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Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

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Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

Old 12-17-2005, 11:15 AM
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Default Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

Lithium batteries have become extremely popular for powering control and power systems in models because of their high energy density (capacity/weight ratio) compared to Ni-Cds or other batteries. With high energy comes increased risk in their use. The principle risk is fire, which can result from improper charging, crash damage, or shorting the batteries.

All Lithium-battery vendors warn customers of this danger and recommend extreme caution in their use. However, many fires have resulted from the misuse of Li-Poly batteries, leading to the loss of models and automobiles. Other property, such as homes, garages, and workshops, have also burned.

A Lithium-battery fire burns explosively at several thousand degrees and is an excellent initiator for ancillary fires. Fire is caused by contact between Lithium and oxygen in the air. It needs no other source of ignition, or fuel, to start.

The following is recommended for Lithium batteries to preclude ancillary fires.

1) Store and charge in a fireproof container—never in your model.

2) Charge in a protected area that is devoid of combustibles.

3) In the event of damage from crashes, etc., carefully move the battery pack to a safe place for at least a half hour to observe. Physically damaged cells can erupt into flames.
After sufficient time to ensure safety, the cells should be discarded in accordance with the instructions that come with the batteries. Never attempt to charge a cell with physical damage, regardless of how slight.

4) Always use chargers designed for the specific purpose; it’s preferable to have a fixed setting for your particular pack. Many fires occur while using selectable/adjustable chargers that are set improperly. Never attempt to charge Lithium cells with a charger that is not specifically designed for Lithium cells! Never use chargers that are specifically designed for Ni-Cd batteries.

5) Use charging systems that monitor, control, and balance the charge state of each cell in the pack. Unbalanced cells can lead to disaster if the system permits a single cell in the pack to be overcharged. This means that the charging system must provide charge cessation as each cell reaches the proper voltage.
If the batteries show any sign of swelling, discontinue charging and move them to a safe place—outside. They could erupt into flames.

6) Never plug in a battery and leave it to charge unattended; serious fires have resulted from this practice.

7) Do not attempt to make your own battery packs from individual cells. Use only professionally packaged and labeled units which contain safer charging features.
Lithium batteries cannot be handled and charged casually, as has been the practice for years with other types of batteries. The consequences can be serious, resulting in major property damage and/or personal harm.

—AMA Safety Committee

Permission for Reprinting or Posting the Emergency Safety Alert granted by The Academy of Model Aeronautics.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/lithsafety.asp
Old 12-17-2005, 12:16 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

Is the AMA just now figuring this out?? I've heard about the possiblility of LiPoly pack fires for quite a while now, mostly from the manufacturers, for way over a year. If the AMA is just now getting around to putting out this advisory, they are a little behind the power curve. Good that you posted it here, though.

Sorry, I meant to say LiPoly and not LIon packs... Its been corrected.
Old 12-17-2005, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

The risks of Li-Poly batteries has been documented over and over. However, I am not aware of problems associated with the Lithium Ion technology. Not saying the problems don't exist, just not aware of them. This assumes proper chargers being used.

My own experience is that with the Li-Poly batteries, flat batteries covered with foil type material, generally used in electric powered aircraft, that removal from the plane for charging and paying attention to the batteries while charging is warranted.

The lithium ion technolgy, (batteries look similar to a AA), is much more stable, and should not generate the same level of fear that people seem to have with the Li-poly batteries. We routinely charge lithium ion batteries in the plane and in fact have one set that went through a disasterious crash without incident.

The AMA bulletin which has been out for quite some time, speaks of the problems with Li-Poly batteries but then groups all lithium technolgy together.

I would like to hear about others' experience with lithium ion batteries.
Old 12-17-2005, 12:52 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)


ORIGINAL: mwick

The risks of Li-Poly batteries has been documented over and over. However, I am not aware of problems associated with the Lithium Ion technology. Not saying the problems don't exist, just not aware of them. This assumes proper chargers being used.

//snip//
I would like to hear about others' experience with lithium ion batteries.

Bought 3 packs and a charger shortly after they first appeared on model market. It was before I moved and I moved here 5 years ago next month. 2 packs are still fine. The 3rd pack was dumbed out of service.
One of my Ni-Cad packs went down, The Li-ion pack was in a machine under repairs. I placed it into the flyable airplane. After a few days, I forgot about the swap and hooked it up to the wall-wart to charge. BAD CHOICE, but no problem other than I killed the 1800mah pack. Can't blame the batt. for a dumb-***** operator. [:@]

While I still have a number of good Ni-Cad and NMH batts. I have not ordered more Li-Ion, however I may when the need arises. The Li-Ion charger I had also flew west (died) but I have the Accu-Cycle Elite and it is doing the job with my 2, 800 mah Li-Ion packs which still work. I do like their retaining a charge for a loonng time.

I don't do Li-Poly. Some in the club do. One guy having switched over to Electrics for Pattern, suddenly had a handful of fire after a "Hard-Landing" off runway and was bringing back a rather damaged fuselage. [X(] Too much work to have to be so careful.
Old 12-17-2005, 02:10 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

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Old 12-17-2005, 03:21 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

More likely the AMA decided to run this bulletin just before Christmas as a warning to all the new flyers that are getting electric planes and helis for Christmas. Many new flyers are probably not as well versed in the issue as the members of this forum.

Not sure it qualifies as an "emergency" however.

Brad
Old 12-17-2005, 03:53 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

One of the members of our club burned down his garage about a year go and did about $40,000 in damage.

And yes, the AMA covered this a couple of times a couple of years ago. Just shows that you need to read the entire AMA magazine, thoroughly.

3dbob
Old 12-17-2005, 05:53 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

Perhaps "JR" as Moderator of this forum can explain why he - as the poster - decided to post this well known alert that has been out for a considerable time and is even included with any LiPo batteries that one gets from Tower, etc.

I can understand posting information about these batteries from time-to-time, but to do so under the title "Emergency Safety Alert..." is most inapporpriate as the information is not new - which is a definition of an emergency in my mind - and therefore seems to fall into the same category as someone in a crowded theater yelling fire. Yes, there's free speech, but with it comes the responibility to not cause angst to others.

The information should better have been labeled as "Safety Reminder...".
Old 12-17-2005, 06:51 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

ORIGINAL: JLNewc

Perhaps "JR" as Moderator of this forum can explain why he - as the poster - decided to post this well known alert that has been out for a considerable time and is even included with any LiPo batteries that one gets from Tower, etc.

I can understand posting information about these batteries from time-to-time, but to do so under the title "Emergency Safety Alert..." is most inapporpriate as the information is not new - which is a definition of an emergency in my mind - and therefore seems to fall into the same category as someone in a crowded theater yelling fire. Yes, there's free speech, but with it comes the responibility to not cause angst to others.

The information should better have been labeled as "Safety Reminder...".
JLNewc-

That "JR" character is the worst moderator in this forum. It's about time somebody called him down, so good on you. Maybe you can get him 86ed by letting the site owner know about his uncouth behavior. [>:]

Abel
Old 12-17-2005, 07:24 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

ORIGINAL: JLNewc

Perhaps "JR" as Moderator of this forum can explain why he - as the poster - decided to post this well known alert that has been out for a considerable time and is even included with any LiPo batteries that one gets from Tower, etc.

I can understand posting information about these batteries from time-to-time, but to do so under the title "Emergency Safety Alert..." is most inapporpriate as the information is not new - which is a definition of an emergency in my mind - and therefore seems to fall into the same category as someone in a crowded theater yelling fire. Yes, there's free speech, but with it comes the responibility to not cause angst to others.

The information should better have been labeled as "Safety Reminder...".
If you were not too lazy to follow the link posted you would find that I posted the alert exactly as it appears, including the title.

Lazy people like you are the reason I bother to post at all. At least you may get the information somewhere.

edit: If you don't like the content, that is another matter, but, as with the title, I did not create that either.
Old 12-17-2005, 07:46 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

ORIGINAL: J_R

ORIGINAL: JLNewc

Perhaps "JR" as Moderator of this forum can explain why he - as the poster - decided to post this well known alert that has been out for a considerable time and is even included with any LiPo batteries that one gets from Tower, etc.

I can understand posting information about these batteries from time-to-time, but to do so under the title "Emergency Safety Alert..." is most inapporpriate as the information is not new - which is a definition of an emergency in my mind - and therefore seems to fall into the same category as someone in a crowded theater yelling fire. Yes, there's free speech, but with it comes the responibility to not cause angst to others.

The information should better have been labeled as "Safety Reminder...".
If you were not too lazy to follow the link posted you would find that I posted the alert exactly as it appears, including the title.

Lazy people like you are the reason I bother to post at all. At least you may get the information somewhere.

edit: If you don't like the content, that is another matter, but, as with the title, I did not create that either.
"JR" -

Just like you to try and weasel out like this. I got a backchannel msg from a reliable source telling just how much you moderatees make. It will serve you right when you get canned and have to explain to your little "side dish" why her beemer got reposessed.

Abel
Old 12-17-2005, 07:50 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

Abel

I have to admit to a mood swing after reading your expose.

Merry Christmas
Old 12-17-2005, 08:26 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

ORIGINAL: J_R

Abel

I have to admit to a mood swing after reading your expose.

Merry Christmas
Well that's better. then.

'Tis the Season of The Clapper and Chia Pets, after all.

Abel
Old 12-17-2005, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)


Hmm...

For Christmas this year I am hoping for a lump of coal as it would be a big improvement over things around my world right now. Any way before I get overwhelmed by events and forget, to both of you a Merry Christmas

Oh yeah, and the same to the rest of you....
Old 12-17-2005, 09:17 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

hope ya get through yer trials and tribulations ok, jim.

oh yeah, and "top o' de season" to you and everyone else.
Old 12-18-2005, 01:38 AM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

J_R has never been a moderator of this forum or any other one for that matter and J_R you state that you didn't create the title, bullpuckies! You have to go into your profile and manually change your custom title from the one the system gives you.

edit: If you don't like the content, that is another matter, but, as with the title, I did not create that either.
Old 12-18-2005, 09:39 AM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)


ORIGINAL: GrnBrt

J_R has never been a moderator of this forum...J_R you state that you didn't create the title, bullpuckies!

Yea JR... Take that![sm=spinnyeyes.gif]
Old 12-18-2005, 10:16 AM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

ORIGINAL: GrnBrt

J_R has never been a moderator of this forum or any other one for that matter and J_R you state that you didn't create the title, bullpuckies! You have to go into your profile and manually change your custom title from the one the system gives you.

edit: If you don't like the content, that is another matter, but, as with the title, I did not create that either.
Art

Are you no longer reading what is written either? The title of the thread... that was the subjet of JLWnecs post, was it not?

Anyone that thinks I have been a moderator on RCU has not been paying attention. Moderatee, yes, moderator, no way.

An apology will do, unless, of course, you can explain how following the link I posted relates to the discussion in some other way.

edit: just so you have no problem finding the area of contention

ORIGINAL: JLNewc

Perhaps "JR" as Moderator of this forum can explain why he - as the poster - decided to post this well known alert that has been out for a considerable time and is even included with any LiPo batteries that one gets from Tower, etc.

I can understand posting information about these batteries from time-to-time, but to do so under the title "Emergency Safety Alert..." is most inapporpriate as the information is not new - which is a definition of an emergency in my mind - and therefore seems to fall into the same category as someone in a crowded theater yelling fire. Yes, there's free speech, but with it comes the responibility to not cause angst to others.

The information should better have been labeled as "Safety Reminder...".
Old 12-18-2005, 10:52 AM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

Ya'll have a nice day now, and Merry Christmas.[:'(]
Old 12-18-2005, 11:28 AM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)


Like, missing the AMA warning concerning LiPo fire issues. Published about a year ago.

Like, missing the most recent AMA warning concerning LiPo fire issues, published on the AMA web site Dec 16 2005.

That would be the alert JR passed along when he started this thread.
Old 12-18-2005, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

anybody who has or had problems with li-pos is a dummy!unless you have bought junk packs and chargers from eb-y you should get a warning with the packs and a full set of instructions with the charger,if people have had problems then it is their fault,plain and simple!i have very expensive packs and a very expensive charger,i am quite happy to leave the house whilst i am charging them,thats how confident i am with my set up.
Old 12-18-2005, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

It's interesting how J_R's attempt to inform everyone results in banter and name calling. I'm relatively new to RC and wasn't aware of the danger. Am I ignorant? Not anymore thanks to this post! I'm also no longer ignorant about how rude and inconsiderate everyone else is either.
Old 12-18-2005, 01:54 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)


ORIGINAL: bigchap
anybody who has or had problems with li-pos is a dummy!unless you have bought junk packs and chargers from eb-y you should get a warning with the packs and a full set of instructions with the charger,if people have had problems then it is their fault,plain and simple!i have very expensive packs and a very expensive charger,i am quite happy to leave the house whilst i am charging them,thats how confident i am with my set up.

Every time someone gets in the auto to drive somewhere, that someone is CONFIDENT that they will safely return. Far too many do not, and not always because of being a dummy, but because there are other dummies out there that do stupid things. There are also those situations that JUST HAPPEN and no one is really a dummy.

I have not even the slightest Li-Po knowledge to justify judging the user of a Li-Poly battery, yet I know they are widely used, and will continue to be so by the square. However accidents do happen, and just rightfully so, maybe the AMA does recognize this situation and hopefully they just may save someone's person or property by informing that someone and creating an awareness in that person. Is it NOT worth the effort to do so? I support their effort. Overconfidence is a real killer in the world of aviation.

Now I was going to post that AMA announcement here, however JR beat me to it. Unfortunately the real moderators of RCU will push something like that to this seldom read (comparatively to such as Clubhouse) forum if AMA is mentioned. Therefore the real distribution of alertness is, IMO, sorely restricted. OTOH AMA and JR both are, IMO, doing the best they can to provide some distribution of an important message at an important time.
Old 12-18-2005, 02:37 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)


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Old 12-18-2005, 03:01 PM
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Default RE: Emergency Safety Alert: Lithium Battery Fires (12/16/05)

OK Folks,

Since Art is out for a little while I and another person are filling in for him.

We are asking that everyone follow the rules of posting. If you need to remind yourselves what they are, here is a link to them

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_377662/tm.htm

Flaming bashing name calling and the like will get the post edited. We are all adults here and we should be debating like adults.

So I encourage everyone to try to get along and lets make it easy for everyone to come into this forum and get the information they need

Thanks

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