AMA President and Staff Meet with Transportation Security Administration in Washington D.C. to Discuss Transportation of Model Aircraft and Equipment on Airliners
(January 14, 2003)
For Immediate Release

Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) president Dave Brown, National Aeronautic Association (NAA) president Don Koranda, AMA Technical Director Steve Kaluf, and AMA Programs Director Jay Mealy met with senior officials of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) on Friday January 10, 2003 to discuss the transportation of model aircraft on airliners.

This initial meeting providing a sharing of information between the two organizations; AMA provided information to TSA regarding the types of materials its membership has to transport as checked baggage and detailed a few problems that have been noted by AMA members in the post-September 11 era.

TSA has offered to work with AMA to develop an adequate screening procedure and training materials (for TSA screeners) to ensure the models and equipment are thoroughly screened, but not mishandled or mistaken for actual threat items. The first phase of this will be for AMA to provide different types of models for examination at the TSA Tech Center. The Tech Center will examine the models and equipment with the same type of screening equipment used by the airports for ETD (Explosive Trace Detection) and EDS (Explosives Detection) to identify any materials that could cause a problem during normal screening procedures. AMA staff will also be on hand to answer questions or demonstrate proper handling methods of the models and equipment.

AMA's goal is to provide any needed information to TSA allowing it to educate its staff and screeners, further to provide to the AMA membership instructions on how to prepare models and equipment for transportation on commercial airliners to be in compliance with all regulations. Once the training of the TSA staff is complete and AMA members are properly instructed, we are hopeful that travel by airlines with models and equipment will be safe and as consistent as possible.

Steve Kaluf
Technical Director


Copied from the AMA Web site.

Is the transportation of model airplanes on commercial flights something that happens on such a regular basis that it in fact indangers all modelers abilities to fly our models? I am just curious. Why did the AMA (brass) feel the need to meet with the TSA or did the TSA call the AMA?

If the AMA took it upon themselves to make this trip, what did it cost us, does anyone know? And what are the benifits to us average guys?

This is great news!

We used to fly all of the time, my turbine jet was made to fit in a case made just to check as baggage, and we have given this up since 9-11.

Cudos to the AMA!! If they are successful this will greatly increase my enjoyment of hte hobby!

This will help prevent the TSA from confiscating our transmitted batteries that we find for a bargain while on vacation. Whew Hoo!

This will also help the R/C Car and boat guys who do quite a bit of traveling for state, regional and national events

Something positve! You also have to understand that checked baggage also applies to crated items on FedEx planes. TSA is working with FedEx, UPS and other shippers to develope guidelines for better sceening of packages going on Feight Aircraft. A fully loaded 767 is still a fully loaded 767 whether it is carrying packages or people. They both can make a big hole.

This is an excellent example of the good that AMA does. What else has the AMA done recently that can demonstrate what our dues help support?

Heavy Bird, read the post carefully. It says they outlined some problems that AMA members had made them aware of. There has been so much AMA "bashing" here lately, this is one time that the AMA is responding to some concern by members. Give the AMA a break!!!!

Yeah! They coulda taken more than 4 guys but they didn't!
I feel a lot better now.

Hey Vinnie, you get a bargain... only three guys were from the AMA, not four.

I'm glad to finally see something positive about the AMA in this forum. For awhile there I figured this forum needed to be renamed to "I hate the AMA and other things I don't understand."

Sorry MB, I was reading so fast I couldn't count to 4 properly.
Yet I managed to count to 58 just fine....go figure.

The AMA does alot for all, as it should. It will never cater to individuals, or small groups. That is probably the biggest reason for most of the hyperbole on this sight. "Yeah they should do that", is usually mumbled by the individual or small group who wants something without working for it. In a recent magazine article, a well known Modeling person made some rather self serving remarks when talking about his dealings with the AMA. 1. I wanted to do this but they wouldn't let me, there buttheads. 2 this limit here sucks, there buttheads. 3 this requirement sucks, there Buttheads. Everyone else does it, why cant we? Not the exact words but you get the idea. guess if he didnt' get immediate satisfaction from you, you were a butthead, so of course the AMA is the problem, not maybe him ? The AMA and its magazine is FOR ALL OF MODEL AVIATION, not one small part. Without the magazine listing all the numbers to call and Depts available, most people wouldn't know how to contact the AMA. FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT DONT LIKE THE MAGAZINE, donate it to your nearest school or kid on the block. That reflects better upon you than just burning it,or throwing it away. Hey that could be your way to promote the AMA, jeez who would of thought of that ?

Vince Presley

This brings up an issue that I think the AMA has not (at least publicly) addressed. And it's an issue that many if not most local clubs have to deal with on a daily basis. And it's not specifically an AMA issue. It's part of the social change in the hobby that has taken place. It's the "All I want to do is fly on Sunday morning, I don't care about other clubs or events or contests" member. Unless it effects me directly, I don't care about it and it's a waste of time/money/effort/etc...
We have the premier scale event in the northeast here in Maine. The CD is well known and attracts some of the best scale modelers in the hobby - Charlie Nelson, John Chevalier, Tom Kosewski, Roy Valliancourt, Jack Buckley, Bill Killam; Nicky Zrioli and Bill Steffes have attended. For the past two years we have been EXTRA fortunate to have the likes of David and Jason Shulman attend and fly both in the contest and demos during the event. One would think, if you're into R/C and live in the area, THIS would be the place to be. The CD asks area clubs for a donation to help defray the cost. We as a club have given in the past. $100. For our treasury, no big deal. But lo and behold, there are always atleast a few who neither attend the event that our club supports with money, contestants, and man power but complain to no end about spending that money because it doesn't directly benefit them.
That attitude carries over into other R/C activities. I don't know what the AMA answer should be. Or even if there is one.

Pray tell how much personal modeling budget you think each modeler in the area should give away to others so they can attract big name players? <VBG> Sorry, I find that idea simply incomprehensible as it does not benefit very many MODELERS but does gold plate the name guys. There is another word for that, but someone told me to be nice.

However I agree, this is a fairly widespread problem. A great many people have absolutely no interest in funding the fun of others, especially when it means giving up their rights to having fun. That is what happens when we close the field to the general membership for a big bird fly in (I fly IMAC) or for a SMALL event (I fly there too). The solution seems to be a local issues of motivation, reward, recognition, and cooperation. At least my club seems to have taken that approach and made it work.

I know at my club we have 2 or 3 SANCTIONED events each year and rarely have any problems with members who only wish to fly. In fact, most of the folks who will not fly in our sanctioned events, help run them.

I always like to bring a plane when I travel, but post 9/11, it has been too much of a hassle.
Good on AMA!
I used to bring an electric sailplane around, but now it's a Top Flite Roaring 20. Ken Willard had his set up for travel in a little box in his original MAN article, that's how I got the idea.
Sorry this anti-AMA thread backfired, Horace!

>>>>>>>>>>
Sorry this anti-AMA thread backfired, Horace!
<<<<<<<<<<<<<

BACKFIRED????

Man you need to upgrade your brand of rotgut.

I post a copy of work performed by AMA that is a positive effort for something good. I even use a lightbulb icon to indicate some light is shining and you call it "anti AMA"!!!
If you ever get a headache, Easy... , check for granite miners working there.
I still travel by air every so often, and this security garbage is totally out-of-hand.
The government is doing their best to drive the airlines out of business.
You must be government trained.

Jim,
Perhaps then you need to elighten me on exactly WHAT you feel the AMA SHOULD be doing? In one breath you say that they aren't doing enough and should spend some of the membership money promoting the hobby by sponsoring more events on the local level yet when I talk about our club (the small scale AMA if you will) spending some of the membership money to promote the hobby in our state you can't seem to stomach it?

You say: "A great many people have absolutely no interest in funding the fun of others, especially when it means giving up their rights to having fun. "
If this is the case how do you expect the AMA to come in and run some big event if it cannot exepct to have a venue in which to hold it???

To continue: "The solution seems to be a local issues of motivation, reward, recognition, and cooperation. At least my club seems to have taken that approach and made it work."
The fact is, the event I described above is open to ANYONE who wishes to compete. And they frequently do. I listed a handfull of names out of the 40 or so a year that compete. Average modelers, young and old with a wide range of skills. But they keep coming and they have fun and they go back to their local clubs and talk excitedly about the experience. And the folks from the local club who host the event are there Friday to help set up. They are there Monday morning to help clean up. Is THIS what you are talking about? If this isn't the type of positive exposure you think this hobby should be getting, both to the average modeler and the public, then I have no idea what you are getting at.

man.. this is when it gets frustrating .. the AMA takes the initiative to do something positive to work with the federal govt to do something that will help ANY modeler, whether it's a weekend warrior or a big name, and people STILL complain. I swear there is no making some people happy. To thoroughly enjoy this hobby I use the following recipe :

1. Pay my AMA dues each year
2. Build and maintenance when the weather is bad
3. Fly as much as possible when the weather is good and enjoy the comradeire with friends.

Plain and simple !

Sorry, I think I might have misread your comments. Somehow I thought you were saying that all area clubs were asked to fund an event at one club and you did not understand why some of your club guys were upset about that type of activity.

That being said, I was more addressing the end of YOUR first paragraph, the "All I want to do is fly on Sunday morning, I don't care about other clubs or events or contests" member. Unless it effects me directly, I don't care about it and it's a waste of time/money/effort/etc... " part. Those are the guys who benefit the most from fly-in's and that is what others have used to provide the motivation carrot and generate interest, helpers, and attitude changes.

Until they can see the benefit, any restrictions put on the flying field usage for an event is perceived loudly as rights that are being taken. BTDT and have the teeth marks to show for it!

The solution can lead to other problems, so be ready. Once we figured out the general recipe to keep folks coming back for more events, things got so far out of hand we had to begin to restrict the specialized events to insure the average member could fly fairly regularly. Look at how many weekends you field is available for use by the average modeler. Snow is an impediment as is cold weather. Those probably do not bother you, but they do the average modeler. We found that this was a very significant issue that impacted enough of the membership that we now plan almost everything a full year in advance.

:thumbup: Very well said, TexasAirMedic. Unhappy people abound and they try to bring everyone else down with them. I wonder where we would be right now without the AMA. I'm sure they have a lot of red tape, bureaucracy and wasted funds, but at the same time they do more for the hobby than any of the people who complain about them.

What I've learned is that most people complain because it's obvious they aren't doing anything productive to help the situation. They somehow rationalize it to themselves that if the AMA (or whoever they're complaing about) isn't performing to their personal satisfaction, then they have an excuse to sit back and do nothing.

I am so glad we have the AMA and that they're doing what they can to make sure the rest of the world knows that we're just a bunch of people trying to live our lives doing what we enjoy without hurting anyone. I don't care if they use our money to promote us to the CEO of McDonald's. Every person who isn't in the hobby who has come into contact with me has walked away knowing more about what we do and MUCH more tolerant of us.

I fly my helicopter in my neighborhood every night. The neighbors don't complain about it. What they do is come up and start asking questions and some of them are even checking into getting their own. It's all about promoting ourselves positively. The nay-sayers and complainers are more of a problem than the AMA could ever be.

Jim,
The problem is, most of those "All I want to do is fly on Sunday morning..." guys don't care even about events that take place at their OWN field. Last spring we held a club only fun fly. We handicapped the more experienced pilots with their hotrod fun fly jobs. And picked some events where those planes don't do well. It cost nothing to enter, we didn't invite anyone else. We had free hotdogs. We spent about $140 in prizes including a fun fly arf, fuel, club membership, and a hat. But you just KNOW that those guys still complained.
The one event we had (a club-only "Bring the biggest plane ya got" flyin, no events of any sort), did not raise any ire. Because it was really a Sunday flying session with hotdogs.
My point is, there is a growing segment of the population that doesn't care about anything that happens beyond the end of his driveway.

While that is true, it is a much wider problem than we can address.

My solution is to use a different approach to the problem. There ARE several 'club building' projects you can take that can (and frequently do) get those folks out off their driveways to help make it happen. Try some REGULAR (as in annual) non-competitive events for LOCAL children's charities, a cheap club only fly in with hot dogs/burgers/drinks on any given 3 day weekend.

The local children's charities gets them out because it is for kids they might have become or known rather than some faceless mob elsewhere (a frequently heard complaint about several charities I have heard). The 3 day holiday fly in brings out the hungry and reinforces the "lets have fun" component. I am sure that is what we need to improve to help the AMA grow.

BTW, scheduling a club fly in on every 3 day weekend and PUBLISHING the schedule in advance brings them out also. Doing it more than once shows intent and doing more than once a year shows commitment.

This is one of the hardest things for a competitor to do, support and encourage folks to just come out and have fun. One reason for that is most folks see the competitor hollering about how much fun it was to wax Mr. RDTRF or who ever. That means they don't understand how YOU can have fun when not competing. That happens to be a two sided coin. A very great many of competitors cannot fathom anyone having fun just tooling around in the sky.

I contend that if YOU are a LEADER, you will tackle this problem regardless of which side of the coin you stand on. Failure to do so is resignation to the ultimate disintegration of our hobby organization followed shortly by the hobby itself. But that is just MY opinion.



I

Myslef, I don't understand the need!

I don't see the reasoning in teaching a few thousand security screeners to recognize RC equipment as legit hobby items so that they can let us carry them on board!

How dumb do you have to be to not realize that a live RC transmitter could be used to detonate a device in a cargo compartment on board any airliner?
I can think of at least a half dozen other ways to use RC equipment for terroristic purposes, and I am NOT a terrorist.

If you find something 1000 miles from home and you want it that bad, SHIP IT! FED Ex, UPS, Emery, USPS, Mailboxes Etc. and MANY MANY MANY other companies are so ready to help that it is insane to consider the need to carry them on board!

I for one am disgusted that the AMA and our officers would even be so stupid as to waste the time of our Government's officials with such rediculous notions.
If Dave and company have extra time on hand, perhaps they could address how national security agents might prevent an RC Aircraft from delivering Nerve agents over the Super Bowl, or along a crowded beach or across the Mall in DC.

Convenience at the risk of security?
Get real!

Tom

Perhaps someone else should practice getting real.

The AMA/TSA session did not say anything about carrying RC stuff *ON-BOARD* an airliner but rather was defining the CHECKED BAGGAGE issue.
For those that go across the country for competitions or maybe just sport, carrying a box with model airplanes as CHECKED BAGGAGE is a near-prohibitive operation. Some have been refused simply because the engines had *oily substances*.
Now that ALL baggage is X-rayed, anything unusual gets the thumbs-down as well as the subject-knowledge level of the quoted post.
AMA officials -- in this case -- are simply performing a job that is part of education about how serious this RC (and CL/FF) sport can be. There is always much more to anything than that which the casual observer can reach out and see, touch or feel.
I haven't attempted to carry competition models in the airline within the past 8 or so years. However as an airline pilot up until 7 years ago, and one who frequently jumps on an airplane to go places and one that has seen this so-called *Security* cancer gobble up everything in its path, resulting in nothing more than fiscal chaos for the airline industry, I would be well willing to RISK that brand of security.
IMO, that is a good reason to *BOTHER*.

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