So Dave, in your article you say "We cannot afford to do dumb things if we are going to be allowed to enjoy our sport"

You are absolutely correct...the next time I find myself getting ready to vote for you, I will make sure and stop myself.

Thanks for the tip!

I haven't read the article and I suppose I should: However, Do you disagree with Dave, are you saying we CAN afford to do dumb things? Or, are you saying the article was so common-sense, it offended you with it's simplicity?

Since when has a simple admonishment to be safe, been determined to be dumb?

Actually none of the above. What I am saying is Dave should research what he writes about before making dumb statements.

I guess that is asking a lot though.

Dave sites 3 items specifically and rather than start to go where perhaps I shouldn't, let me just say that with regards to one of the items he mentions, he obviously has no clue exactly what happened or he would have left it out.

"What I am saying is Dave should research what he writes about before making dumb statements."

Gathering accurate info before making statements is not one of Dave's strong suits.
Fire-Aim-Ready.
Jon

agreed

Could it also be that there is just not that much for an AMA President to write about?

Why aren't you specifically stating; the who, what, where, when, why and how, of what you are talking about? In other words, where can "Dave Brown's Dumb Things article" be found?

You've made a statement about Dave's abilities as a leader and seem hesitant to substantiate your statements.

Look, I am capable of making statements I wish I never had. We all are and some are better at it then others. However, were I Dave Brown, I would feel it unfair to make a derogatory statement about me, without backing it up!

Obviously, some feel they understand your point, without your being specific. This makes me wonder if they truly do, or simply have a distaste for Dave Brown and will agree with anything bad stated about him!

The article is in this month's Model Aviation Magazine.

"You've made a statement about Dave's abilities as a leader and seem hesitant to substantiate your statements."

Oh really? show me where I said a bloody word about his leadership. I said the guy pops off without doing any research. If you wish to accuse me, get your facts straight.

"Look, I am capable of making statements I wish I never had. We all are and some are better at it then others. However, were I Dave Brown, I would feel it unfair to make a derogatory statement about me, without backing it up!"

Frankly I don't give a rats ass what you or Dave Brown think.

"Obviously, some feel they understand your point, without your being specific. This makes me wonder if they truly do, or simply have a distaste for Dave Brown and will agree with anything bad stated about him!"

And apparently some feel the need to stand up for him regardless of whether they know what they are talking about or not.


If you really want to try and play devils advocate and bait me into some sort of defense position, you had better learn to do it a helluva lot better than this.

I'll post one that comes to mind.
Years ago at SUPERMAN Wolfgang Khlur flew a turbine model at night.
Dave went into a full page rant about it in MA without ever getting the facts first. He really didn't have a clue about what happened other than, according to him, it was an irresponsible act and must never happen again.
Oh, at the end of the article he said that there was no violation of the safety code in flying at night, but he soon changed that.
Do a search on tail touches, models weighing over 55 pounds, etc, you'll find plenty of his editorials that are lacking in the facts.
Jon

Liberator, I can't defend what Dave Brown has said, anymore then I can disagree with what you have! Without your being specific about what and where Dave has made a statement that you feel was dumb, how can I? Why are you hesitant to quote what he said?

I'm still waiting for an editors comments page written by Dave Brown (our fearless leader) in the last 2-3 years that isn't based on insurance, fear of accidents, etc...does he ever write about the joy of the sport? No. Does he ever write about the future of the sport? No - unless you count the future of lawsuits and insurance which is a hot topic for him.

We have a safety column in the magazine - stick that stuff there. Dave Brown isn't doing his job - only a tiny fraction of it and he's stuck on it.

The October's President's column was a discussion of the various facets of this hobby and Special Interest Groups (SIGs) available to those with an interest in joining them.

I disagree with statements made that Dave Brown seems to only base his column on lawsuits, the potential for accidents and safety issues, or insurance. I read his column most every month. If he's talking about something I don't have an interest in, I turn the page. Possibly, Dave isn't the best man for the job of President of the AMA, possibly he is. Election time will tell the tale. If he's re-elected, then the membership has given him a vote of confidence. Quite obviously some of you feel it's time for a change! That's fine with me, as I have no real opinions about him.

An old R/Cer friend of mine, since deceased, participated in the Nats many years ago and met Dave there. He felt Dave was a fair and friendly guy, helpful to the other participants. This was in contrast to other "Big Name people" still active in this hobby whom were quite the opposite!

If Dave decides to run again, and I think he will, he will win. He has a hardcore group of supporters, mostly FF and C/L, who will vote for him no matter what. Look at the previous elections, he always gets around 15,000, +/-, and since so few members vote he wins easily.
He has to retire sometime and maybe his recent medical problems will point him in that direction.
Twelve years is too long for anyone to be president; we need some new ideas.
I also agree w/Bob101, many of his editorials are doom and gloom and not about the positive aspects of modeling.
Jon

Curious as to what actual data you have to prove the above supposition.
Hardcore group of supporters? Mostly FF and CL? Are you saying there are 15,000 guys, mostly CL and FF, who are the reason DB gets elected?

I don't know who elected him but I'd bet it wasn't the jet or the 3d fliers... []

As far as 3D and Jets (the FUTURE of the sport) Dave could really care less. He protects his personal interests and isn't doing a thing to progress the sport of 3D and jets. All he's been doing is saying how dangerous the few incidences have been and nothing exciting about how the sport has progressed. I feel that a president should be unbiased and help all parts of this sport. I know there are more than a few thousand people that will agree with me on that.

Very simple, check out the past election results.
As I've said, he's gotten almost the same number of votes each time he's run, quite a coincidence, and his nearest opponet gets about half. Approximately 10-12% of the membership takes the time to vote in an election, the rest, IMO just don't care-they pay their $58 so they can fly at their field and want nothing more to with the AMA. As for the people who like Dave and the way he's running the AMA, I would think that they would vote to ensure his staying in office, but I guess most don't. Of course you could look at it another way and say that 15,000 modelers like the direction Dave is taking the AMA and the rest don't care.
It's a well known fact that, at least to me and many other modelers who try to keep up with the workings on the AMA, FF and C/L guys think Dave is looking out for their interests versus R/C. Both groups may be small in number but they're very dedicated to their aspect of the hobby and vote in larger percentages than the R/C guys.
Jon

Actually you don't have to search very far back to find that Dave wasn't for and even wanted to highly regulate or even do away with turbines and 3d....

I used to have a letter from him saying how everything had gone way to far and that it needed to be reduced back, that it was all an accident waiting for a place to happen (this isn't an exact quote)...

Ya know...I'm usually good with snappy comebacks.... but with a line like this...its just too easy..
I'll just let it stand on its own.........

It's interesting to read people criticize Dave Brown like he's personally injured them or something. It's
hard for me to understand how this personal hatred can be directed toward someone when the one who
is doing the criticizing probably has no idea what is going on in the day to day business of the AMA. It's
easy to bad mouth someone else and there is always plenty of people to agree with you but if you have so
many better brilliant ideas on how to run the AMA why don't you share them with all of us so we will all
be enlightened. As far as being preoccupied with safety he could go a lot further if you ask me. If you fly
at a clubs private flying field it may not be much of a problem but just take a trip to any field that is open to the
public and you will see all kinds of stupid crap going on that makes you wonder how more people aren't getting
hurt than there is. As they say, the grass always looks greener ( but seldom is ).

tommy s

I actually FLY ff and cl. I know some of the leading lights of those worlds(I'm not one of the leading lights, myself, just a dilettante!), been to many meets and clubs, and it's a "well known fact, at least to me" that the FF and CL worlds rate Dave Brown about the same as the RC world. I'd say the ratio of approval/dissaproval is identical to RC flyers. I'd say the VOTING ratio is about the same, too. The whole myth of some mysterious power base of 15,000 free flight and CL guys(doubt there even ARE 15,000 FF and CL guys anymore) getting Dave Brown elected is about as valid as "all the fat cats earning big salaries in Muncie off our membership dollars" and many of the other old saws that get bandied about here. It's not true. But then again, this is my conclusion based upon what I have experienced, not to be construed as "fact". Which is what your supposition is...same thing...just some pure speculation, nothing more.

Tommy S, could not agree more.

Where in my post am I criticizing DB?
All I said was, IMO, if he decides to run for re-election he'll win.
He's run three times, won three times and had roughly the same amount of votes each time, and won by the same margin each time, and roughly the same number of members voted in each election, so it's not unreasonable to predict that he will win again, should he chose to run.
As far as C/L and FF, I'm not going to argue with you about it. You have a right to your opinion just as I do. Whatever group(s) he's tapped, he's got a base of 15,000 modelers that will vote for him, no matter what. There's nothing wrong with that; politicians all have a core base that they can rely on for votes. Any challenger is going to have to go into the election with his own base, and I don't see anyone with those types of numbers.
Jon

Okay. So it's an opinion, now, not "fact". And it may have no substance whatsoever.
Well...my opinion is that there is no "hardcore constituency of FF and CL guys who always vote DB into power". It's pure nonsense. In my opinion.

Dave Brown is an R/Cer, now. I think it more logical that R/Cers might be the 15K that constistanly vote him in?

Per Liberator; "The article is in this month's Model Aviation Magazine". This statement lead me to believe I was looking at the correct months article by Dave Brown, the November 2006 issue. For the life of me I could not understand what Liberator was talking about! Finally today, not 5 minutes ago, my December issue arrived. The referanced article is in the December's issue. I have not read, but will. I guess it might have helped being more specific about the issue being refered too. We need to remember that the mail does not arrive at the same time for everybody!