The AMA is nothing more than adues collecting agency, i dont need the insurance my Homeowners policy covers me at the field . The monthly rag is boering.

Okay, don't join. Next

Ok, your homeowners covers YOU at the field but who covers the clubs liability and aren't you a participant in the club?

When there is a lawsuit steming from some unfortunate event at the field it isn't just you that is sued, it is every club member!

Deeper pockets!!

One thing to remember, not everyone has a home or homeowners insurance.

Sorry Art,
I just couldn't help myself. To leave a one liner lay there like that must be near criminal! LOL

Don't pick on the poor homeless, they probably can't afford the dues increase either!

Ever try and fly a cardboard box??? Actually if you do think about it, how many fliers are there that live in an apt. or just rent a home?? They probably don't have any insurance and if they did it would be renters insurance and I'm not sure if that would cover a person like my homeowners would, food for thought!

And your homeowners insurance won't do SQUAT for the landowner whose name will also mysteriously appear on any paper leaving the local County courthouse.

So quit, or don't join!

I'd be interested in an example of the entire membership of a club being sued because of some "event" at the field. I fail to see how I would be affected if I am in Vail on a ski trip and someone at a field in NC runs over someone with his plane.

First, we all need to realize that half of the claims handled by the AMA do not involve flying. They are characterized as 'trip and fall' type accidents.

As a specific example: a few years ago, a club was erecting a wind sock. The work was partially done. A large pole was being mounted on the top of a base. It was left propped up. A child played at the base and was crushed by the pole when it fell. There was a rather large settlement.

I doubt that your being out of the state at the time would have left you without liability had it gone to court, instead of being settled by the AMA.

In a more recent case, the one that caused the concern over bylaws, a member was ejected from the club without due process. Another large settlement from the AMA ensued.

Keep in mind, as well, that the landlord may be covered, if the club so chooses.

There is a lot more to AMA insurance than secondary coverage for the individual that has home owners insurance.

I have seen one fly, it did really well. I had a plane called the toad that was carboard too! Fun.

If you think your homeowners will cover everything, you are mistaken. You have how high of a max on your policy? If someone sues you for killing their kid who was standing there watching your plane when you lost controll, I am sure they will seek a lot more than your insurance will cover. Everyone hates paying insurance, but if an accident happens, and they can, you will be glad you had it.

Are you really? I don't know the limits of your HO's but mine is only $300,000.00 liability. I also have an Umbrella policy.
I don't want to be in jeopardy so that my home would go along with the HO ins.
AMA's secondary would be a welcome back-up should I get sued for some multi-million suit. It may well be the difference in having/not having my fine workshop to build/maintain my toys and a truck and trailer to transport them to the field.

In that same reference, that other guy at an AMA-only facility also has the ability to assist me should he do damage to me. That is even more comforting.

Before one gets one's panties all in a big wad, I suggest one stand back and get a big view of the big picture. The model aviation fraternity needs AMA and the insurance plan. The secondary plan is right and proper and keeps the costs well affordable.

While IMO we need AMA, the AMA services, we could well use some new management intended to make current services better rather than more bureaucratic and dictatorial. Of course that can only happen at the ballot box.

I am not against the AMA or the insurance, didn't mean to leave that impression. I believe we need the AMA for a number of reasons. But on the "scare" mentality I have heard regarding personal liability: I am not an attorney and perhaps I am wrong but in the example of a pole falling on a child, I do not believe I would have any liability in this case if I had nothing to do with it other than I belonged to the club erecting the pole, and in fact was not even in the same state when the accident occurred. Back to my original question: Do you know of an example where every member of a club was held personally liable for an "event", even those who were not present and did not participate in the "event"?

Addendum: As I said, I am pro AMA all the way, they are the national organization that connects all of us who like to play with airplanes.
What I would like to see is for the AMA to be more forthcoming with info on claims paid and in so doing, justify to the membership the premium increase. I looked at the financials posted and I see that about $500,000 or so was spent for insurance last year but I never could find any info on claims. I am sure this is out there someplace, I just don't know where to look. In my 20 yrs or so in AMA, I don't know of any claims.
And let me be clear about where I was coming from on earlier posts: I know I am responsible for what I tear up and for that alone I want the AMA insurance and the HOwners and anything else........I am just not ready to accept responsiblity for what you tear up.
Finally, it wouldn't hurt to have the magazine broken out so if you don't want it, you don't have to take it. Personally, I like it.

ljones5000

The erection of the pole was an ongoing effort, over a period of time. I am not an attorney either. IF you had been named as a defendant in the lawsuit, it is possible you might have been released from liability... but, not without representation. Your homeowner's might or might not have covered that.

Specific examples are going to be extremely hard to come by. As a condition of settlement of most suits, a non-disclosure agreement has to be signed.

Probably the closest you are going to get to your request, short of calling and talking to Carl Maroney, at AMA HQ, is this:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/insur.asp

summaries like this have been published from time to time by the AMA.

JR

I think the AMA fufills a very useful mission, so I'm not flaming anti-AMA but I do question some of the "theories" that go around about AMA and I do and should question the leadership. Heck, it's my organization! I not only have a right but an obligation to have input. I particularly don't like the national flying site, but that's just my opinion. I think the money could have been spent in better ways.

Below are the facts, as extracted from the 2000/2001 financial statements on their our website. Check them out for yourself.

The AMA spent about $540K in 2001 for membership insurance (Page 15) and spend about $300K annually on claims, according to the 21 month history posted earlier in this thread. The membership dues is about $6.448M annually (Page 3), so AMA has about 160,000 members, give or take. Insurance/claims are 13% of annual membership revenues. Now, if those expenses doubled, to $1.68M annually, the dues increase per member should be about $10. So if you believe that insurance and claims doubled, the dues hike was in the ballpark.

The only issue I have is that I can't see the claims expenses in the financial statements. (They may be masked in accounts like professional services and that would not be unusual for any entity to do) On the other hand, they may be included in the "Insurance" category, in which case, the total of claims and insurance is $540K, not $840K). In the latter case, the dues hike should be in the order of $5 annually.

The 2002 financials will be out in a few months. It will be interesting to see them and see how we did financially and how much of the $8.2M in cash we used.

Bob

bobfox

You might want to read thorugh the thread in this forum titled "What really caused the dues increase"

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...78&forumid=211]

Ok, what prompted my question in the first place, we had a long time member drop out of our club because he feared he would lose his house if a member's plane should fall on someone. A lot of to-do about nothing, my opinion. If you go to church a member of the congregation runs down a pedestrian in the parking lot, they will not sue every member of the congregation, that's my point. I have never heard of a case where they did but if they did, I truly doubt the suit would go very far.
You are correct in saying anyone can sue anyone else for anything anytime, but I don't think club members need to worry about events in which they didn't participate and had no involvment whatsoever. If I felt otherwise, I'd drop out tomorrow myself.
I am personally unaware of any situation in which an entire membership was sued for damages due to one club members negligence or accident and frankly doubt there is one.

ljones5000

That's exactly the reason that we have the AMA insurance on clubs and landlords. With a $2.5 million dollar policy in place to protect us. I don't understand your friends concerns either. As long as the club has a policy of enforcing the Safety Code, my mind is at ease. Without that coverage, I might look at the situation as your friend does.

I will still bet you a cup of coffee that if you call Carl Maroney, he will tell you that entire clubs have been named in suits many times. What happens after the suit is filed is the issue. That is what the insurance is for.

JR

If you look at any lawsuit filed in this country, you will see that they never file against someone with no money. If you have a club, and the 18 year old kit in the club hits someone and kills them, the family of the person hit will most likely go after the family of the kid, then the club and the richest members, the airplane manufacturer and radio and engine manufacturers. In most cases, they tend to go after the person or entity that has the deepest pockets. Look at the lady that spilled the coffee in her lap. She didn't sit back and say "that was dumb", she thought, who can I sue for this that has a lot of money. The bad part is, some bonehead lawyer took the case, a judge actually listened to it, and they actually gave her an award. Noone thought to ask why she felt that she wasn't the one who was responcible for her own actions. Thats what the country is coming down to and unfortunately, insurance is the only way to protect yourself. Therefor, the ama insurance is a good deal at any price really.