johndou

$1.00 a day to fly a model?

Umm, what are "greens fees" running these days? What's the cost of a golf club membership? Full scale planes are running around $100.00 per hour at most clubs. Or, I guess you could own your own for something over $100K ... plus hanger or tie-down fees, fuel, insurance ... Or maybe hunting? What's it cost for those deer tags these days? Or to get into the lottery? Sounds like $1.00 would be pretty cheap for access to 150 acre site to fly my models! Sign me up!

Hossfly

Now we're getting somewhere. Just like " 'ooter's' " and it will GO!

Gremlin Castle

My Feedback: (14)

So Horrace does this mean that it is worth a dollar a day to you?

Gremlin Castle

My Feedback: (14)

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

5 is better than zero.


However, lets try a different twist to the formula. Currently there is an AMA magazine that seems to cost $28.00/yr based on this forums discussions. Now, the PPP has come along with quartely magazines at a much lower rate of $9.95.

So, lets shift MA to quarterly, and take the extra $18.05 and put it towards AMA flying fields. using the 150,000 member number yields $2,707,500/year. So, thats a field or two per year, depending on location. No extra money out of the pocket, people can still have private clubs! Prioritizing the budget, and thinking long term: In 10 years thats 10-20 new fields.

Oh wait, that will never work...we have to have it NOW NOW NOW.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

You've just realized that the magazine doesn't cost 2.7mm. The AMA spends a total of just over 1mm cost on the magazine after it's all done and over with. So how could the AMA save 2.7mm, if they are only spending over 1mm to produce the magazine 12 issues???

The magazine actual cost is in black and white and confirmed by the AMA President. Retail price is a different story.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

No, I am saying the AMA could use that $2.7mm towards airfields, there was no comment about any realization of actual cost of the magazine.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

This is what I was wondering. If the AMA spends 1.1mm net on the magazine, then how can you take $2.7 million earned from money saved and put it towards anything? If you want to put this into perspective, take the 1.1 mm net, reduce by 1/4, that leaves a little over 250k to spread out over acquiring fields. However that will only increase publishing costs due to lower limits.

I have a feeling that PPP magazine will be going from quarterly to annual in the future. I also have a feeling that PPP's will be the dominant group in the future as well.

KidEpoxy

They do it the same way you claim to get $6/$8 (or more) for the magazine from a $1 youth.

Uh, if you reduce $1.1mil by 1/4, that is over $750k. The amount of reduction, 1/4, would be 275k.
Perhaps if you reduced it TO 1/4 you'd get the numbers you are looking for.

You are trying to apply the cost effect of a smaller copy number to a lower freequency. All the cost breaks for stamping out 135k+ copies would still be there.

...

Back to the topic,
Building AMA Regional Superfields as I refered to it last year,
If they were similar to giant clubs, run by AMA, and close enough to large metro areas like SoCal, then several hundred members at $365 might work. But if it is too close, then existing clubs will feel loss to it, and too far nobody will go out to it.

We already have the Muncie field, for when it's not winter,
lets put a AMA Regional field outside of Vegas for when its not summer.
It would be a lot easier to talk the family into a vacation trip to Vegas than having them enjoy all the other attractions Muncie Indiana offers. Also, if you wanted to get John Q Public into flying RC, promote the Vegas Superfield as a spectator venue for all them vegas tourists. If we keep the field out of Clark Co, we could even have it staffed with ... uh... adult entertainers as well <thats legal in NV>
Now there is a membership freebee that will get more folks to join than a magazine & sticker

KidEpoxy

They do it the same way you claim to get $6/$8 (or more) for the magazine from a $1 youth.

Uh, if you reduce $1.1mil by 1/4, that is over $750k. The amount of reduction, 1/4, would be 275k.
Perhaps if you reduced it TO 1/4 you'd get the numbers you are looking for.

You are trying to apply the cost effect of a smaller copy number to a lower freequency. All the cost breaks for stamping out 135k+ copies would still be there.

...

Back to the topic,
Building AMA Regional Superfields as I refered to it last year,
If they were similar to giant clubs, run by AMA, and close enough to large metro areas like SoCal, then several hundred members at $365 might work. But if it is too close, then existing clubs will feel loss to it, and too far nobody will go out to it.

We already have the Muncie field, for when it's not winter,
lets put a AMA Regional field outside of Vegas for when its not summer.
It would be a lot easier to talk the family into a vacation trip to Vegas than having them enjoy all the other attractions Muncie Indiana offers. Also, if you wanted to get John Q Public into flying RC, promote the Vegas Superfield as a spectator venue for all them vegas tourists.

Just put ta sign up touting the 1 Free Insured Guest Day, and another for the $19 AMA Taster, and masses of tourists will 'join ama' for $20 flying RC on vacation.

The total membership is already paying for the Muncie field, the total membership could pay for the Vegas Superfield as well for the $365 Anual Pass / $1DayPass

Hossfly

P-51, this forum is not the base of any AMA financial situation. In MA, using the Feb. '08 issue, page 199, the allocated portion of the Open member dues for MA is $18.00.
Advertising $$ income, by the annual audit figures (AMA web Members Only section) only covers the cost of producing the advertising plus for a very few $$. The magazine is paid for by member dues.
The above has been covered many times in this forum.


Another full time magazine by AMA, Yes, I will agree with that forecast. Minutes of the EC meetings already evidence that the tail (Publications and employed staff) is wagging the dog (Ex. Council).
For years I have predicted AMA will evolve into a subsidized publishing company financed by YOUR member $$$, and an insurance provider financed through Captive Insurance Companies, with nice Distributions paid to the Directors who are, at this moment, "Insiders" of the AMA. Unfortunately, IMO, some 70% of the AMA membership just ignores the "Writings on the Wall", while another 20% are not adequately sophisticated to comprehend the writings.

As for as new flying fields through AMA, and a $365 a year dues structure to support such, ROTFLMAO! [sm=greedy.gif] If you read through these RCU forums, AMA, Clubhouse, Beginners and some others, RC modelers (?) think $30 dues is prohibitive for club dues. My club Jetero has a big problem right now as members are dropping because of $150 annual dues, yet some belong to golf country clubs at $2000.00 a year.
Even myself, I will not pay $365 per year to belong to whatever if it means that I have to drive 300 miles to use the facility. At $4.00 per gallon for diesel, do you think I will even drive over a 100 miles to an event? Nope!
OTOH here is my story also posted in another thread just to show that I am not exactly cheap when it comes to providing a flying site, however everything has a limit.
>>>>>>
A HISTORY LESSON

In 1995, my club was given notice to vacate their field on Waste Management property by Mar. 01, 1996, even though just previously they were told they could stay much longer. I ran for and was elected President for 1996, with the intent of obtaining a new field. I negotiated and obtained a 30 day extension.
Certain Club members formed a group and we went searching. We found a nice 50 acre plot in a 100 acre unit. After negotiation, the owner was willing to sell the property within market reason, however if the entire 100 acres were to be purchased the price was much better, $2475 per acre. I transferred $250,000.oo and the deal was done.

>>>After 1996 I could no longer be a club officer due to conflict of interest<<<<

I leased 30 acres to the club for 18 months. The club then purchased the 30 acres for $2500 per acre. They were credited with 50% of the lease expense as down payment. I held the note through a Trust Co. The note was contracted at 6% interest for 5 years with interest thereafter to be PRIME minus ONE for each year thereafter starting in Dec. each year.
Folks, I lost many thousands $$ in this deal. Last year I sold 20 additional acres to the club at $2000 per acre LESS than what another individual was offering for the property. That was another $40,000 LOSS on my part. With some other discounts on my part the club managed to come up with another "banker" to take up the original note and the new note at 7%. I am no longer in the club financing business. However, IMO, I have a vested interest in this club, and I want it to remain in being.
<<<<<<<
In this time I have had to witness the club become under the management of a "do little or nothing' clique, especially the past 3 years. I ran for VP this year but lost by 5 votes with the largest voter turnout in the past 6 years. The ones against me were the 'insider' guys that were afraid they would loose their power structure and a bunch of those that fly often but contribute NOTHING to the upkeep of the club.

Newbies harp about the dues, but love the 5000 +/- sq. foot metal covered concrete, paid mowing, office area, large kitchen, own well for water, electrics to the tables and areas, indoor toliet facilities, and so many other goodies that we builders did in the first 6 years. Only one 400 sq. ft. shelter extension has been accomplished in the last 6 years.

Just who the HECK is going to pay for and maintain AMA Flying facilities? It DARN well will NOT EVER be PPP members or Contest Fliers or basic freeloaders that fly several days a week but when it comes to WORK, their grandmother just died again, like she does every other day!!! [:'(]

Dream ON! [>:]

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Ok, use $18.00 if that number is better (not sure if the page 199 is completely forthcoming regarding a 12 month magazine being $18.00 while a quarterly PPP mag is $9.95...but thats for another thread...) which is still $1.2mm to put towards fields each year.

Hossfly

No it isn't "forthcoming". Actually it's a number to give the publications people more leeway in AMA's refusal to make MA show a profit. In my post I explained what the objective is and any benefit for modelers is, In my very learned opinion, not part of the ultimate objective.

So, P-51B, you get those Muncie folks to give up their personal objectives in the insurance and publications business, and I will be the first to yell "Hip, Hip, Hooray for the Mustang." Your work is now cut out for you, big-time! [>:]

edited to better define quote

abel_pranger

Hoss-

I just went to the page you cited, and Eureka! I gotta plan that lets all those personal interests be satisfied and leaves you, me and everybody else happy. If the pubs folks would train their marketing guns North and get about 100 thou more Canucks to subscribe to MA at 60 bucks per head, we can all have our cake and eat it too.

C'mon, you must concede that is a better plan than pee pee pee, no?

Abel

theradioflyer

I have a hard enough time paying the AMA my yearly dues. They didn't do a damn thing to help us fight to keep our club that we lost 2 yrs ago. I certainly won't give them any more $ than I have to.

Hossfly

Yep, AP, those that support pee pee pee, must be drinking too much beer. I only drink enough to support 2 0f the 3.

busted2props

My Feedback: (9)

HOSS,
What 'bout those of us that support ---just fly---It doesn't matter what ya fly, just fly! I'm with ya though, too may pee pee's for me.

busted2props

My Feedback: (9)

There ya go! Another one lost! Did the club ask for help? Who knows, the point is, another flying field is lost. I'm telling ya, it takes lawyers, guns and money. He who has the best lawyers, the biggest guns and the most money wins![&:]

Oh yeah, stay on topic! Would I pay a dollar a day? Yes for the days I fly. For 365 plus leap year? Hell no![:@]

Gremlin Castle

My Feedback: (14)

How about on the days you fly $20 and the rest of us will pick up your share for rest of the year?

theradioflyer

We asked many times for AMA to help us out. Nothing from them at all[:@] We did hire a lawyer but lost in the end. We just wanted something from the AMA to show support for our cause, nothing. I will give them my minimum and that's all. Do I think they could support a field near by to fly at for $365, you have to be kidding.

Hossfly

Radioflier, you insinuate that paying AMA dues is a lot for you. Your RCU Profile record does not evidence such. You are into planes, helicopters, and RC Trucks. You also have a picture of a pilot in a War Bird. Is that YOU? If so, I hardly think your financial situation precludes AMA dues being more than mere pocket change.

Now as far as AMA flying site help, you have a great chance to get even for their lack of attention to your plight. Your AMA DVP is up for reelection this year. You say you have been building for 19 years and that you are an expert pilot. Well SIR, if not already, apply for and get your Leader Membership, and run against that guy that did not help you. IMO, you would definitely be a HERO standing TALL AMONG MEN if you would unseat that individual.

Mode one has a thread here, "District VII Vice President" that not long ago, in Feb, I posted there all the info for Leader membership. Or just go to the AMA website, to the Documents section and pull it up. It is easy to do. "Git 'er Done!" [sm=47_47.gif]

edited to add name of M-1's thread.

theradioflyer

I'm not interested in running. I ended up being president of that club the following year and we certainly had a tough run of find a new field. It was only at that time that AMA sent a DVD and paper work that showed how state parks and R/C clubs could be profitable partners. We never got the OK form the state park but that was in no way the AMA's fault. My point is that there's no way in heck that I would pay the AMA $365 to put a flight field together. Local clubs have a hard enough time trying to keep fields now that urban sprawl is taking over.
As far as judging my wealth[X(] Where do you stop? Yeah that's me sitting in a SNJ-4, a flight my wife bought for my birthday. Pocket change? I'm in my mid thirties and I work construction, currently laid off. Good Judging Hoss.

My point on dues. AMA is a monopoly. Any local club mandates that you carry an AMA card. If I want to fly at those fields I have to pay the dues, NOT THAT I WANT TO.

Good-Luck

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I hope your flame suit is on...Here comes STL

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

When you say $1 per day, so you mean I show up at the field and pay $1 or are you saying I need to pay $365 per year to join the club that manages the site.

On a per flying day basis I would gladly pay $2 per day. But that is a lot more than I pay now. Today I pay $35 per year in dues to fly all I want. But still, that would be a very nice arrangement.

I fly 30-45 days per year so that would be $30 to $45 per year. No problem.

Now, will they let me set up my winch and fly my gliders. Probably not.

Hossfly

The original poster did not mean for the days one actually flew. By Gar, I tink he do mean what he say, a dollo' a day! [>:]

REVIEW LESSON:

Post #1 Gremlin Castle: "How many people would be willing to pay a dollar a day to fly at a field owned by the AMA?"
"If fifty thousand of the AMA membership committed to a project like this it would generate eighteen million dollars a year. It would not take too many years to have decent flying sites in several parts of the country."

Post #8 Hossfly: "Please check my math however your figures consider that the 50,000 members paying $1 per day are paying for each day of the year, or $365 each per year. 50,000 x 365 = $18,250,000

That is a long way off of paying $1 per day to fly since I -- just by experience alone -- doubt that the average flier flies more than an average of 2 days per week. That brings the total down to $2 per week X 52 = $104 per year, X 50,000 = $5,200,000 per year."

Post #13 Gremlin Castle: "Horace, did you see anywhere in my post that it said a dollar for each day that you fly at the field? It said a dollar a day period."


I do rightly believe he meant $1 per day, 365 days per year except leap year and that would be another yankee dollar. [sm=idea.gif]