ryan. Best of luck to you too.