Excerpts from Model Aviation Magazine, District VI Report (Horrace Cain, D VI VP)

April ‘79

“Considering the low payments in claims, as compared to the premiums paid, could AMA underwrite their own insurance?”

May ‘79

“AMA self-insurance: lack of money. Pay-outs have been large. Big cases still pending.”

“Insurance will continue to be a fluctuating problem. Total per member cost is now budgeted at $2.75 each, plus $40,000 for clubs, which is less than $3.50 per each.”

June ‘79

“Slash my wrists! Right there among the scars! I goofed. Last month I said that club insurance cost $40,000. Not so. At the Council meeting I misunderstood some statement and entered such in my notes. Actually, there is no such expense. AMA’s budget does anticipate $48,000 from club insurance certificates and this helps toward the budgeted expense of $2.75 per member. The total insurance is now $2.00 per each, plus or minus a few cents. The balance of your dues goes to letting you read about these goofs.”

July ‘79

“The more I write on insurance the less it costs. Two months ago I said $2.75 per member. Last month I said @2.00 per member and this month I say it is down to $1.40 a person. AMA will publish details and I am going to shut up before I give all of you tightwads a free ride. No more on insurance—maybe!”

Excerpts from Horrace Cain 2003 EVP Campaign statement:

“In no way do I even pretend to be a financial wizard. I could never be an accountant, as when the boss asks, “What is two plus two,” any good accountant will answer “Whatever you want it to be, sir.” I could only answer “Four”.”

More...

“I say that not only will I tell you all that I know, I will also bring to the EC a different approach to doing modeler business."

*******
Sources: AMA News section in Model Aviation Magazine Digital Archive on AMA website and campaign statement at http://www.modelaircraft.org/03cain.asp

Well, AMA did mess around with a "Self Insured Retention" (SIR) for some years which meant that AMA paid the claims and when all was done, they then went to their Reinsurance Company (ies) for reimbursement.
Reinsurance is insurance for insurance companies and allows them to divvy up the claims among several companies instead of one company getting all the loss.
It was invented in China over 2,000 years ago. They put their cargo in several boats instead of all in one boat.
But, my how things have changed. The population of lawyers exceeds the population growth in this country by far and of most of Africa. And, lest they be on welfare, they all must find something to sue somebody over. What a way to make a living!

3dbob

JR,
While your post is very factual in nature, you know that this is going to start a flame war.
Doug Holland is an accountant.
He is the only accountant who is running for the position of CFO.
We all agree that the CFO of any organization should be CPA or at least an accountant.
The question should be, who can we groom to take the place of Doug Holland if/when he no longer has the position.

One might ask how relevant these quotes from 26 years ago are. Actually, I think they are quite relevant, as they illustrate how little has changed. Horrace had a hard time figuring out what the insurance cost was. Now we can go to Holland's report in MA and know just how much of our dues dollar goes for insurance, right? Not.

I doubt that more than a few on the EC and HQ staff have a clue what the insurance cost is. Sure, we can look at the Declarations page of the insurance policy and read the $840K premium. That's on the order of 10% of AMA's annual income, so one might guess that an Open member pays about 6 bucks for the insurance. Then there is the SIR (yes 3dbob, there still is a SIR), and that's where the fog gets really thick. The annual aggregate SIR is $1.5 Million, so a plebeian non-accountant might expect that AMA would be adequately covered with reserve holdings in that amount, possibly a little more more for carryover into the next year. AMA has substantial holdings in real property and securities that well exceed that figure, and the oft stated reason is that it is reserve for the potential catastrophe of multiple big-buck claims. DB has stated the rationale for the Muncie flying site complex was to convert some of those $$$ reserves to an less liquid form ostensibly less attractive to the bottom feeders in the tort industry.
There's a lot of money in AMA coffers purportedly for insurance reserves, and obviously it comes from our pockets. So, do tell what we are really paying for insurance, and where in documentation available for AMA members' perusal that information can be found - by me and Horrace for example. Is the data any more accessible after several terms of D Holland as EVP than it was 26 years ago?

Abel

deleted. Changed my mind about reply.

Hi JR-

My position made no inferences about Horrace making anything up - that was your slant. To the best of my knowledge he published what he was led to believe were facts. Apparently the real facts were obscured/withheld from him, even as an EC member, and even as he repeatedly tried to pass corrected information to his constituents.
If you read what I wrote and from that concluded that I had been on the EC or inferred that I was, read it again.
You have been unabashed about ragging Horrace to answer the questions you have posed to him here. Why don't you answer my questions? Here they are so you don't have to look back:
"So, do tell what we are really paying for insurance, and where in documentation available for AMA members' perusal that information can be found - by me and Horrace for example. Is the data any more accessible after several terms of D Holland as EVP than it was 26 years ago?"

Abel

good catch!

Abel

Why would you ask me again? I have done an analysis of the last audited statement posted on the AMA site. I posted my conclusions here way back when. You can look it up if you want my opinion. That is all that it was, and I stated that at the time... my opinion. If you do, you will find the words "about $" used frequently.

The AMA made those complete audited statments available, so, yes, information can be found if desired. Is it complete? NO. If you want an accurate statement of insurance expenses, you must, as Dave Brown informed me, and I reported here, some time back, take into account about 5 years for all cases in a given claim year to clear. Only when all cases are resolved can you know what it cost for that year, regardless of the length of time it takes to resolve them. 5 years is about the average. If what you are looking for is instant numbers, they do not exist. That is the reason it is called a Self Insurance RESERVE. The money is reserved till the claims are resolved. Soooo.... yes, the data from 26 years ago is more availiable than todays data which is not complete and will not be for some unspecified time to come. Same answer I posted some time back. Could it have been speculated on accurately then? NO. Anyone involved at the EC level could have or should have known that, IMHO, and numbers should not have been published without explaination. As John Worth often said at the time about questions by AMA members, including the EC members, on various topics, all that was necessary was to ask.

Edit: and you are right, that was my take on what you said, not on what Horrace published back then. Thanks for the clairifcation.

Then the figures are not available from the AMA CFO - only your opinion, based on your analysis.

Well, if I read the insurance policy correctly, AMA isn't liable for more than the $1.5 million aggregate SIR in any given year, so while actuals may vary depending on the outcome of unresolved cases, the bounds are known. So the upper limit on required reserves is $7.5 mil less what has already been paid out of the SIR in those 5 years, and the amounts already paid are known. It shouldn't all that hard to bracket the cost to something more refined than about 6 bucks (no claims paid from SIR) and about 18 bucks (SIR exhausted every year). IIRC, your opinion was about 12 bucks, and that is neatly midway between those limits. I don't object to AMA stating a range where there are uncertainties involved, but providing essentially no information at all is derelict, given that most members are members because of the insurance whether they want/need it or somebody else tells them they need it. And I have an idea what is a prudent reserve. Now can you you point me to a source that discloses what the amount of actual reserves held by AMA is? I've heard figures for AMA's worth that range upwards to $25 mil. Makes me wonder why a $4 mil loan is needed to cover operating expenses. I had a wife (former) that paid our household operating expenses on credit, as she had already spent my paycheck before it was drafted. That isn't my way of doing business, and I question why AMA does it, given our resources that are being plowed into investments and otherwise held in reserve, in the name of the SIR.

And you seem to have made the presumption that Horrace did not ask. I would not presume so.

Abel

Abel

That is what I stated, then and now. It was my opinion. I never asked, nor did I ever say that I asked the opinion of Doug Holland. Is there some part of opinion as opposed to fact supplied by another that you do not understand?

As for your reading of the current information in the current insurance policy, I will take your word for what it says. I have not read it, nor do I intend to. I will, however, point out that the current policy is not with the same company that was in place at the posting of the Audited Financial Statement being discussed and the terms may or may not be the same. I drew my information from the statement only, since it was all that was available at the time of my posting. I had no idea what the limits were at the time. Hind sight, such as you supplied is generally 20/20.

Yes, I made the assumption that Horrace did not ask. Read the complete AMA News section for the time he was on the EC and then draw your conclusions. I did, be they correct or incorrect. Since he stated that he had been corrected, I thought it a safe assumption that no one would give him incorrect information, then offer to correct it. Maybe an invalid conclusion, but a logical one IMHO.

Well JR:

Thank you for bringing to the people here that I, Horrace Cain, will report what I find, think, perceive, etc., and when wrong, misinformed, etc., I will tell the constituency the truth, as I know it. The EC cannot prevent such and that sure POed a few of the non-productives when I was there. If you have not noticed, in this age the MA officer's column is NOT the only method of disseminating information.

Back in those '79 days, we had no computers, no Executive Vice President /CFO, only the briefest information from the Ex. Director, J. Worth --information could often change with the wind -- and the insurance was carried by Lloyd's of London. In addition, '79 was my first year on the EC and I definitely had a lot to learn. _ell, JR, I thought those guys were really interested in promoting the sport of model aviation -- SO NAIVE I was. If I get back on the council, I fully expect to again go through a learning period, however this time I will not have to depend on the Executive Director or any other staff individual as my research abilities are now significantly more sophisticated. In addition I have the resources to camp in Muncie for January and dig some wells. In '79 I had to earn a living along with performing the volunteer duties.

There have been many changes since '79. Back then I was still married to the mother of my children. Yes, JR, many things have changed. CHANGE -- one of the TWO constants in the universe!!

Now JR, I understand that you are a pawn for some EC member that feeds you whatever you need to feel important in your feeble attempts to discredit one Horrace Cain. OTOH, if it were not for embarrassing someone that I really respect, I could well discredit you in several ways with the discoveries I obtained at the Grand Event in Waco, TX, 26-27 Aug. Not a threat because it will not happen -- 98% sure -- however ???? [X(] Anyway, you know the things you say that are not factual. For shame JR.

BTW, go back to the minutes of the Nov. '81 EC minutes. Find that motion that by "official record" gave the Frequency Committee $10,000.00 for operations. IIRC there is no name on the minutes' motion.

Post that here, and then if I can find it out in my barn -- I did dispose of most of that stuff so I may not have it -- the original draft-minutes that stated the real motion was, "Horrace Cain moved to give the Frequency Chairman $10,000.00 for his personal use as he should see fit with no receipts required and no questions asked." Of course it was unanimously approved. They had little choice in that day and age. A short time later the frequencies were released. Ain't that strange???[:-][>:][:-]
Yes, that was another unpopular move by Cain, however JR, when you got 'em by the shorts, their hearts and minds will follow.
I have been in BOTH positions.[:@]

Now Horrace is claiming HE got us the 50 new frequencies. By submitting a motion.
This is nothing more than a slap in the face to all the people who worked so hard for so many years.
How long were you on the EC, exactly, Horrace?

This is like, a post from CANDYLAND. Pure fantasy.

Well, ET-

He was there, you were not. How are we to decide what is the reality?

Abel

You go back and look at who was on the frequency committee, when, for how long. You can go back and look at all the paperwork, all the trips to washington.
I'm out of here. This is like Custer talking about how he won the Civil War.
This is also all just so OLD.
How many times has Horrace run in the past few years? Three?
Same-old-same-old every time, he's not going to get elected.

You know...the OP on this thread points out something very obvious...HC did not know what he was talking about back in 1979, he STILL does not know what he is talking about. BEWARE of people who offer really simple-sounding solutions to complex problems, most often those solutions WILL NOT WORK.
Horrace came busting in with all guns blazing, talking about how he was going to totally re-do the insurance system run by old boy cronyism, that so much money was being wasted, yadda yadda yadda...and it turned out he really had NO IDEA OF WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT.
Now consider today, and how he is talking about how he is going to "fix" Model Aviation to make it more profitable.
Only...he has no idea of what he is talking about.
And another scary thing is he really DOES beleive that if he is made EVP that he will control the money and therefore control AMA's actions. That's powerhungry, nothing more.

For anyone that believes the above rantings of a scared mouse, may I offer my deepest sympathies to you.
Actually I beware those that have NO INPUTS to problems and are unable to do anything but rave and rant without any idea that there is a problem.
Here is one prime example of a TOTAL LIE. Please, Curtiss, produce evidence that I claimed such in my campaign for D-VI VP election.

In addition where have I claimed to "....'fix' Model Aviation..."? Model Aviation has been fixed for sometime and actually the last issue was very good, with exceptional redirection and focus on the AMA.
OTOH, such a good product can well become a profit center for AMA, bringing in revenue to defray member cost. Then think if the magazine remains as good and focused on AMA as its direction now appears to be, then just how far could it go if it gets on the news-stands? Complex, not really for anyone with a bit of moxie and the will to do something besides rave and rant without any concern for making things better.

This came from the headshed just before Rita:
>>>
"One of the reasons I supported ....XXXXXXXX.... and that has proven valuable, but we need to be more aggressive, in my opinion.
I suspect that, if you win the election, we will become more aggressive ......... ???
Good luck this weekend.

Dave Brown"
<<<<<

Edited to add: Curtiss, in reality I, as AMA EVP/CFO, will not control but one thing, and that is the flow of information available to the membership. The information will be both, 1.) WHAT is happening and 2.) WHO is making / allowing / or doing the happening. Then the membership can control whatever they so care to control or at least apply remedial action for whatever they do not like and express approval for that they do like.

Curtiss, I am offering the AMA membership a free ride for improvement. Just tell me what you have to offer, and why you are not yet offering it?

From Dave Brown during the last EVP election... complete and uncensored.
*****

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Brown [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 11:18 AM
To: JR
Subject: Re: EVP Election

I can't answer the questions you pose, with specific numbers, without a lot
of research, but I am, generally , aware of the issues. Most, if not all of
those specific numbers have been printed in the magazine at some point in
the past.

Bear in mind that I was EVP before being President, so I have some
knowledge, and responsibility ,for the increases in the responsibility of
that position.

That position HAS evolved into one of increased financial responsibility as
the organization has grown, in the financial sense.

Historically, I'll try to relate that growth. Back in the early1980's, when
AMA had little in the way of assets, the position of EVP (then it was called
Secy/Treasurer), was a position of little real influence, as the financial
decisions were small in nature, and were made, primarily, by the Controller,
in conjunction with the Executive Director. Guidelines were, occassionally,
established by the EC, but they were very general in nature. The EC members
were primarily, modelers, and left the "business" of the organization to the
hired staff. I still remember the point where that changed. At a January
meeting, the Controller was going over the finances, when we first started
thinking about owning our own Hq's building (the Reston facility was the end
result), and started listing bank, after bank, (17 if my memory serves) in
which we had money deposited. This peaked my interest, and I asked why we
were doing business with so many banks?? Bear in mind that we only had this
large amount of money for a short part of the year, when the renewals flowed
in (this is why I'm sure it was a January meeting). The answer I got,
floored me, when I was told that the EC, somewhere back in time, had decreed
that the AMA would only place it's money in insured deposits,
and, at that time, that meant passbook savings. FDIC insurance would cover
only the first $100k in a bank, so...........$100k was put into passbook
savings at each of MANY banks. Nice, secure, safe, and drawing a whopping
3% or 4%, in a time when the prime rate was running at 14%!!! This policy
was reasonable when it was drafted, but cost us a bundle in those years. I
was mortified, and realized that AMA needed some work in financial
management. Jim McNeil was the S/T at the time, and, by his own admission,
he didn't know much about finance, so I created a plan, whereby we would
create a finance committee. I still think that was the best piece of
"politicking" I ever did, as I managed to talk Jim into making the motion to
establish such a committee. The committee was formed, I was appointed
Chairman, and the wheels of fortune shined well on the financial side of
AMA. We financed the "new" building, and even managed to back a fully
funded insurance program, when that became necessary (1986?). Eventually,
that insurance program, created a considerable amount of financial
wherewithall for the AMA, and provided the basis for financial security for
the organization. Along about then, I got elected to the (now) EVP
position, and I relinquished the chairmanship of the finance committee to Ed
McCollough, who held that position until he stepped down as VP (I had
insisted that the EVP not be chairman of this committee, as a point and
counterpoint measure). In the position of EVP, I monitored the financials
of the organization, making a few decisions in terms of investment
opportunities (not my strongest suit), but leaving most of those decisions
up to the bankers, and "professionals" in the field of investment. As the
AMA's reserves grew, (needed to back the insurance program), it became
obvious that we were becoming a bigger target for lawsuits, as we were "too"
liquid, in that we had a pile of "cash", which made the organization a
lucrative target for "cash hungry" atty's. It was at this point that I
recommended to the EC that we invest in a national flying site, which,
ultimately, became the facility at Muncie. Along the way, decisions such as
dumping the self funded insurance program, when it became cheaper to,
simply, purchase insurance, were made, in consultation with professionals in
the field, as well as the finance, and insurance committees, and the AMA
continued to grow, in the financial sense. When I was elected President, it
was obvious that my "replacement" as EVP should be a professional in the
area of finance. I'm a self taught businessman, who happened to have been an
accountant in the military, I know how to run a business, but the financial
complications of AMA had started to outgrow my expertise, the AMA needs a
professional at that position. We were very fortunate to find Doug Holland
(CPA) , a modeling friend of Chuck Foreman (and Dist4 AVP, I think) , and He
was elected to the position. Doug has done a good job, in some trying times,
and, while we have had our differences in opinion, from time to time, his
expertise has kept the AMA going in the financial sense. I can't imagine
replacing him with a non-professional.

The position of EVP, like many others in AMA, evolved into the position it
is today, rather than "changed". Is it the same position it was 25 years
ago? No, it isn't, just like the position of accountant in any company has
changed, immensely. 25 years ago, accounting was a quill pen, and green
visor job, where a computer was used by only the largest companies.
(Ironically, I worked on computerising the Army's First Armored Division in
1970). I guess it's like a club treasurer, who starts out with a club of a
dozen,
and ends up with 400 members, he, too, will undergo some changes, and few
clubs of that size don't seek out someone with some professional experience.
The bylaws are undergoing a serious review, at this time, in order to make
them reflect the reality of this evolution. These revisions effect a lot
more than just the EVP, as you can well imagine.

Responsibility for our investments is part of the EVP's position, but it is
also part of the finance committee, and, ultimately, the EC. In our
situation, the day to day decisions are done by the banks, which hold, and
manage, the money. They do the investing, and the EVP monitors their
activities, Occassionally, the EVP may disagree with the bank's decisions,
and he will tell them to change our investments. Primarily, it's important
that the bank's get results, and it's up to the EVP to report any problems
to the EC, as well as to negotiate with anyone with whom we have a financial
relationship. An example would be the bond issue we got to finance the new
building. In the process, we consolidated all of our debt into the one bond
issue, and are paying out considerably less interest than we would if it
wasn;t for that bond issue.

Traditionally, we have realized considerable income from investments, many
of which are mutual funds, but those have performed poorly, due, in
principal, to the stock market decline. Where in the past, we could plan on
$600k per year in investment income, it's now down to $100k, and we will be
lucky to get that. I don't have the exact numbers made, or lost to date, and
even if I did, they wouldn't mean much, as some would be "real" losses,
while most would be "paper" losses, where the portfolio was worth less, but
that loss wouldn't be real unless we sold the elements which lost
value. Those losses have a compound effect, as they mean less "investment",
AND a smaller return % wise.

Deficit budgets are a fact of life, and will often be the case in the
non-profit world. For the last few years, we have been budgeting for
losses, yet, efficiencies by the HQ's staff (not hiring open positions, for
example), have lessened the impact, Even in the last couple of years, the
losses were covered, in the cash sense, by the money represented by the
"non-cash" nature of depreciation expense. In other words, the budget might
have $500k in depreciation expense, but that is not money you must spend,
but rather, reflects the decrease in value of the non-cash assets you have.
Until last year, this was sufficient, last year it wasn't, and this year we
had to increase the dues. This is a cyclical thing, avoidable only if you
change the dues each year. Our members have been plain that they would
prefer increases less often, so that means larger amopunts, and creating
some excess for a while, to "buffer" the financial picture.

I'm really proud of what AMA has accomplished in terms of financial security
for the organization. I remember the days when the organization didn't have
much more than two quarters to rub together, and would have been hard
pressed to survive if faced with todays issues. Without financial security,
the organization will fail, and if the organization fails, the sport of
aeromodeling will soon follow, as, without the voice of a strong national
organization, able to provide insurance to the clubs, and site owners, the
sport can't survive. This election, I think the modelers have a choice
between three good people, One of which, by his own admission, knows little
about the real world of finance, and two which are Certified Public
Accountants, I will vote for the one we have, as I know he will continue to
do a good job. The other accountant in this election would be a god choice
when Doug decides to step aside, but as long as Doug is willing to do the
job, I'll support him.

No one is capable of doing that job, in a vacumn. Anyone who is to do that
job, adequately, will rely on his/her cadre of outside advisers to answer
specialty questions. While it's great to have a few friends to ask these
questions of, it's more important to know what to ask, and THAT is my fear
if we do not have someone with a financial background in that position.

The biggest threat isn't the wrong answer to a question, but rather the
question you didn't know enough to ask, and I'd rather have my money being
managed by a professional, than by an amature, with an attitude. AMA isn't
"run" by the EC, and no one is able to run roughshod over the EC. The AMA
policies are the result of a concensus among the people you elect. It
doesn't matter how loud an individual member of the EC shouts, unless he/she
can attain concensus among the majority of the board, he/she can't get
anything done. All the namecalling, and berating in the world, won't do any
more that bring about stalemate, and stagnation. What's needed is someone
who can take good ideas, and mold them into action which is supported by the
majority on the EC, It requires working together, not commanding, but rather
convincing, and compromises to get the job done. Our present EVP has shown
that ability, why would we change horses now?

Dave Brown

PS for specific numbers, review the financial reports in Model Aviation, or
write to the current EVP.


----- Original Message -----
From: JR <[email protected]>
To: Dave Brown <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 10:02 AM
Subject: EVP Election


> Dave,
>
> Several items have come up in discussions about the current EVP election.
I
> hope you can help me with some accurate information. Please do NOT
consider
> anything in the correspondence confidential, as it may be used in
> discussion, with you as it's source.
>
> 1) Do you have any knowledge of a change in the responsibilities of the
EVP?
> If so, who made them and by what mechanism? Please note the difference in
> the responsibilities outlined in the by-laws and the description used by
Mr.
> Holland in his campaign statement.
>
> 2) Does Mr. Holland hold sole responsibility for the investments the AMA
> makes in the stock market? Is there any oversight or other mechanism to
> control his decisions in this regard?
>
> 3)A number of references have been made to the AMA having investments in
the
> stock market. Can you tell me how much was made or lost on those
investments
> in 2001? Can you tell me how much has been made or lost, year to date, in
> 2002?
>
> 2)In the EC minutes of the February 9, 2002 meeting the following
statement
> appears:
>
> "The EVP explained the concept of deficit financing. The Academy has been
> deficit financing for 3 years but it has not experienced a deficit
financing
> year due to increased membership, interest in the American market, and not
> spending what was budgeted. He reported that AMA should not continue to
> operate that way because it does not have the earnings in the market, and
> has increased expenses. (Insurance, postage, cost of living)"
>
> Dave, can you tell me the amount of those deficits for the 3 years
> mentioned, before the adjustments were made?
>
> As always, thanking you in advance
>
> Jean-Pierre Rondot (JR)
> AMA 732
> CD/Leader Member
>


*

Hey JR; IDEA!!!

You are a History Buff for the negative. I lean to Future on the Positive using history as a tool for what CAN be done.

Perhaps if YOU and I worked together we could get AMA to revise the Bylaws to:

"Once an individual is elected to office, such individual or such position will never be contested until that individual either is deceased or the organization goes into Chapter 7 or 13."

Just think, all these incidents that you spend so much time researching for would not have to be done. You might even find a few minutes to do something productive. [>:]

Sorry Horrace, actually, I am for term limits.

Intersting you would post something with Jim Sears in it. Isn't he the one that you made an instant VP. Wasn't a LM until you made him one just for that purpose? Showed Jim McNiell how it was done, IIRC. Is my memory failing?

As far as proffering ideas, that has been suggested to you in this forum and you posted that you would not offer your ideas unless elected, if my memory serves correctly. I guess Grigg was at least trying to be nice, though. Hope springs eternal.

IMO in all politics, TERM LIMITS are the obligations of the voters.


MEMORY FAILING? _ELL MAN YOU DON'T HAVE A MEMORY TO FAIL. Jim Sears was a long time Contest Director. In those days before the Lowe/Underwood team changed things, CDs, after one year, were automatically given Leader Member status as they should be. He was a Leader for years.
Jim Sears was also a rather early appointee as an Associate Vice President. He and I disagreed on a number of things however he was very influential in some decisions I made. I respected his counsel. He was my first choice as a replacement when I chose to vacate the position. Fortunately the EC agreed.

Some of you don't think anyone should use counsel, however I fully believe that there are many smart people out there and the more information one can gather the better one can make those important decisions. IMO, decisions should be for the overall good rather than simply one individual's personal gratification.

"....instant VP.." JR seek help, you do need it. JR, in your sailplane competitions, did you ever win a SECOND PLACE? Do you know what 2nd Place really is? 2nd place, JR is simply the FIRST LOSER. BTDT many times, and all the way down the food chain! [:@]
Guess you like being 2nd place.

Horrace

Sears seems to remember it a little differently in your December 79 column.

Here is an excerpt written by Sears in that column.

“Last year at this time I was probably wondering what a Leader member is; and now I am one! To be honest, I was shocked when H. Cain accepted a small-town Kentucky modeler as an AVP. Now, here I am writing an article in this month’s District VI report. Will wonders never cease?”

This sure does look like a series of attacks on one Horrace Cain and I swear this very attacker reamed me out and told me not to do that. I smell the rotten stench of a double standard since he seems to be saying the same things I was (and still think)...

That being said I also warn of those that insist all solutions must be complex for they are just looking for another way into your wallet or trying to get more control over your life. Created complexities are how bureaucrats justify their continued existence at our expense. One other item to note that many seem to ignore. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the financial well being of the AMA is NOT tied to the insurance industry but is a smoke screen used to hide other expenses we may or may not like but have no right to know about. If we had that right, they would be reported in MA before the funds were spent to give the membership a chance to know anything about budget plans.

Sort of like when the dues were raised because we had a cash flow problem and just after the very first EC meeting after the dues increase the AMA announced it had bought a show. I don't think that was anywhere as clean a process as it should have been, but it is water under the bridge since we now have the Winter show in southern California.

JR, you are not doing yourself any favors. I know you are not as incompetent as you display here, however someone else may not be so sure of that.

I came on board as the Dist. VI VP in '79. Given that Sears wrote a Dec. '79 article he had to submit that by early Sep. '79.
To be allowed to write an article for my column would not have happened the first month on duty so obviously he came on earlier than Sep. '79.Considering he became DVP in Jan'82 that places Jim as an AVP for at least 2.5 years. You can look it up. I don't feel the need to.

IMO that does NOT constitute "...instant DVP...". You can call it whatever you wish. You definitely are no virgin to being WRONG. Neither am I, however you seem to have a very good lead for any race we might be having there. [>:] (Edited to add "Yes, there is a bait here.")

Yet, JR, I do thank you for continuing to discredit yourself in a public forum. OTOH I do feel some empathy for your plight, yet you have used up my sympathy.

Interesting discussion, Horrace. Just who are the voters you are talking about, specifically? How many votes did Sears get in '82? Is that the type of voter obligation your are discussing?

Gosh, this never gets old!
All the material is always so fresh!
You could have clipped this thread straight from RCO back in 1999 or whatever, same old same old.