I was reading my club rules and it said you cant go over than 400 feet high. How the heck are we suppose to know that??[X(] Can anyone give me some tips.

Steve
Thanx


Internet-$19.99 a month.......$ tv cable-30.00......girls-priceless...

WHOOOAAAAA!!!!! I just experienced deja-vu... I could swear I've read this post before.

o..wait did someone post this already?heheheh i didnt notice..

as I read this, the other 400' Heavens Name How thread was just 11 threads down from this one on the first page....

Its really very easy. If it is a club rule, you will have some members that probably have not flown since monokote was invented but can tell you when you are within 400 feet +/- 1 foot.

Zackly. 400' is very simple to determine. If you have a private pilot at your field he can tell you how high it is. It's 1/2 distance of pattern traffic.

Also you only need to be below 400' within 3 miles of an airport, for obvious reasons. If your field is not within 3 miles of an airport, fly as high as you want so long as not to interfere full scale planes.

HAHA Red!! Good one... and sadly... sooooo true....

Is this club rule based on the AMA rule or the FAA suggestion?

acelemist22- Paste in the club rule, cause there is a Comma in the AMA vs FAA we all know that makes a world of difference, and we need to see which version your club is using.

It is amazing how the 400 foot rule became the least understood and the favorite one to point out by the "over officiast jerk *" types who linger around at various club fields all across our great land.

* taken from Marv Leavy, football coach, while he was wired for sound during a NFL game.

To get acquainted with what your plane looks like at 400 feet, prop it up on a picnic table, then take about 140 man sized steps away, turn around and then take a good long look at it.

LETTER FROM BILL SORENSEN (EDSF CLUB PRESIDENT)

Last month our RC flying club was visited by the FAA at the request of Long Beach Park and Recreation. Recently we
had two minor airspace violations reported to the Park authorities. Our flying field is open to the general public so it is
very difficult for a club to be responsible for all those who use our field. The FAA along with Park officials and the LBPD
Air Patrol arranged to meet with club members and interested guests at our June club meeting. The FAA folks were very
polite, but told us that we must fly at 400'or below or run the risk of loosing our field as a flying site. I kept the AMA
informed of all the details and their advice was to abide by whatever the FAA wanted. Our flying field is 3 1/4 miles east
of Long Beach Airport directly in line with runway 25R, we our within Class D airspace. We are governed by 91-57a' and
part 91 of the FAR's. The FAA stated the last thing they wanted was for us to loose our field, but it was a very real
possibility if we did not comply with the altitude restrictions placed upon us. Our club has or had about ten thermal
duration fliers who were very unhappy with this ruling, The city feelings are they will do whatever it takes to comply with
the FAA wishes, including not renewing our annual permit to fly in the Park if we continue to violate airspace above 400
feet. We have a great flying site and the last thing we want is to loose it. I want to wish you, the best of luck, for you and
your Club at your upcoming meeting with City and Federal authorities. Please keep me informed.

Regards, Bill Sorensen
EDSF Club President

Model Aircraft Pilot Declaration of Intent
HSS (HARBOR SOARING SOCIETY)

I enjoy flying at Fairview Park and appreciate the privilege. Accordingly, I will not fly
in a careless or reckless manner, and specifically, I will not fly higher than the
absolute 400-foot maximum altitude limit as established for this controlled airspace
by the FAA and as may be reinforced by other regulations, guidelines and
ordinances.
I understand that such flying on my part or that of others; will lead to enforcement
action against the violator and offer cause for the FAA and/or City of Costa Mesa to
close the field to further flying!
Thus to protect public safety and preserve my flying privilege, I will caution any flyer
in violation of these provisions and take whatever action available to me, such as
contacting the Park Ranger, in an effort to prevent or correct any observed careless
or reckless flying, especially flight higher than the 400-foot maximum attitude.
(PRINT)
Name: __________________________________________________ _____
Address: __________________________________________________ _____
City: __________________________________________________ _____
Zip Code: __________________________________________________ _____
AMA #: __________________________________________________ _____
sincerely_________________________________________ ______________

SIGNATURE/DATE

looks kinda like the OP got it exactly right in what he told you in his very first post.



now, some ideas he and his fellows can use to keep themselves under 400ft.
anybody?

Looks like only members of the HSS have to worry about this. There is no formal declaration by the FAA and Costa Mesa does not have authority to limit how high you fly. Funny there was no mention of all of the injuries to non-flyers (one required stitches) and crashes of over twenty pound electrics that have taken place at Fairview Park in the last nine months. Hitting a pedestrian with a ten (or more) pound electric is far more likely than any collision with a light aircraft. I would worry about four feet from the ground first.

True enough...........however.....

I've flown out of Long Beach many times, on contract flights operated by the low-bidder for shuttle service to offshore military outposts like San Clemente Isl. The 'experienced' gooney birds with crumbling Mae Wests under the (some, preferred) seats had No Smoking placards in Farsi and some other oriental glyphics unfamiliar to me. I noted that the flight crew habitually flew VFR only, initially heading for Catalina, which is visible from LB when above a couple of hundred feet on most days despite the smog, then S to SCI when it came into view. High flying model sailplanes probably would not have exacerbated the anxiety of either flight crew or the handful of passengers much, but they wouldn't have made the commute more comfortable either.

Abel

i don't understand what you mean by no formal declaration. if the faa contacted the city and asked for a immediate revocation of the club permit, do you not think they would get it? they can - according to the regional airspace division - have the offending party arrested. i don't see any need for the FAA to flew their muscle on this one, but to politely remind the modeling community that the consequences for violating the airspace are both real and permanent. the faa could care less about the danger posed to the public by the city's decision to allow modeling to take place in the park, that's not their jurisdiction. nor does it serve any purpose to attempt to redirect the issue to electrics when the sole issue is the altitude of TD ships. i grew up in pasadena and flew at the rose bowl in the seventies when we could do that..and i love saiplanes...but we have to accept that so california is not a hospitable environment for gliders, and that the FAA has been patient and helpful in their efforts.

ohhh, THAT kind of 400' limit
ClassD Airspace with FAA standing order ceiling of 400' for your use.... Well there you go.

I do recomend reading the other recent 400' limit thread 400'... In Heavens Name How??? , in addition to a fine bit of bickering and fighting there are a few tips on guaging your planes altitude.

It would be nice if the full scale fools would stay above 400'... especially instructors with a student !

Don't laugh about it!

In Denmark the Danish aviation authorities has imposed the following limitations for model aircraft flying:

- Maximum height above ground: 100 m (328 ft)

- Minimum distance to official civil airfields: 5 km (3 miles)

- Minimum distance to military airfields: 8 km (5 miles)

I feel sorry for my Danish friends that have to live with these limitations and lucky that there are no such limitations where I live.

/Red B.

A statement like this is why the FAA has to impose such restrictions.

Obviously he doesn't realize that planes do have to take off and land from 0' AGL.

Hmm maybe something like Eagle Tree's telemetry system and set an alarm when you near the 400 ft limit. The other option would be something like the zLog which records your altitude.

Take your plane to a nearby mall with a large parking lot. Each 'parking space' is about 10' wide. Park at one end of the lot and prop your plane up against your car, walk about 40 spaces down. According to a google search. The "One World Trade Center" in Long Beach is 397 feet tall. At 350 feet is "Landmark Square" on Ocean Blvd. That should give you a visual reference of how tall 350 and 400 feet is.

This recent rash of questions about the 400' thing must be because the FAA has determined that only terrorists would fly a 56 pound model at 401'.

"There are too many laws" MM

The good thing about 400ft rule is that as far i can tell nobody really tries to enforce it.
There is not a pratical way for the FAA to enforce the rule and for the most part they
are not that interested in models as long as there is no conflict with full scale planes.

The club does not have a permit so it's real hard to pull something that isn't. The sole issue is the migration of ex-power only flyers to Fairview and their two year quest to take the park over for their own use. This means finding a means to kick out the sailplane flyers. For the last 35 years there has been no problem with the FAA. For the last 35 years there has only been one injury to a pedestrian and that was from a tow line. The power only flyers are ignoring the AMA review of the first of this year where they were told in a letter (published in the HSS news letter) that the park was not the place to be flying power as it is too public -- can't control the power flying area as the city will not let them close the ped trails.

The 24 hour overflight sample that the FAA used was where the local city police chopper was chasing homeless out of the part AT NIGHT. Take away all the hours but the morning till two in the afternoon and all but two of the less than 1,000 feet over flights go away. Those two over flights were the police chopper. This was as rigged as was the survey the power flyers did to support their quest.

The reasons behind this are more than obvious -- unless it matches your agenda.

They are bluffing. There is no such requirement outside 3 miles from the airport. Even inside it is an advisory. I suggest you read up on the AC and take this to a higer level. Actually even if they wrote such a rule a good lawer could point out that it is out of their jurisdiction. At least when out of their airspace. Which you are when below 1200 feet 3 miles from an airport.