Where the AMA needs to improve
11-16-2002 | 09:07 PM
#1
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From: Del Norte,
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Where the AMA needs to improve
One thing I think the AMA is blowing is it's responsibility to match new modelers up with experienced flyers.
For a while now, I have been counselling new flyers over the internet to join AMA and...
" Once you start getting your AMA magazine, find out who your local VP's or Assistant VP's are (they are listed in the back of the magazine) and call them to find someone in your area to help you."
Apparently this doesn't work very well. AMA needs to keep and maintain a list of experienced flyers who are willing to act as mentors for new members. This list could be managed by zip code or perhaps a larger geographical area. New AMA members should be able to call, or email AMA HQ and say "I live in Palookaville and I cant find a club near me, can you give me the name of a flyer in the Palookaville area that would be willing to help me get started?"
The list of sanctioned clubs is not adequate for this, although it is a starting point. There are many excellent instructors out there who would be happy to help new flyers in their area, but are either not members of sanctioned club, or are not interested in participating in the politics of their clubs and are therefore not listed as AMA instructor pilots. Also there are many modelers who don't fly much but are still quite willing to help new flyers find their way, and even a novice sport flyer can be a great help to someone who is just getting started.
Renewing AMA numbers should be asked, via check box on their renewal slip, if they are willing to have the AMA release their name and contact information to new flyers, and new members should have the option of asking the AMA to send them a "new member kit" that would contain beginner information and a contact list of modelers in their area.
For a while now, I have been counselling new flyers over the internet to join AMA and...
" Once you start getting your AMA magazine, find out who your local VP's or Assistant VP's are (they are listed in the back of the magazine) and call them to find someone in your area to help you."
Apparently this doesn't work very well. AMA needs to keep and maintain a list of experienced flyers who are willing to act as mentors for new members. This list could be managed by zip code or perhaps a larger geographical area. New AMA members should be able to call, or email AMA HQ and say "I live in Palookaville and I cant find a club near me, can you give me the name of a flyer in the Palookaville area that would be willing to help me get started?"
The list of sanctioned clubs is not adequate for this, although it is a starting point. There are many excellent instructors out there who would be happy to help new flyers in their area, but are either not members of sanctioned club, or are not interested in participating in the politics of their clubs and are therefore not listed as AMA instructor pilots. Also there are many modelers who don't fly much but are still quite willing to help new flyers find their way, and even a novice sport flyer can be a great help to someone who is just getting started.
Renewing AMA numbers should be asked, via check box on their renewal slip, if they are willing to have the AMA release their name and contact information to new flyers, and new members should have the option of asking the AMA to send them a "new member kit" that would contain beginner information and a contact list of modelers in their area.
11-16-2002 | 11:26 PM
#2
Where the AMA needs to improve
Good ideas, in fact, both UMA and AMA already has a list that everyone is free to add their names and information. The AMA list was intended to be for volunteers and not just commercial instructors.
http://modelaircraft.org/templates/a...B784E8913B2190
http://www.unitedmodelers.com/learn%20to%20fly.htm
Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors
http://modelaircraft.org/templates/a...B784E8913B2190
http://www.unitedmodelers.com/learn%20to%20fly.htm
Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors
11-17-2002 | 01:15 AM
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From: Hagerstown,
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Where the AMA needs to improve
Christopher you have a good idea here
I know this does not work well in every case but your LHS should be a source of information for new modelers. Also the local clubs can help with mall shows and public awareness days with lots of advertisements. There are lots of activities clubs can do to draw attention to our hobby.
Victor
I know this does not work well in every case but your LHS should be a source of information for new modelers. Also the local clubs can help with mall shows and public awareness days with lots of advertisements. There are lots of activities clubs can do to draw attention to our hobby.
Victor
11-17-2002 | 03:07 AM
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From: Corona, CA,
Where the AMA needs to improve
ctdahle
I think that the major reason that the Introductory Pilot Program is not as effective as it could be is the reporting requirements. It is described as :
"This program allows a non-AMA member to fly at a club field and be AMA insured for liability coverage provided the new flier is under the supervision of a chartered club designated Introductory Pilot. The designated Introductory Pilot must be an adult AMA member and have paid a $5 Administrative Fee. Individuals who are designated as Introductory Pilots must keep records of every activity involving non-AMA members, including ground instruction and flying lessons. "
ctdhale, the reporting requirements are pretty extensive. You have to remember, this program deals with those that are NOT AMA members and thus have only the insurance that the program includes to protect the club, the landlord and others at the field. It thus falls on the trainer to protect the AMA, and all of us with good reporting. I don't think club politics has anything to do with it. Most AMA members simply are not willing to do the paperwork necessary and submit it to the AMA, after examining the program closely. There are some clubs that support the program well.
Bill Lee, AVP and web master for District VIII has, within the last few days, put up a utility on the D8 website to help folks find the local clubs within D8. As he works out the bugs, I am sure he will extend it to all of the AMA, as he has done with his AMA number verification program. In the meantime some problems have arisen. Some clubs do not update their contact person and the ones on the AMA list are out of date. There is no easy mechanism for a contact person to change an address, e-mail address or phone number on the AMA site. That coupled with the fact that the locator must operate by zip code, at this point, means that what is actually being located is the contact person. This person may live 10's of miles from the club field, giving the searcher a false impression. Better rechartering paperwork by the clubs may take care of some of this. The potential of using GPS coordinates is a possibility as well.
The AMA can not give information or directions correctly unless the clubs make it available to them. Simply having a check box on a renewal is not enough. There must be a way to keep it current. Of course, privacy on the Internet or even over the phone to AMA is an issue that has to be addressed as well. Just as you do not use your full name and address here, I doubt that a volunteer wants to subject himself to potential attacks by placing personal information in the public domain.
The list that Fliers1 pointed to contains about 20 commercial trainers. As he said, it was not designed for them only, but, no one else is stepping up and asking the AMA to add their name.
Most clubs have some individuals what will help the newbie, as you pointed out. The newbie is going to have to expend the effort to find the club. Hopefully, soon, Bill Lee's utility will provide a better way to do that.
I feel it is the responsibility of the clubs to help the beginner, not the AMA. The chartered club is the backbone of the entire organization. The LHS should be able to point his customers to the club. In return, you can feel certain that the club will be looking for a raffle prize donation. The LHS and the club are dependent on each other. The type and timing of training are a separate issue and I am sure fliers1 would be happy to expound on that if you ask him.
JR
I think that the major reason that the Introductory Pilot Program is not as effective as it could be is the reporting requirements. It is described as :
"This program allows a non-AMA member to fly at a club field and be AMA insured for liability coverage provided the new flier is under the supervision of a chartered club designated Introductory Pilot. The designated Introductory Pilot must be an adult AMA member and have paid a $5 Administrative Fee. Individuals who are designated as Introductory Pilots must keep records of every activity involving non-AMA members, including ground instruction and flying lessons. "
ctdhale, the reporting requirements are pretty extensive. You have to remember, this program deals with those that are NOT AMA members and thus have only the insurance that the program includes to protect the club, the landlord and others at the field. It thus falls on the trainer to protect the AMA, and all of us with good reporting. I don't think club politics has anything to do with it. Most AMA members simply are not willing to do the paperwork necessary and submit it to the AMA, after examining the program closely. There are some clubs that support the program well.
Bill Lee, AVP and web master for District VIII has, within the last few days, put up a utility on the D8 website to help folks find the local clubs within D8. As he works out the bugs, I am sure he will extend it to all of the AMA, as he has done with his AMA number verification program. In the meantime some problems have arisen. Some clubs do not update their contact person and the ones on the AMA list are out of date. There is no easy mechanism for a contact person to change an address, e-mail address or phone number on the AMA site. That coupled with the fact that the locator must operate by zip code, at this point, means that what is actually being located is the contact person. This person may live 10's of miles from the club field, giving the searcher a false impression. Better rechartering paperwork by the clubs may take care of some of this. The potential of using GPS coordinates is a possibility as well.
The AMA can not give information or directions correctly unless the clubs make it available to them. Simply having a check box on a renewal is not enough. There must be a way to keep it current. Of course, privacy on the Internet or even over the phone to AMA is an issue that has to be addressed as well. Just as you do not use your full name and address here, I doubt that a volunteer wants to subject himself to potential attacks by placing personal information in the public domain.
The list that Fliers1 pointed to contains about 20 commercial trainers. As he said, it was not designed for them only, but, no one else is stepping up and asking the AMA to add their name.
Most clubs have some individuals what will help the newbie, as you pointed out. The newbie is going to have to expend the effort to find the club. Hopefully, soon, Bill Lee's utility will provide a better way to do that.
I feel it is the responsibility of the clubs to help the beginner, not the AMA. The chartered club is the backbone of the entire organization. The LHS should be able to point his customers to the club. In return, you can feel certain that the club will be looking for a raffle prize donation. The LHS and the club are dependent on each other. The type and timing of training are a separate issue and I am sure fliers1 would be happy to expound on that if you ask him.
JR
11-17-2002 | 06:51 AM
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From: Del Norte,
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Where the AMA needs to improve
JR, besides throwing up a bunch of straw men to tell me why this idea won't work, you head off on a flyer about the introductory pilot program that is entirely beside the point. Re-read the friggin' post. The thrust is contained in the last paragraph, to wit:
Renewing AMA numbers should be asked, via check box on their renewal slip, if they are willing to have the AMA release their name and contact information to new flyers, and new members should have the option of asking the AMA to send them a "new member kit" that would contain beginner information and a contact list of modelers in their area.
The "anybody can be on it" list on the AMA website is wholly ineffective and not something in which most flyers are going to be interested in participating. For one thing I am NOT talking about publishing a list for the perusal of every whack job, porn purveyor and pedophile on the internet. To the contrary, the list would be available ONLY to new members who specifically requested it, and it would only contain a limited number of mentor members within a limited geographical area in proximity to the new member's home.
Your protest that it would be too hard to keep the list current is nonsense. The list would only be made up from RENEWING members who specifically checked the "yes" box on their renewal form annually. By definition a renewing member is providing CURRENT contact information annually. Once AMA puts an appropriate check box on the form, the computer can do the work of sorting the list by geographical area and updating both the names and the contact information annually. It is an embarrasingly simple data processing task.
Your red herring about the zip code being an inaccurate proximity indicator is equally bogus. Someone who lives in my zipcode is probably going to fly at the field closest to himself and therefore, closest to me and if it happens to be "tens of miles away" well SO WHAT? MANY of us have to drive "tens of miles" to reach the nearest flying field. Suggesting that the GPS coordinates of a sanctioned flying field have the slightest bearing on connecting a new flyer with a mentor is, at best, silly.
Third, the idea that clubs should do more to promote the hobby, while entirely TRUE, misses the point entirely. The AMA is the ONLY national contact point that CAN quickly, and cheaply put a new flyer in contact with a mentor whether the mentor is a member of a chartered club or NOT.
Fourth, while the LHS was the obvious first point of contact 20 years ago, today vast areas of the country do not have anything like a LOCAL hobby shop. Having lived and flown in FIVE states, and visited flying sites throughout the Trans-Mississippi west I speak from personal experience. For many of us the only local hobby shop is a Michael's or a Hobby Lobby and I don't mean the one in Brentwood.
Fifth, for many people there is no local sanctioned club. Only one of the three clubs within driving distance of my home is sanctioned, and the one I fly with is NOT. Contrary to the opinions expressed on the board, there are MANY unsanctioned clubs where skilled AMA members fly. If the AMA would take the lead in referring new flyers to AMA member mentors, then those of us who see the value of AMA membership might well be more succesful in arguing that our clubs should be AMA sanctioned.
As far as needing the advice of fliers1 (hi Clarence!) in setting up training programs, Mr. Ragland and I have corresponded for several years now. His ideas are ones that could well have saved a number of small LHS's from failure, but the LHS is following the passenger pigeon. The number of truly well stocked and managed local hobby shops nation-wide can be counted with three digit numbers. This leaves a huge number of modelers who are served ONLY by the brown model airplane truck, and while that is unfortunate, it does us no good to cry in our beer in lament of the passing of the LHS.
The bottom line is that the AMA has the means to cheaply determine if current, individual AMA members are willing to mentor new AMA members. They have the ability to cheaply put new members in contact with veteran AMA members who are willing to serve as mentors. By doing so, the AMA would enhance the value of AMA membership, further it's educational and promotional mission, and help avoid frustration and failure for many new flyers.
Renewing AMA numbers should be asked, via check box on their renewal slip, if they are willing to have the AMA release their name and contact information to new flyers, and new members should have the option of asking the AMA to send them a "new member kit" that would contain beginner information and a contact list of modelers in their area.
The "anybody can be on it" list on the AMA website is wholly ineffective and not something in which most flyers are going to be interested in participating. For one thing I am NOT talking about publishing a list for the perusal of every whack job, porn purveyor and pedophile on the internet. To the contrary, the list would be available ONLY to new members who specifically requested it, and it would only contain a limited number of mentor members within a limited geographical area in proximity to the new member's home.
Your protest that it would be too hard to keep the list current is nonsense. The list would only be made up from RENEWING members who specifically checked the "yes" box on their renewal form annually. By definition a renewing member is providing CURRENT contact information annually. Once AMA puts an appropriate check box on the form, the computer can do the work of sorting the list by geographical area and updating both the names and the contact information annually. It is an embarrasingly simple data processing task.
Your red herring about the zip code being an inaccurate proximity indicator is equally bogus. Someone who lives in my zipcode is probably going to fly at the field closest to himself and therefore, closest to me and if it happens to be "tens of miles away" well SO WHAT? MANY of us have to drive "tens of miles" to reach the nearest flying field. Suggesting that the GPS coordinates of a sanctioned flying field have the slightest bearing on connecting a new flyer with a mentor is, at best, silly.
Third, the idea that clubs should do more to promote the hobby, while entirely TRUE, misses the point entirely. The AMA is the ONLY national contact point that CAN quickly, and cheaply put a new flyer in contact with a mentor whether the mentor is a member of a chartered club or NOT.
Fourth, while the LHS was the obvious first point of contact 20 years ago, today vast areas of the country do not have anything like a LOCAL hobby shop. Having lived and flown in FIVE states, and visited flying sites throughout the Trans-Mississippi west I speak from personal experience. For many of us the only local hobby shop is a Michael's or a Hobby Lobby and I don't mean the one in Brentwood.
Fifth, for many people there is no local sanctioned club. Only one of the three clubs within driving distance of my home is sanctioned, and the one I fly with is NOT. Contrary to the opinions expressed on the board, there are MANY unsanctioned clubs where skilled AMA members fly. If the AMA would take the lead in referring new flyers to AMA member mentors, then those of us who see the value of AMA membership might well be more succesful in arguing that our clubs should be AMA sanctioned.
As far as needing the advice of fliers1 (hi Clarence!) in setting up training programs, Mr. Ragland and I have corresponded for several years now. His ideas are ones that could well have saved a number of small LHS's from failure, but the LHS is following the passenger pigeon. The number of truly well stocked and managed local hobby shops nation-wide can be counted with three digit numbers. This leaves a huge number of modelers who are served ONLY by the brown model airplane truck, and while that is unfortunate, it does us no good to cry in our beer in lament of the passing of the LHS.
The bottom line is that the AMA has the means to cheaply determine if current, individual AMA members are willing to mentor new AMA members. They have the ability to cheaply put new members in contact with veteran AMA members who are willing to serve as mentors. By doing so, the AMA would enhance the value of AMA membership, further it's educational and promotional mission, and help avoid frustration and failure for many new flyers.
11-17-2002 | 07:48 AM
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From: Corona, CA,
Where the AMA needs to improve
ctdahle
Take a look at a real world situation that just occurred. On your renewal, there is a box for your e-mail address. During the recent issue at Torrey Pines, the AMA e-mailed it's members in an effort to garner support. The results have been described as dismal. Not because of the response, but, because of the number of bounced e-mails to the membership. If that is typical of the results a new AMA member would receive in looking for a mentor, it might very well be frustrating, at best. That would seem to be a pretty fair comparison to your suggestion of having a check box.
Just how many people do you project would sign up for the program you outline?
You stated 'cheaply'. How much is cheaply? How much for postage? How much for copies, and/or printing? For computing time and equipment. Purportedly, the AMA has an election that does not include a run-off to save on printing and postage. How many people would be required at HQ to support your suggested program and what would we have to pay them? To run the search in their area and print it? To process that little check box and enter it into the data stream? What is the cost of your suggestion? It's easy to say 'cheaply'. Support it. $100, $1000? $10,000, $100,000? What other services would you cut to implement this program? The HQ staff is overworked now and they rarely go home on time. It's easy to use generalities, be specific.
Keep in mind that there are charges now, to memebers, to receive hard copies of the audit, old EC minutes, old MA articles, etc. How much were you going to charge for this service, which might or might not create a match for the newcomer?
Please do not misunderstand. I am not against finding trainers for new AMA members. It just seems to me that if the AMA can point them to a club, they will have a better chance of success in finding one, inexpensively. The club locater is going into place now at no cost to the AMA that I am aware of. Since about 80% of the AMA members are members of clubs, either chartered or unchartered, that would seem to be the logical way to do it, I don't see any reason that unchartered clubs could not be listed.
Why spend money if the desired results can be obtained free?
The demise of the LHS is one of those item that when you point a finger, you must realize that three fingers are pointing back at yourself (in this case, yourself is the modeler and not you personally). In my neck of the woods we still have several hobby shops.
JR
Take a look at a real world situation that just occurred. On your renewal, there is a box for your e-mail address. During the recent issue at Torrey Pines, the AMA e-mailed it's members in an effort to garner support. The results have been described as dismal. Not because of the response, but, because of the number of bounced e-mails to the membership. If that is typical of the results a new AMA member would receive in looking for a mentor, it might very well be frustrating, at best. That would seem to be a pretty fair comparison to your suggestion of having a check box.
Just how many people do you project would sign up for the program you outline?
You stated 'cheaply'. How much is cheaply? How much for postage? How much for copies, and/or printing? For computing time and equipment. Purportedly, the AMA has an election that does not include a run-off to save on printing and postage. How many people would be required at HQ to support your suggested program and what would we have to pay them? To run the search in their area and print it? To process that little check box and enter it into the data stream? What is the cost of your suggestion? It's easy to say 'cheaply'. Support it. $100, $1000? $10,000, $100,000? What other services would you cut to implement this program? The HQ staff is overworked now and they rarely go home on time. It's easy to use generalities, be specific.
Keep in mind that there are charges now, to memebers, to receive hard copies of the audit, old EC minutes, old MA articles, etc. How much were you going to charge for this service, which might or might not create a match for the newcomer?
Please do not misunderstand. I am not against finding trainers for new AMA members. It just seems to me that if the AMA can point them to a club, they will have a better chance of success in finding one, inexpensively. The club locater is going into place now at no cost to the AMA that I am aware of. Since about 80% of the AMA members are members of clubs, either chartered or unchartered, that would seem to be the logical way to do it, I don't see any reason that unchartered clubs could not be listed.
Why spend money if the desired results can be obtained free?
The demise of the LHS is one of those item that when you point a finger, you must realize that three fingers are pointing back at yourself (in this case, yourself is the modeler and not you personally). In my neck of the woods we still have several hobby shops.
JR
11-17-2002 | 12:58 PM
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From: Chandler,
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Where the AMA needs to improve
Originally posted by J_R
.........<snip>
Bill Lee, AVP and web master for District VIII has, within the last few days, put up a utility on the D8 website to help folks find the local clubs within D8. As he works out the bugs, I am sure he will extend it to all of the AMA, as he has done with his AMA number verification program. In the meantime some problems have arisen. Some clubs do not update their contact person and the ones on the AMA list are out of date. There is no easy mechanism for a contact person to change an address, e-mail address or phone number on the AMA site. That coupled with the fact that the locator must operate by zip code, at this point, means that what is actually being located is the contact person. This person may live 10's of miles from the club field, giving the searcher a false impression. Better rechartering paperwork by the clubs may take care of some of this. The potential of using GPS coordinates is a possibility as well.
........<snip>
JR
.........<snip>
Bill Lee, AVP and web master for District VIII has, within the last few days, put up a utility on the D8 website to help folks find the local clubs within D8. As he works out the bugs, I am sure he will extend it to all of the AMA, as he has done with his AMA number verification program. In the meantime some problems have arisen. Some clubs do not update their contact person and the ones on the AMA list are out of date. There is no easy mechanism for a contact person to change an address, e-mail address or phone number on the AMA site. That coupled with the fact that the locator must operate by zip code, at this point, means that what is actually being located is the contact person. This person may live 10's of miles from the club field, giving the searcher a false impression. Better rechartering paperwork by the clubs may take care of some of this. The potential of using GPS coordinates is a possibility as well.
........<snip>
JR
However, when a club is located, it is the Club Contact and all other pertinent information available which is listed.
As to the "Mentoring" program: I think this is a fantastic idea! The operation could be as simple as described by including a check-off box on the membership application, along with the "Interest" indication. The BIG kicker, however, is to fold anything such as this into the AMA's in-house computer system so that the data could be used. If that could be accomplished, a system very much like the one I use for the "Find a Club" could be employed with ease.
Now, since this forum MAY be monitored (but may NOT, too!) by AMA folks, perhaps they will see the suggestion. But I will forward it on in any case.
Regards,
Bill Lee
11-17-2002 | 04:31 PM
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From: Corona, CA,
Where the AMA needs to improve
Bill Lee
Sounds like you are refining the 'Find a Club' utility rapidly. That's great. We have needed this kind of thing for a long time. Is there any reason that you can see that unchartered clubs (i.e. city owned sites, etc.) could not be listed? As you know, from the recent e-mail from Dave Brown about the Axiom Survey, as many as 30% of the AMA membership may be in unchartered clubs.
IF the mentors could be included in the data. how would you purpose the contact between the newcomer and the mentor be made, if you built such a utility to 'Find a Mentor'? Would you make it available on the web site, or only to the HQ staff or ??
How could the privacy concern be dealt with?
I see that you agree that the BIG kicker is getting the information in. What do you think the costs of that might be? IF such an effort were to be made, would it make sense to solicit additional information from members to create a data base for additional functions? Maybe the SIG's belonged to or venue interests? It might be nice to know, for instance, who I can fly C/L with in my area.
Recently, Bill Vail made a recommendation that a data base be put together for crash information. His example was the JR 8411 servos that were failing in heli's. I think he submitted the idea to Sandy as a safety idea. How much would it cost to have some full time people to input the types of data and to manage them so that we could use computing power to help the organization on things like mentors, safety, SIG membership and whatever else might be really useful?
Keep up the good work, Bill.
JR
Sounds like you are refining the 'Find a Club' utility rapidly. That's great. We have needed this kind of thing for a long time. Is there any reason that you can see that unchartered clubs (i.e. city owned sites, etc.) could not be listed? As you know, from the recent e-mail from Dave Brown about the Axiom Survey, as many as 30% of the AMA membership may be in unchartered clubs.
IF the mentors could be included in the data. how would you purpose the contact between the newcomer and the mentor be made, if you built such a utility to 'Find a Mentor'? Would you make it available on the web site, or only to the HQ staff or ??
How could the privacy concern be dealt with?
I see that you agree that the BIG kicker is getting the information in. What do you think the costs of that might be? IF such an effort were to be made, would it make sense to solicit additional information from members to create a data base for additional functions? Maybe the SIG's belonged to or venue interests? It might be nice to know, for instance, who I can fly C/L with in my area.
Recently, Bill Vail made a recommendation that a data base be put together for crash information. His example was the JR 8411 servos that were failing in heli's. I think he submitted the idea to Sandy as a safety idea. How much would it cost to have some full time people to input the types of data and to manage them so that we could use computing power to help the organization on things like mentors, safety, SIG membership and whatever else might be really useful?
Keep up the good work, Bill.
JR
11-17-2002 | 05:03 PM
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Where the AMA needs to improve
For crying out loud JR, your abiliuty to take a simple idea and turn it into a complicated, unmanageable mess, and then cite those phoney complications as a basis for shooting down the idea, is unbeleivable.
This is simple:
The AMA ALREADY sends out a card every year that asks every renewing member some questions.
All they need to do is add two new check boxes to the application form to wit:
"X You may release my contact information to a new modeler seeking a mentor in my area"
and
"X Please provide me with a list of modelers who are willing to act as mentors in my area"
The same computer that prints up the membership cards can print a list of 5 or so prospective mentors on the bottom of the letter to which the renewal card is glued.
The list goes out on the same piece of paper that the card is on, in the same envelope as the card, the safety code, and the free decals, and uses the same stamp.
NO additional mailing cost, and no more than a few hundreths of a cent of additional ink for each renewal package.
A reasonably bright high school student can write the query language to generate the list and match names by zip code or city or whatever criteria you want.
Who knows, maybe if you help enough local modelers meet each other, they might do something really nuts...like start a hobby shop.
This is simple:
The AMA ALREADY sends out a card every year that asks every renewing member some questions.
All they need to do is add two new check boxes to the application form to wit:
"X You may release my contact information to a new modeler seeking a mentor in my area"
and
"X Please provide me with a list of modelers who are willing to act as mentors in my area"
The same computer that prints up the membership cards can print a list of 5 or so prospective mentors on the bottom of the letter to which the renewal card is glued.
The list goes out on the same piece of paper that the card is on, in the same envelope as the card, the safety code, and the free decals, and uses the same stamp.
NO additional mailing cost, and no more than a few hundreths of a cent of additional ink for each renewal package.
A reasonably bright high school student can write the query language to generate the list and match names by zip code or city or whatever criteria you want.
Who knows, maybe if you help enough local modelers meet each other, they might do something really nuts...like start a hobby shop.
11-17-2002 | 05:20 PM
#10
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
Where the AMA needs to improve
It's a reasonable proposal, why not write it up formally and send it to the AMA?
Joe Beshar did something similar. His idea was simply to make it OPTIONAL for seniors to take a discount, rather than automatically give it to them. A LOT of seniors are perfectly willing to pay the extra ten bucks, and AMA can use the cash. He proposed it, and it was accepted, and now the renewal form says "Seniors check this box if you want a $10 discount".
Joe Beshar did something similar. His idea was simply to make it OPTIONAL for seniors to take a discount, rather than automatically give it to them. A LOT of seniors are perfectly willing to pay the extra ten bucks, and AMA can use the cash. He proposed it, and it was accepted, and now the renewal form says "Seniors check this box if you want a $10 discount".
11-17-2002 | 06:37 PM
#11
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 112
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From: Chandler,
TX
Where the AMA needs to improve
Hi, JR;
I have already sent the idea on.
Perhaps the biggest problem that would have to be overcome is the idea that this would somehow be in competition with the Introductory Pilot program already run by AMA and the Chartered clubs. Some would suggest that the Intro Pilot program is a carrot to attract new members to a club and that this would somehow dilute that. I don't know.
Another big problem is that ANY program somehow "sponsored" by AMA brings with it the concern of liability! Even with this just being a MENTORING idea, sooner or later a mentor will crash a newby's airplane and then who is going to pick up the pieces.
And what happens when a MENTOR signed up through this program turns out to be a for-profit instructor? More insurance concerns.
And the beat goes on.
As to non-AMA clubs: as much as I as a modeler sympathize with that idea, it will be a cold day in H*ll when any AMA-sponsored/funded program includes the non-AMA elements in it. (Now, I am sure somebody will point out a counter example! :-) ) I stretch this a bit on the D-8 web site by including non-sanctioned events on the Calendar pages, even if not by a chartered club, but that's about as far as I would take it. (When SFA was alive, I was absolutely forbidden to list an event that was non-AMA!) I cannot imagine any approval being given to include non-AMA clubs in any AMA tool.
Giving this Mentoring some thought: I would probably have a tool like the Find a Club tool, but for the self-identified mentors. I would give back the absolute minimum of personal information, probably no more than their telephone number. Not even an e-mail address since this would provide an avenue for the spam vermin to harvest them.
Getting the place on the membership forms would not be any big deal. Capturing it in the inhouse databases IS! I really don't think it's just a question of how much it would cost, but rather anybody qualified to do it at all. Everybody at HQs has a VERY full plate and you're not going to bring in a summer intern or high school kid and turn them loose with the databases that are the heart of AMA. Still......it sure would be nice!
Capturing other data would also be very helpful, but every effort (e.g.., a crash data reporting mechanism) would have to be staffed to do. There isn't anybody just sitting around at HQs looking for work! As much as it would be a Real Good Thing, we would have to pay for the effort somehow, increased budget to cover, ..... Is this something that the SIGs should pick up rather than AMA?
I still think this is a very good idea, but the realities of cost, etc., just have to be considered. I have made the proposal to AMA leaders. It may go, it may not. We'll see.
Regards,
Bill Lee
I have already sent the idea on.
Perhaps the biggest problem that would have to be overcome is the idea that this would somehow be in competition with the Introductory Pilot program already run by AMA and the Chartered clubs. Some would suggest that the Intro Pilot program is a carrot to attract new members to a club and that this would somehow dilute that. I don't know.
Another big problem is that ANY program somehow "sponsored" by AMA brings with it the concern of liability! Even with this just being a MENTORING idea, sooner or later a mentor will crash a newby's airplane and then who is going to pick up the pieces.
And what happens when a MENTOR signed up through this program turns out to be a for-profit instructor? More insurance concerns.
And the beat goes on.
As to non-AMA clubs: as much as I as a modeler sympathize with that idea, it will be a cold day in H*ll when any AMA-sponsored/funded program includes the non-AMA elements in it. (Now, I am sure somebody will point out a counter example! :-) ) I stretch this a bit on the D-8 web site by including non-sanctioned events on the Calendar pages, even if not by a chartered club, but that's about as far as I would take it. (When SFA was alive, I was absolutely forbidden to list an event that was non-AMA!) I cannot imagine any approval being given to include non-AMA clubs in any AMA tool.
Giving this Mentoring some thought: I would probably have a tool like the Find a Club tool, but for the self-identified mentors. I would give back the absolute minimum of personal information, probably no more than their telephone number. Not even an e-mail address since this would provide an avenue for the spam vermin to harvest them.
Getting the place on the membership forms would not be any big deal. Capturing it in the inhouse databases IS! I really don't think it's just a question of how much it would cost, but rather anybody qualified to do it at all. Everybody at HQs has a VERY full plate and you're not going to bring in a summer intern or high school kid and turn them loose with the databases that are the heart of AMA. Still......it sure would be nice!
Capturing other data would also be very helpful, but every effort (e.g.., a crash data reporting mechanism) would have to be staffed to do. There isn't anybody just sitting around at HQs looking for work! As much as it would be a Real Good Thing, we would have to pay for the effort somehow, increased budget to cover, ..... Is this something that the SIGs should pick up rather than AMA?
I still think this is a very good idea, but the realities of cost, etc., just have to be considered. I have made the proposal to AMA leaders. It may go, it may not. We'll see.
Regards,
Bill Lee
Originally posted by J_R
Bill Lee
Sounds like you are refining the 'Find a Club' utility rapidly. That's great. We have needed this kind of thing for a long time. Is there any reason that you can see that unchartered clubs (i.e. city owned sites, etc.) could not be listed? As you know, from the recent e-mail from Dave Brown about the Axiom Survey, as many as 30% of the AMA membership may be in unchartered clubs.
IF the mentors could be included in the data. how would you purpose the contact between the newcomer and the mentor be made, if you built such a utility to 'Find a Mentor'? Would you make it available on the web site, or only to the HQ staff or ??
How could the privacy concern be dealt with?
I see that you agree that the BIG kicker is getting the information in. What do you think the costs of that might be? IF such an effort were to be made, would it make sense to solicit additional information from members to create a data base for additional functions? Maybe the SIG's belonged to or venue interests? It might be nice to know, for instance, who I can fly C/L with in my area.
Recently, Bill Vail made a recommendation that a data base be put together for crash information. His example was the JR 8411 servos that were failing in heli's. I think he submitted the idea to Sandy as a safety idea. How much would it cost to have some full time people to input the types of data and to manage them so that we could use computing power to help the organization on things like mentors, safety, SIG membership and whatever else might be really useful?
Keep up the good work, Bill.
JR
Bill Lee
Sounds like you are refining the 'Find a Club' utility rapidly. That's great. We have needed this kind of thing for a long time. Is there any reason that you can see that unchartered clubs (i.e. city owned sites, etc.) could not be listed? As you know, from the recent e-mail from Dave Brown about the Axiom Survey, as many as 30% of the AMA membership may be in unchartered clubs.
IF the mentors could be included in the data. how would you purpose the contact between the newcomer and the mentor be made, if you built such a utility to 'Find a Mentor'? Would you make it available on the web site, or only to the HQ staff or ??
How could the privacy concern be dealt with?
I see that you agree that the BIG kicker is getting the information in. What do you think the costs of that might be? IF such an effort were to be made, would it make sense to solicit additional information from members to create a data base for additional functions? Maybe the SIG's belonged to or venue interests? It might be nice to know, for instance, who I can fly C/L with in my area.
Recently, Bill Vail made a recommendation that a data base be put together for crash information. His example was the JR 8411 servos that were failing in heli's. I think he submitted the idea to Sandy as a safety idea. How much would it cost to have some full time people to input the types of data and to manage them so that we could use computing power to help the organization on things like mentors, safety, SIG membership and whatever else might be really useful?
Keep up the good work, Bill.
JR
11-17-2002 | 07:30 PM
#12
Where the AMA needs to improve
I sent in a suggestion to offer some incentives to recruit and train more beginnrs. Something akin to AMA's current Sign 3 and Fly Free Ambassador program. I was surprised how so many were not even aware of this program:
http://modelaircraft.org/templates/a...C04897CE91BCB6
The idea is to offer members free membership for every newbie they train to graduation. Clubs and AMA should be able to iron out all the details like they do for every program including the trubine waiver. that has proven successful. I am sure that someone will try their best to find warts in this or any other idea, but it would be great if they put as much energy in finding solutions to any problems.
Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors
http://modelaircraft.org/templates/a...C04897CE91BCB6
The idea is to offer members free membership for every newbie they train to graduation. Clubs and AMA should be able to iron out all the details like they do for every program including the trubine waiver. that has proven successful. I am sure that someone will try their best to find warts in this or any other idea, but it would be great if they put as much energy in finding solutions to any problems.
Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors
