Groundforce-RCU

My Feedback: (20)

Im am wondering.....if senior pilots can get a discount, I think it should be that the disabled(under 65 but still recieving SS) should get a discount as well. No offence to the retired, BUT us disabled people live on the same (if not less) limited income as well......Just a thought.

smokingcrater

How about the poor starving college student discount? I'm REALLY watching for that one!

To be honest, I think a rate based on what you fly would be the best. Fly the huge expensive 33%'s, pay more. Fly a park flyer, pay much less. This would also work out to giving people on a fixed income reduced rates, as they are much less likely to have several thousand invested in a monster plane.

flatspins

I would like to think that the 65+ discount is for those that belong but rarely fly. Several senior members at the club come out simply for the conversation and the comraderie. I'd rather see a discount for them than see them (and their knowledge) disappear from the hobby.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

That is a fine idea but it comes with a definite cost. Check with the AMA to find out what the average age of AMA members is and find out what percentage would be in the 'over 65' group. Recall that if we give them a discount, the funds have to come from the rest of us to maintain an even keel. That means yet another dues increase.

Groundforce-RCU

My Feedback: (20)

I know most at the club I fly with are 65+. The point im trying to make is give us on SSI the same break as well. In a sense, we are retired as well.......just not 65 yet.

Bill Vargas

My Feedback: (5)

>>> Join today! One year open membership: $58. Senior citizens are eligible for $10 discount. Junior Membership Special: $15 with magazine, $1 without magazine

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Vargas
[B]>>> Join today! One year open membership: $58. Senior citizens are eligible for $10 discount. Junior Membership Special: $15 with magazine, $1 without magazine

Groundforce-RCU

My Feedback: (20)

:stupid:

Live Wire

God bless the dollar$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Frankly, I'm tired of age discrimination. Make the 65+ crowd pay there way like everyone else. My only deviation is the discount for youngsters in order to get them involved, of course that should be more than $1.00.

sturmvogel

I agree with the position that cost of membership should be based upon what type of models you fly. The people flying 40% CAP's or turbines should obviously be charged more than a guy (or girl) flying a hand launched glider or park flyer. It just makes more sense to ask those that fly more potentially dangerous airplanes to put more on the table. If you're flying a 5 ounce Wakefield you don't present much of a danger to others that a 40 pound plane going over 100 mph does!!
Bob Peterson
AMA64630

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Bob,
This has been discussed many times in the past, especially by indoor guys complaining they have to pay the same as r/c modelers.
If you're going to do base the dues on risk, you need to go back and determine which class of models had the most claims. Since there are many more 40 sized models than 40# models, there's more exposure with the 40 size models, and therefore higher claims. They can injure and kill just as well as the large models.
Also, how do you handle someone who wants to move up to the next class (higher risk) models?
Jon

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Great idea if the AMA was an insurance company. But...it's NOT! The AMA is around to promote model aviation, the insurance happens to be a benefit of membership.

smokingcrater

here is an idea... ama membership that allows you to legally waive your insurance. (and the associated dues) Proof of adequate liability insurance would be required to receive the ama card. (homeowners/renters liability is MUCH cheaper per year. (just glanced at my policy dec sheet, currently $10 for $300,000 per 6 months)

kwizard

P-51 posts

"Great idea if the AMA was an insurance company. But...it's NOT! The AMA is around to promote model aviation, the insurance happens to be a benefit of membership"


Oh, so now I know, it's all that "Promoting of model aviation" that caused our dues to go up over 20% I can fell that big surge in membership coming, can you?

Matt Kirsch

My Feedback: (21)

Just because the plane is smaller doesn't mean that the medical bills will be smaller. You can destroy someone's vision with a 1oz indooor micro flier, and eyes are worth a lot of money.

Just because the plane is smaller doesn't mean that they won't sue you for 7 figures if something bad happens. If you took out my one good eye flying your 1oz micro flier like a sausage, I'd sue you for everything you had just the same as if you nailed me in the head with a 33% Extra (I have a very hard head, and I'd probably survive, but I wouldn't be worth much).

You can kill someone with a .15 size model just as easily as you can with a 33% Extra. You think the person's family is going to say, "It was a small plane, so I'm not going to sue you for as much?" Ha!

Sorry, but no matter what size plane you fly, you need at least the standard coverage provided by the AMA.

rkramer, the AMA gives you $1,000,000 in liability coverage. Ask your insurance agent how much that would cost you.

Besides, keeping track of who's insured and who's not would be an administrative nightmare if you were allowed to waive AMA insurance. At that point, why join the AMA at all? The main purposes for clubs requiring AMA membship are:

1. A convenient way to ensure that you're properly covered without having to hire a full-time accountant to keep track of everyone's insurance policies.
2. A portion of your AMA dues are used to help fund the Site Insurance program. So, you either pay the AMA directly for insurance on your flying site, or you'd have to pay the club.

J_R

The actual cost of insurace is about $10-$11. So, let's raise the amount paid by the bigger planes by $5 and cut the smaller ones by $5.

Now add about $5 for higher fees to administer the program for everyone.

Works for me.

JR

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Dreamer!

I wish this would work but I can see too many holes where it fails.

It might work for you until Elrod Electric normally found in the gym with his indoor electric plane shows up at your field with a brand new 35% Extra.

Or the other one, Barry Bigbird decides to sell his giant stuff and buy indoor electric.

Two issues blast this idea away. How do we enforce the segregation at the field without getting into physical means? And how can a member jump easily from one class to another.? I suspect that the administrative cost is more than double what you have allocated.

Further, Kirsch is right. That 8 ounce electric that pokes an eye out costs as much in the claim as the broken arm from a 33% Aerobatic bird.

No, about the only thing we can do is level for everyone.

xp8103

My Feedback: (16)

I think the AMA has set a minimum fee for flyers of ALL sorts. I think the AMA CAN and SHOULD charge perhaps a premium for those who fly planes with MORE potential to cause damage, i.e. giant scale and jets. In this way, they would be more in line with how dedicated insurance companies do it. The more expensive and high powered a vehicle you drive, the more your insurance costs. I think this makes sense.
Perhaps 1/4 scale (or 80" wing - 60 for bipes) is the cut off. The larger the plane the more the premium.
The AMA policy can be modified for those different levels of coverage and can clearly state that a pilot will not be covered in the event of an accident with a plane for which he or she is not properly covered. The AMA website can have a secure area where a member can, using his or her ama number and some other authentication, up the level of coverage should he or she desire to fly something larger. The minimum level of coverage is applied as the default when you renew your membership. The renewal form provides check boxes for the premium coverages.
Sounds pretty simple to me. Your AMA card will note the level of coverage you have.

Will some fliers try to find a loophole or screw the system. Yep, just like they are doing now.

But I think it is a sound idea. Opinions?

J_R

50% of the claims are generated for non-flying accidents.

In 2002 the cost of insurance for the commercial policy and the SIR was about $10-$11 per adult member.

If you agree that the non-flying claims (trip and fall type accidents) were not related to the size of the plane, what would mean that we are talking about somewhere in the $5-$5.50 range for insurance that could be indexed.

There would be some costs involved in administering a tiered program. Even the issuance of new cards when coverage changes generates costs.

If the minimum was set at $2/member and even $2 were added to administer the program, that would reduce the dues by $1.

The program would be a nightmare to administer at the club level as well.

In my opinion, $1 is simply not worth the hassle. On the other end, the dues of the higher risk flyer might increase a very few dollars. Anything taken to it's logical extreme is ridiculous. If the insurance cost were dropped entirely for the low risk flyer and there were no increase in administrative fees, we are talking about a savings to the member of $5. If insurance was $100 per member, you might have a point.

The bottom line is that we are not talking about enough money to make a difference and it would take additional resources to administer the program.

JR

Matt Kirsch

My Feedback: (21)

JB, brings up a good point: enforcement.

It would be up to the membership to enforce/police themselves, and you know as well as I that it ain't gonna happen. "Aw he11, just fly it. Who's it gonna hurt?" when the person insured for .40-.60 size planes decides to try a 1.20 size for a change. That leaves the pilot, the club, and the site owner completely uncovered!

How's the AMA gonna keep track? I put about six new planes in the air every year. All I can imagine is some sort of DMV-esque environment, where I have to mail in to get some sort of registration sticker for my planes before I can fly them. We want the AMA and the hobby/sport to GROW, not to discourage new people because of a prohibitive bureaucracy.

This is just ridiculous. I thought people hated government bureaucracy.

kwizard

If the AMA would use the Auto Industry as a Model, the new or youngest pilots, prone to the most accidents would pay more.

This rate would decrease as the years go by and the member supposedly had more flying experience.

Also, if you haven't had an insurance claim against you, your rates should be less than those who have.

On the other hand (the subject of this post), as one gets older, reflexes slow, eyesight is not as sharp and even though these drivers have had much more driving experience, some insurance companies have started raising rates for seniors, because they like younger folk are having more accidents. I'm not saying statistically this also applies to RC flying, only the AMA knows for sure. By the way, the 65+ crowd at our field are in general very safe pilots And I know I'll be there some day.

For liability insurance rates, the type of auto you drive, on the most part (SUV's being a recent exception), did not effect your liability insurance rates, but effected you COLISSION coverage.

How about this? Ask on the annual renewal application mentioned in a previous post, what type of craft you fly. This would not be for "liability" insurance adjustments, but for "collision and theft" coverage, ie., the AMA would adjust those damaged aircraft and stolen aircraft claims in accordance with what the member claims on his annual application? The less expensive the craft declared on the annual application, the less the limits of what the AMA pays out to the member for damaged or stolen aircraft. This would dicorrage the AMA member from "underestimating" the value of his aircraft in order to cheat of save on his insurance rates.

Well, I'll probably get a call from AARP about this, but what do you think?



Also, if a member has had a claim filed against him or her, then just like in the real world of insurance, his rates should go up.