Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
11-05-2002, 04:03 PM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
I called this morning to the AMA and asked why I haven't received my ballot. They asked for my AMA # and then read me someone else's name. "NO that's not me!" I said, then gave her the AMA# again. They got it correct the 2nd time. OK, I can accept a simple mistake. Then she claimed that they sent me a ballot. I told her that I never received it. (computer tapping noises in the background) She insisted it was sent out and verified my home address. Then she said that I should check with my post office, maybe they had it. She said it went out with my renewal. When I told her that I was already paid up through next year and asked if maybe they didn't send me a renewal, I heard more keyboard tapping...."No, all renewals went out the first week in October, we sent it to your home address and we can't send out another" I then explained to her that I just joined in October. "Oh, then we didn't send you one" Was she just feeding me a bunch of BULL and got caught in a lie??? What was with all the keyboard tapping noises and address verification questions? Was she trying to make it sound like she was really checking on it?
She also told me that I was NOT eligible to vote until next year. Can I check to make sure my AMA#/Vote isn't fraudulently used this year?
Very suspicious!
She also told me that I was NOT eligible to vote until next year. Can I check to make sure my AMA#/Vote isn't fraudulently used this year?
Very suspicious!
11-05-2002, 05:30 PM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
I wouldn't think she meant to lie to you intentionally. I am guessing that they have rules that if you are not a member when the ballots go out, you can't join later and vote. That could cause all kinds of headaches. I am sure your ama number didn't get used in the vote. I wouldn't hold it against them. I am sure it was just a missunderstanding.
11-05-2002, 05:51 PM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
I am guessing that they have rules that if you are not a member when the ballots go out, you can't join later and vote...
How can that be a misunderstanding???
I want to be open minded but when they have you on hold so they can PRETEND to check your info in the computer and then VERIFY that a ballot has been sent when in fact it was not....well you see my point, this was an obvious deception. Either she had the info about sending the ballot and lied or she didn't have the info but led me to believe that she did. Either way you look at it, it was dishonest!
I agree, I probably was not eligible to vote but why put on the act? This whole charade breeds mistrust - BIG TIME!!!
11-05-2002, 06:34 PM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
Well it sounds like you pretty much have it figured out as dishonest and a conspiracy (grassy knoll theory and two shooters etc…) lol. Thought you were asking for other opinions?
My guess based on 8 years of IT customer service center experience is that your experience was probably a result of an innocent misunderstanding. The keyboard tapping you heard was the ama person checking the computer db for...your address...your ama # identification. Beyond that she made the leap of faith of saying it was mailed because all eligible ama members received a ballot or should have since according to her records they all went out. Of course the person on the phone you spoke with didn't actually go to the post office with your particular ballot.
She should have checked the db for your date of sign up or just realized you just signed up based on you ama #. Remember the people you talk to on the phone are not experts they rely on the systems they use to provide you the customer/member with information. The ama probably needs to upgrade their software, but that would cause a increase in dues. :-)
Well, that's what I would chalk it up to, but everyone to there own.
Mike
My guess based on 8 years of IT customer service center experience is that your experience was probably a result of an innocent misunderstanding. The keyboard tapping you heard was the ama person checking the computer db for...your address...your ama # identification. Beyond that she made the leap of faith of saying it was mailed because all eligible ama members received a ballot or should have since according to her records they all went out. Of course the person on the phone you spoke with didn't actually go to the post office with your particular ballot.
She should have checked the db for your date of sign up or just realized you just signed up based on you ama #. Remember the people you talk to on the phone are not experts they rely on the systems they use to provide you the customer/member with information. The ama probably needs to upgrade their software, but that would cause a increase in dues. :-)
Well, that's what I would chalk it up to, but everyone to there own.
Mike
11-05-2002, 07:30 PM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
So they didn't deliberately lie, they're just incompetent?
Why make a leap of faith at all? I could've done that. I'm calling 10 days before the vote and reporting that I haven't received the ballot. With less than 2 weeks I'm not looking for a guess; I'm looking for answers.
Why even check the computer? A simple "Well sir, all ballots were mailed out in Oct. with the renewals". Why go through all the motions of looking it up? If they were mailed in Oct. then they were mailed in Oct. What in the computer will tell her different? It was not only insulting but a waste of my time and hers to simply make a leap of faith.
Was this an attempt to placate me? I much prefer honesty. If you don't know then please say you don't know, I can respect that but don't make guesses and state them as fact.
If I didn't press the issue, if I just accepted her statement that it was mailed out then I'd still be waiting for nothing. Is that good customer service?
Was it a deliberate lie? I'm sure it wasn't malicious but her 'Leap of Faith' as you call it, was still an intentional delivery of questionable information. She really didn't know but chose not to state that she didn't know. I can't think of ANY customer service situation where it would be acceptable to pass off a guess as fact to a paying customer (or member).
Why make a leap of faith at all? I could've done that. I'm calling 10 days before the vote and reporting that I haven't received the ballot. With less than 2 weeks I'm not looking for a guess; I'm looking for answers.
Why even check the computer? A simple "Well sir, all ballots were mailed out in Oct. with the renewals". Why go through all the motions of looking it up? If they were mailed in Oct. then they were mailed in Oct. What in the computer will tell her different? It was not only insulting but a waste of my time and hers to simply make a leap of faith.
Was this an attempt to placate me? I much prefer honesty. If you don't know then please say you don't know, I can respect that but don't make guesses and state them as fact.
If I didn't press the issue, if I just accepted her statement that it was mailed out then I'd still be waiting for nothing. Is that good customer service?
Was it a deliberate lie? I'm sure it wasn't malicious but her 'Leap of Faith' as you call it, was still an intentional delivery of questionable information. She really didn't know but chose not to state that she didn't know. I can't think of ANY customer service situation where it would be acceptable to pass off a guess as fact to a paying customer (or member).
11-05-2002, 07:52 PM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
You posted a message asking for opinions...you get an opinion different from yours and get pissed.
All I was trying to point out is that she had to check for accurate information such as your ama #, tied to your name, and correct address. Otherwise, the ballot could have been mailed to an incorrect address or other types of inconsistencies resulting in other issues.
Are you saying you would have been more satisified with having the person on the phone just tell you they mailed them all and goodbye? From what you posted initially, once she validated your personal informtion (address) she told you they were sent out. I don't see a big difference. Is the first time you had a less than steller customer service experience...things like this happen all the time. And like I said, generally the resolution lies with better software, because the person on the phone only knows what the s/w tells them.
Of all the meainingful things in your life is this issue with the ama ballot worth the attention your giving it? Did you vote today in your local or state election?
By the way who would you have voted for in the ama?
Mike
All I was trying to point out is that she had to check for accurate information such as your ama #, tied to your name, and correct address. Otherwise, the ballot could have been mailed to an incorrect address or other types of inconsistencies resulting in other issues.
Are you saying you would have been more satisified with having the person on the phone just tell you they mailed them all and goodbye? From what you posted initially, once she validated your personal informtion (address) she told you they were sent out. I don't see a big difference. Is the first time you had a less than steller customer service experience...things like this happen all the time. And like I said, generally the resolution lies with better software, because the person on the phone only knows what the s/w tells them.
Of all the meainingful things in your life is this issue with the ama ballot worth the attention your giving it? Did you vote today in your local or state election?
By the way who would you have voted for in the ama?
Mike
11-05-2002, 08:03 PM
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CYBOR HAS A POINT
I'm with him, this is too fishy to just be a misunderstanding. Yes, it can only be a plot to disscriminate against urban middle classed rc pilot's and there plight against the oppressive devil slave master's. I mean how dare she (or the gal next to her) make typing noises while on the phone. That constant clicking, clicking CLICKING CLICKING!!!! Obviously some type of psychological warfare bent on breaking you down to where you didn't notice the underlying run around being served up. This is way over our heads and should be turned over to Mulder and Scully, there more prepared to deal with this type of problem.
11-05-2002, 08:29 PM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
I agree.....get over it. Life is to short to spend so much time on a little incident.
Go on with life and look for some good things to deal with.
Go on with life and look for some good things to deal with.
11-05-2002, 08:30 PM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
I agree with CyberPilot. If he wanted someone to give him an answer that was just a guess. He could have just posted on this forum and he would have gotten plenty of respones (Most of them wrong) 
instead he called the AMA. Guess what he got misleading info. now some of you say that mistakes happen and people assume things thats all well and good but the fact is that if you're not sure you don't guess and pass the answer of as fact. Do that on this board and people will bust you big time!!!
I too would rather have someone tell me they don't know then give as guess passed of as the gospel truth.
instead he called the AMA. Guess what he got misleading info. now some of you say that mistakes happen and people assume things thats all well and good but the fact is that if you're not sure you don't guess and pass the answer of as fact. Do that on this board and people will bust you big time!!!
I too would rather have someone tell me they don't know then give as guess passed of as the gospel truth.
11-05-2002, 08:39 PM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
Its not the presidential elections....For the United States at least... 
Probably an honest mistake on her part. I'm pretty sure you have to be an AMA member (and not a minor), for at least a year to be eligible to vote.
IMHO, Get over it.
Probably an honest mistake on her part. I'm pretty sure you have to be an AMA member (and not a minor), for at least a year to be eligible to vote.
IMHO, Get over it.
11-05-2002, 08:46 PM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
On the bright side there is no one up for election in cyberpilots district X according to the November AMA magazine.
Well, I've got to get ready to go and vote for congress, assembly, and comptroller.
Mike
Well, I've got to get ready to go and vote for congress, assembly, and comptroller.
Mike
11-05-2002, 11:06 PM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
First of all, I'm not getting pissed at the responses (as someone had suggested). However, I am upset with my experience with the AMA phone call (stated in the thread topic) that hasn't changed.
This thread is not about a missing ballot; it's about how they handled it.
Let's be clear here. I'm not upset about her not knowing where my ballot is, I'm not upset about not being able to vote this year. I'm not upset that she guessed that it was in the mail. Guessing is OK as long as the person your giving the info to is aware of that.
It bothers me that she told me, as if it were fact, as if she looked it up on the computer right then and there that my particular ballot was mailed when she really didn't know what happened. If my AMA# was 123 and she accidentally typed #124 that would be an honest mistake but that's not the case here.
Picture this situation. You purchased something from a hobby shop via mail order and it doesn't arrive as expected. You call and the person asks for the order #, they pull it up on the computer and verifies your address then tells you "Yes it was shipped". In reality, it's actually back ordered and has not shipped; they don't have shipping info on their computer. In this scenario they really don't know what's going on with your order; they just tell you it was shipped. They're guessing because other orders that day shipped. We can argue whether this was a lie or an incompetent mistake but in either case, it's not OK and it's not good customer service.
It's this attitude and the lack of honesty that's a concern.
Wouldn't you like to know that your votes (and other AMA business) are not treated with the same general disregard?
This thread is not about a missing ballot; it's about how they handled it.
Let's be clear here. I'm not upset about her not knowing where my ballot is, I'm not upset about not being able to vote this year. I'm not upset that she guessed that it was in the mail. Guessing is OK as long as the person your giving the info to is aware of that.
It bothers me that she told me, as if it were fact, as if she looked it up on the computer right then and there that my particular ballot was mailed when she really didn't know what happened. If my AMA# was 123 and she accidentally typed #124 that would be an honest mistake but that's not the case here.
Picture this situation. You purchased something from a hobby shop via mail order and it doesn't arrive as expected. You call and the person asks for the order #, they pull it up on the computer and verifies your address then tells you "Yes it was shipped". In reality, it's actually back ordered and has not shipped; they don't have shipping info on their computer. In this scenario they really don't know what's going on with your order; they just tell you it was shipped. They're guessing because other orders that day shipped. We can argue whether this was a lie or an incompetent mistake but in either case, it's not OK and it's not good customer service.
It's this attitude and the lack of honesty that's a concern.
Wouldn't you like to know that your votes (and other AMA business) are not treated with the same general disregard?
11-05-2002, 11:06 PM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
Maybe We should call the WHAAAbulance!
Would a Whaamburger and a side of french cries help you?
Just kidding! couldnt help myself!
Digger!
Would a Whaamburger and a side of french cries help you?
Just kidding! couldnt help myself!
Digger!
11-05-2002, 11:25 PM
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MORE LIKE THIS
You pull up to the window, after you gave your order to the teenager on the intercom. You receive your order from a different teenager at the next window.To your surprise when inspected , they didn't super size your fries. Are they both lier's and thieves, or is just one of them incompetent or lying. OR Maybe they just didn't pay good enough attention and made an honest mistake. What then. go back and explain and get your extra fries , or go to the manger and try and get them fired, Maybe you could just write it off and go to a chat forum and whine about them.
11-06-2002, 12:04 AM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
...Are they both lier's and thieves, or is just one of them incompetent or lying...
In your situation, if I ordered a burger and the the guy at the window had a bunch of bags in front of him and blindly grabbed one to give to me. I would classify that as an incompetent mistake and might have a word with his manager. Not to get him fired rather to voice my concern and ask for better service.
Now if in the same situation I asked him if he was sure that was my order and he said yes but he clearly didn't check then that's a lie (whether it be from laziness or whatever) and I would definitely have a discussion with his manager. Same mistake but now he's lying about it.
In these hypothetical cases and with my phone call; I'm not trying to get anyone fired. I don't know where you got that idea but I do expect decent service for my money. Furthermore, I don't think it's out of the question to get an honest answer.
Mistakes are OK, I don't like them but they happen and I accept that. But if you try to lie about it or deceive me then that's a different story.
As for taking this discussion to a chat forum, I don't think so. If you don't like it please feel free not to read or respond. This forum is for our concerns and questions about the AMA. I feel that my situation shows lack of professionalism on their part and I believe that it belongs here. Unless the moderators feel differently, here is where it will stay.
C.P.
11-06-2002, 12:13 AM
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humm
My scenario was hypothetical as was your's, also, I didn't accuse you of trying to get anyone fired, nor did I ask you to go anywhere. I just have an opinion as do you, were both welcome to have one, I just like mine better than your's is all
11-06-2002, 12:18 AM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
Sounds like someone trying to do there job to me, and someone else who just can't get over it.
Instead of whining about it, try politely calling back for clarification on whether you are entitled to vote when you only joined in October. I am not sure, but I don't think you are. Either way, I suspect this simple point is where the confusion lies.
Instead of whining about it, try politely calling back for clarification on whether you are entitled to vote when you only joined in October. I am not sure, but I don't think you are. Either way, I suspect this simple point is where the confusion lies.
11-06-2002, 12:34 AM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
P-51B,
You've missed the point entirely. It's not a question of whether I can vote. It's the lack of professionalism in their handling of the situation.
In rebuttal, I don't think they were trying very hard to do their job. My opinion of their job would be to find an answer or to inform me that they don't have an answer; not to guess and pass it on as fact. Perhaps that's good enough for some... maybe some people are so used to sub-standard service that they can no longer tell the difference
You've missed the point entirely. It's not a question of whether I can vote. It's the lack of professionalism in their handling of the situation.
In rebuttal, I don't think they were trying very hard to do their job. My opinion of their job would be to find an answer or to inform me that they don't have an answer; not to guess and pass it on as fact. Perhaps that's good enough for some... maybe some people are so used to sub-standard service that they can no longer tell the difference
11-06-2002, 12:39 AM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
If you did any work like this in your life or helped with systems design as I did you would realize that there is a lot of data on the database. She quite innocently didn't look at the join date and assumed you had been sent the ballot. This would be quite the normal error in any situation like this. Most people calling regarding a ballot would not have joined within the last couple of weeks, so she/he is not even thinking of that as being part of the equation. Nobody is perfect. Certainly no plot to mislead you. Absolutely an innocent mistake. Believe me! I'm a fussy sytems analyst and know how these things work. She was really trying to help. Most organizations don't have history attached to your membership to account for every activity. They don't update the database when a peice of paper goes out, typically. Only join date, membership paid to, etc.
11-06-2002, 12:43 AM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
Originally posted by CyberPilot
P-51B,
You've missed the point entirely. It's not a question of whether I can vote. It's the lack of professionalism in their handling of the situation.
In rebuttal, I don't think they were trying very hard to do their job. My opinion of their job would be to find an answer or to inform me that they don't have an answer; not to guess and pass it on as fact. Perhaps that's good enough for some... maybe some people are so used to sub-standard service that they can no longer tell the difference
P-51B,
You've missed the point entirely. It's not a question of whether I can vote. It's the lack of professionalism in their handling of the situation.
In rebuttal, I don't think they were trying very hard to do their job. My opinion of their job would be to find an answer or to inform me that they don't have an answer; not to guess and pass it on as fact. Perhaps that's good enough for some... maybe some people are so used to sub-standard service that they can no longer tell the difference
Actually, I understand the point very well, since it has belabored it so much! I have been on both ends of the customer service spectrum and realize the difference between good customer service and poor. However, I also understand that there are some customers who just can't be pleased. They would rather focus on the conflict instead of the resolution.
Like you said it is your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions...everybody has one and they all......
:spinnyeye
11-06-2002, 12:47 AM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
Originally posted by 4*60
Certainly no plot to mislead you. Absolutely an innocent mistake.
Certainly no plot to mislead you. Absolutely an innocent mistake.
Actually, I think I heard THEM talking about this plot while I was in the alien section of area 51 last week........
Yes....Mulder was there too.
11-06-2002, 01:00 AM
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Just called AMA - very upset (lied too?)
Your hypothetical about placing an order and then getting misinformation regarding shipment is apples to oranges compared to the ballot issue.
When you place an order and receive an order number you can assume the business is using an "order tracking system". The main purpose of this system is to "track" the order; so one can make a reasonable assumption it will be tracked. Billions of dollars each year are spent on such systems, because they mean the difference between excellent vs poor customer service. The person you speak to on the phone probably makes minimum wage and has been employed for less than a year. The information they have for each customer is only what the system tells them...when the computer is down you know what they tell you ... the systems down call back or we'll call you.
My understanding is that each member received a ballot with their renewal. The way most business perform this task is via an automated envelope insertion machine. Each envelope gets the renewal and the inserts (ballot).
Quote from your post:
"She said it went out with my renewal. When I told her that I was already paid up through next year and asked if maybe they didn't send me a renewal, I heard more keyboard tapping...."No, all renewals went out the first week in October, we sent it to your home address and we can't send out another" I then explained to her that I just joined in October. "Oh, then we didn't send you one""
End quote:
She told you it went out with the renewal; you didn't get a renewal so you wouldn't have gotten a ballot. She misunderstood "paid up through next year"; all current members are paid up through year end. At this point I don't think she understood you were a new member. Once that was clear to the person on the phone all was resolved. My guess is that ama systems don't actually track each persons ballot...probably would be considered an infringement on privacy??
Now I believe you have a point about a potential for improved customer service. But in order to solve this a few things would needed to happen and both will cost more.
1) Better trained people on the phone...this will probably cost more in wages since generally folks that are tied to the phone are the lowest paid employees. This may require dues to be increased and I think most folks are opposed. Especially given the number of people that actually call the ama...I think you might be a one percenter.
2) Improved systems for tracking; again cost etc...not sure there is a need considering the big picture.
I'm sorry to hear you are having such a poor experience with the hobby as a new member. Hopefully things will get better for you...my suggestion let some of the small things role off.
Mike
When you place an order and receive an order number you can assume the business is using an "order tracking system". The main purpose of this system is to "track" the order; so one can make a reasonable assumption it will be tracked. Billions of dollars each year are spent on such systems, because they mean the difference between excellent vs poor customer service. The person you speak to on the phone probably makes minimum wage and has been employed for less than a year. The information they have for each customer is only what the system tells them...when the computer is down you know what they tell you ... the systems down call back or we'll call you.
My understanding is that each member received a ballot with their renewal. The way most business perform this task is via an automated envelope insertion machine. Each envelope gets the renewal and the inserts (ballot).
Quote from your post:
"She said it went out with my renewal. When I told her that I was already paid up through next year and asked if maybe they didn't send me a renewal, I heard more keyboard tapping...."No, all renewals went out the first week in October, we sent it to your home address and we can't send out another" I then explained to her that I just joined in October. "Oh, then we didn't send you one""
End quote:
She told you it went out with the renewal; you didn't get a renewal so you wouldn't have gotten a ballot. She misunderstood "paid up through next year"; all current members are paid up through year end. At this point I don't think she understood you were a new member. Once that was clear to the person on the phone all was resolved. My guess is that ama systems don't actually track each persons ballot...probably would be considered an infringement on privacy??
Now I believe you have a point about a potential for improved customer service. But in order to solve this a few things would needed to happen and both will cost more.
1) Better trained people on the phone...this will probably cost more in wages since generally folks that are tied to the phone are the lowest paid employees. This may require dues to be increased and I think most folks are opposed. Especially given the number of people that actually call the ama...I think you might be a one percenter.
2) Improved systems for tracking; again cost etc...not sure there is a need considering the big picture.
I'm sorry to hear you are having such a poor experience with the hobby as a new member. Hopefully things will get better for you...my suggestion let some of the small things role off.
Mike