Would you pay a dollar a day?
03-20-2008, 09:56 AM
#52
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: aeajr
Thanks Hossfly. missed post 13.
At $365, that would be a little too steep for me, especially since I would probably be a little steep for most people.
Thanks Hossfly. missed post 13.
At $365, that would be a little too steep for me, especially since I would probably be a little steep for most people.
03-20-2008, 07:38 PM
#53
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: aeajr
Thanks Hossfly. missed post 13.
At $365, that would be a little too steep for me, especially since I would probably be a little steep for most people.
Thanks Hossfly. missed post 13.
At $365, that would be a little too steep for me, especially since I would probably be a little steep for most people.
It looks like the bulk of the respondents to the thread thus far are troubled by the dollar a day whether it is an AMA developed or a private corporation.
Maybe flying fields and politics do have some things in common. We can expand the old saying to "most people deserve the politics and the flying site that they get."[8D]
03-21-2008, 06:19 PM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: Gremlin Castle
Maybe flying fields and politics do have some things in common. We can expand the old saying to "most people deserve the politics and the flying site that they get."[8D]
Maybe flying fields and politics do have some things in common. We can expand the old saying to "most people deserve the politics and the flying site that they get."[8D]
Abel
03-22-2008, 12:40 AM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
I think $365 a year for a nice place to fly would be a bargain. But just like everything else, a few idiots would find their way to the controls because of the apathy of the others and therefore preclude such a place in real practice. Nice to dream about though.
03-22-2008, 07:19 AM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
When I first started flying, I wasn't interested in a club. I figured it would cost around 200 -300 bucks to join and couldn't really afford it. Then started flying larger nitro planes, inquired about a couple local clubs and was shocked to find $55 bucks(plus AMA) would get me in. I'm still amazed some members, who are fairly well heeled, still complain about 55 dollars. But, as much as I love flying, I would be willing to pay more. $365? That would be tough, but I'd probably do it if I had to.
As far as "idiots at the controls", I'm grateful someone steps up to do the admin. work. I go to a few meetings, raise my hand once in awhile, mow the grass occasianally, pick up trash and fly a lot.
As far as "idiots at the controls", I'm grateful someone steps up to do the admin. work. I go to a few meetings, raise my hand once in awhile, mow the grass occasianally, pick up trash and fly a lot.
03-22-2008, 08:37 AM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
Why would anyone want to pay a fixed cost to join a flying club? A club is supposed to be a group that shares expenses and then banks a few extra percentage points for proposed plans.
03-22-2008, 10:18 PM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: STLPilot
Why would anyone want to pay a fixed cost to join a flying club? A club is supposed to be a group that shares expenses and then banks a few extra percentage points for proposed plans.
Why would anyone want to pay a fixed cost to join a flying club? A club is supposed to be a group that shares expenses and then banks a few extra percentage points for proposed plans.
I really don't think the premise of this discussion was about a club or clubs per se but rather an AMA supported flying field.
One more time...a flying field is not a club...a club is the people... a flying field is a place.
I think multiple AMA flying sites is a grand idea if it can be keep along the lines AMA has envisioned as per the current guidelines and SC.
The problems always come from a few that invariably wish to install their personal legacy into the fiber or foundation of most clubs or club flying fields. It always astounds me to see the competition between solicitous club members to have some rule of the month installed into the club flying field rules as per their bearing. A good litmus test that will expose these “legacy installers” is to point out that by the very nature of their intent to expand the club flying field rules, with unnecessary additional rules of normal flying field operations, they are giving an outright indication that AMA’s SC is deficient, lax or negligent… they will then squirm to find some rational to support or hide their play…not hard to figure when you got em…their uproar will be loud but absolutely baseless.
03-23-2008, 09:23 AM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
I really think you posted just to troll the thread.
I really don't think the premise of this discussion was about a club or clubs per se but rather an AMA supported flying field.
One more time...a flying field is not a club...a club is the people... a flying field is a place.
I think multiple AMA flying sites is a grand idea if it can be keep along the lines AMA has envisioned as per the current guidelines and SC.
The problems always come from a few that invariably wish to install their personal legacy into the fiber or foundation of most clubs or club flying fields. It always astounds me to see the competition between solicitous club members to have some rule of the month installed into the club flying field rules as per their bearing. A good litmus test that will expose these “legacy installers” is to point out that by the very nature of their intent to expand the club flying field rules, with unnecessary additional rules of normal flying field operations, they are giving an outright indication that AMA’s SC is deficient, lax or negligent… they will then squirm to find some rational to support or hide their play…not hard to figure when you got em…their uproar will be loud but absolutely baseless.
ORIGINAL: STLPilot
Why would anyone want to pay a fixed cost to join a flying club? A club is supposed to be a group that shares expenses and then banks a few extra percentage points for proposed plans.
Why would anyone want to pay a fixed cost to join a flying club? A club is supposed to be a group that shares expenses and then banks a few extra percentage points for proposed plans.
I really don't think the premise of this discussion was about a club or clubs per se but rather an AMA supported flying field.
One more time...a flying field is not a club...a club is the people... a flying field is a place.
I think multiple AMA flying sites is a grand idea if it can be keep along the lines AMA has envisioned as per the current guidelines and SC.
The problems always come from a few that invariably wish to install their personal legacy into the fiber or foundation of most clubs or club flying fields. It always astounds me to see the competition between solicitous club members to have some rule of the month installed into the club flying field rules as per their bearing. A good litmus test that will expose these “legacy installers” is to point out that by the very nature of their intent to expand the club flying field rules, with unnecessary additional rules of normal flying field operations, they are giving an outright indication that AMA’s SC is deficient, lax or negligent… they will then squirm to find some rational to support or hide their play…not hard to figure when you got em…their uproar will be loud but absolutely baseless.
I've noticed one of the major gripes of having the Muncie site is that the Nationals is accessable to only a minority of members. Having 5 sites spread out around the country would help, but at what cost. I would have no problem paying a llittle more, or maybe a one time donation to that end, but $365 a year? Nope. I can't imagine many others agreeing to this either.
I guess I should feel lucky I live only an hour from the one national site we do have
03-23-2008, 10:12 AM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
Would you pay a dollar per day ?
Do soccer players pay a dollar per day? Do softball or basketball players pay a dollar per day ? Why are their parks payed for with tax moneys but ours are not ? Why is this monkey on our backs and no one elses ? I would pay a dollar per day for the AMA to hire the lawyers needed to correct this injustice. Lets fix this once and for all.
Do soccer players pay a dollar per day? Do softball or basketball players pay a dollar per day ? Why are their parks payed for with tax moneys but ours are not ? Why is this monkey on our backs and no one elses ? I would pay a dollar per day for the AMA to hire the lawyers needed to correct this injustice. Lets fix this once and for all.
03-23-2008, 10:47 AM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: PilotFighter
Would you pay a dollar per day ?
Do soccer players pay a dollar per day? Do softball or basketball players pay a dollar per day ? Why are their parks payed for with tax moneys but ours are not ? Why is this monkey on our backs and no one elses ? I would pay a dollar per day for the AMA to hire the lawyers needed to correct this injustice. Lets fix this once and for all.
Would you pay a dollar per day ?
Do soccer players pay a dollar per day? Do softball or basketball players pay a dollar per day ? Why are their parks payed for with tax moneys but ours are not ? Why is this monkey on our backs and no one elses ? I would pay a dollar per day for the AMA to hire the lawyers needed to correct this injustice. Lets fix this once and for all.
03-23-2008, 10:47 AM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: PilotFighter
Would you pay a dollar per day ?
Do soccer players pay a dollar per day? Do softball or basketball players pay a dollar per day ? Why are their parks payed for with tax moneys but ours are not ? Why is this monkey on our backs and no one elses ? I would pay a dollar per day for the AMA to hire the lawyers needed to correct this injustice. Lets fix this once and for all.
Would you pay a dollar per day ?
Do soccer players pay a dollar per day? Do softball or basketball players pay a dollar per day ? Why are their parks payed for with tax moneys but ours are not ? Why is this monkey on our backs and no one elses ? I would pay a dollar per day for the AMA to hire the lawyers needed to correct this injustice. Lets fix this once and for all.
I hear you brother!
The problem we have is more to do with our reclusive nature of most in the hobby. Flying fields are usually in BFE, behind locked gates and consequently public exposure is too low to provide the type of public interest necessary to foster public support and growth. The key would be to remove all the roadblocks possible so that the general public can be introduced to our great hobby.
BTW Before STL comes in and says PPP is the answer, I will go ahead and say it falls short on many counts.
03-23-2008, 12:04 PM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
The problem we have is more to do with our reclusive nature of most in the hobby. Flying fields are usually in BFE, behind locked gates and consequently public exposure is too low to provide the type of public interest necessary to foster public support and growth. The key would be to remove all the roadblocks possible so that the general public can be introduced to our great hobby.
The problem we have is more to do with our reclusive nature of most in the hobby. Flying fields are usually in BFE, behind locked gates and consequently public exposure is too low to provide the type of public interest necessary to foster public support and growth. The key would be to remove all the roadblocks possible so that the general public can be introduced to our great hobby.
Here's a quote from the Parks Dept concerning one of the newest parks in the area:
" One of the County's premier sports facilities, <park name> is nestled within a 25-acre community park near <community names>. This sports complex features five baseball/softball fields, five soccer/multipurpose fields, two tennis courts, two basketball courts, and a roller-hockey rink.
This complex is committed to serving the needs of recreational youth sports organizations. In doing so, it has adopted national youth sports standards for all organizations that are participating in programs at the park."
There seems to be a mindset that every park user is a youthful jock and needs to be involved in organized sports. The fields lie fallow most of the time, with barriers and signs up warning people to stay out. Changing that mindset is what is needed to promote aero modeling, not insurance, not membership in a national organization, not a one-size-fits-all definition of what is appropriate to fly in a park.
Abel
03-23-2008, 05:30 PM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
That's a good part of it, and besides the general public, the public officials that represent them need to be exposed to our hobby/sport as well.
Here's a quote from the Parks Dept concerning one of the newest parks in the area:
" One of the County's premier sports facilities, <park name> is nestled within a 25-acre community park near <community names>. This sports complex features five baseball/softball fields, five soccer/multipurpose fields, two tennis courts, two basketball courts, and a roller-hockey rink.
This complex is committed to serving the needs of recreational youth sports organizations. In doing so, it has adopted national youth sports standards for all organizations that are participating in programs at the park."
There seems to be a mindset that every park user is a youthful jock and needs to be involved in organized sports. The fields lie fallow most of the time, with barriers and signs up warning people to stay out. Changing that mindset is what is needed to promote aero modeling, not insurance, not membership in a national organization, not a one-size-fits-all definition of what is appropriate to fly in a park.
Abel
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
The problem we have is more to do with our reclusive nature of most in the hobby. Flying fields are usually in BFE, behind locked gates and consequently public exposure is too low to provide the type of public interest necessary to foster public support and growth. The key would be to remove all the roadblocks possible so that the general public can be introduced to our great hobby.
The problem we have is more to do with our reclusive nature of most in the hobby. Flying fields are usually in BFE, behind locked gates and consequently public exposure is too low to provide the type of public interest necessary to foster public support and growth. The key would be to remove all the roadblocks possible so that the general public can be introduced to our great hobby.
Here's a quote from the Parks Dept concerning one of the newest parks in the area:
" One of the County's premier sports facilities, <park name> is nestled within a 25-acre community park near <community names>. This sports complex features five baseball/softball fields, five soccer/multipurpose fields, two tennis courts, two basketball courts, and a roller-hockey rink.
This complex is committed to serving the needs of recreational youth sports organizations. In doing so, it has adopted national youth sports standards for all organizations that are participating in programs at the park."
There seems to be a mindset that every park user is a youthful jock and needs to be involved in organized sports. The fields lie fallow most of the time, with barriers and signs up warning people to stay out. Changing that mindset is what is needed to promote aero modeling, not insurance, not membership in a national organization, not a one-size-fits-all definition of what is appropriate to fly in a park.
Abel
03-23-2008, 07:23 PM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
I think multiple AMA flying sites is a grand idea if it can be keep along the lines AMA has envisioned as per the current guidelines and SC.
No the AMA doesn't need to be in the real estate business, they should just stay put in Muncie and continue to deliver what they do best.
03-23-2008, 08:00 PM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: STLPilot
From what I read in these forums the AMA can hardly do anything right, but now you want them to get into the real estate business and compete with their own club sites?
I think multiple AMA flying sites is a grand idea if it can be keep along the lines AMA has envisioned as per the current guidelines and SC.
There would be absolutely nothing wrong with more AMA supported flying fields if somehow they could keep them from being under the control of people like you.
03-23-2008, 08:32 PM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: 804
Okay, but given that only about 5% of the population gives a cr@p about general aviation(other than a means to get to Grandma's or spring break), and probably 1% of that 5% cares about model aviation, how do we change the mindset?
Okay, but given that only about 5% of the population gives a cr@p about general aviation(other than a means to get to Grandma's or spring break), and probably 1% of that 5% cares about model aviation, how do we change the mindset?
a) Littlecrankshaf has made several posts about TUFF in Tyler, Tx and how it it has evolved. Have you read them?
b) Silent Electric Flyers of San Diego (SEFSD). Highly visible location next to Sea World in Mission Bay Park. Property is city owned park land and area is urbanized by anyone's measure. Only aspect missing from the mythical PPP flying site is arbitrary limits on model weight and speed. It possibly has the largest club membership in the county. AMA membership is required, but there was certainly no need for the lure of reduced AMA member fees ala PPP to attract club members. It has been in existence for many years, and I know from direct personal involvement that many newbies have first tried their wings there.
I'm sure there are many other examples that have this in common with those mentioned: they have been doing for quite a while what marketeers in Muncie only daydream about doing - establishing flying sites in urbanized areas, specifically in public parks, and attracting new folks into our hobby/sport.
Abel
03-23-2008, 10:03 PM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: STLPilot
From what I read in these forums the AMA can hardly do anything right, but now you want them to get into the real estate business and compete with their own club sites? Would that be just to confirm the so called "fact" that the AMA is a monopoly?
No the AMA doesn't need to be in the real estate business, they should just stay put in Muncie and continue to deliver what they do best.
I think multiple AMA flying sites is a grand idea if it can be keep along the lines AMA has envisioned as per the current guidelines and SC.
No the AMA doesn't need to be in the real estate business, they should just stay put in Muncie and continue to deliver what they do best.
There would be absolutely nothing wrong with more AMA supported flying fields if somehow they could keep them from being under the control of less than the hobby oriented instead of the control oriented.
03-23-2008, 10:05 PM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
No expert on that, but I do see some good examples of where it seems to be working. Here are two:
a) Littlecrankshaf has made several posts about TUFF in Tyler, Tx and how it it has evolved. Have you read them?
b) Silent Electric Flyers of San Diego (SEFSD). Highly visible location next to Sea World in Mission Bay Park. Property is city owned park land and area is urbanized by anyone's measure. Only aspect missing from the mythical PPP flying site is arbitrary limits on model weight and speed. It possibly has the largest club membership in the county. AMA membership is required, but there was certainly no need for the lure of reduced AMA member fees ala PPP to attract club members. It has been in existence for many years, and I know from direct personal involvement that many newbies have first tried their wings there.
I'm sure there are many other examples that have this in common with those mentioned: they have been doing for quite a while what marketeers in Muncie only daydream about doing - establishing flying sites in urbanized areas, specifically in public parks, and attracting new folks into our hobby/sport.
Abel
ORIGINAL: 804
Okay, but given that only about 5% of the population gives a cr@p about general aviation(other than a means to get to Grandma's or spring break), and probably 1% of that 5% cares about model aviation, how do we change the mindset?
Okay, but given that only about 5% of the population gives a cr@p about general aviation(other than a means to get to Grandma's or spring break), and probably 1% of that 5% cares about model aviation, how do we change the mindset?
a) Littlecrankshaf has made several posts about TUFF in Tyler, Tx and how it it has evolved. Have you read them?
b) Silent Electric Flyers of San Diego (SEFSD). Highly visible location next to Sea World in Mission Bay Park. Property is city owned park land and area is urbanized by anyone's measure. Only aspect missing from the mythical PPP flying site is arbitrary limits on model weight and speed. It possibly has the largest club membership in the county. AMA membership is required, but there was certainly no need for the lure of reduced AMA member fees ala PPP to attract club members. It has been in existence for many years, and I know from direct personal involvement that many newbies have first tried their wings there.
I'm sure there are many other examples that have this in common with those mentioned: they have been doing for quite a while what marketeers in Muncie only daydream about doing - establishing flying sites in urbanized areas, specifically in public parks, and attracting new folks into our hobby/sport.
Abel
I have read several posts about TUFF. It sounds like a great success story. But it seems sort of unique in a couple of ways. First, IIRC,people had been flying there for years, so it was sort of established. Then, they had a lot of like minded people willing to fight for a place to fly that was unlike the typical club scene.
As I've stated before in another thread, there is no place really like that around here. Every square inch is occupied by development, schools, retail, and a few small parks. All the open land is practically 24-7 recreation for kids.
So, what I'm wondering is whether it is a matter of changing the public's perception of us and trying to interest them in our hobby, which IMO is nearly impossible, or is it more a matter of yelling loud enough(figuratively speaking) long enough to be heard.
In any case, I think that strategy is better than paying AMA to build fields for us.
03-24-2008, 05:19 AM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
b) Silent Electric Flyers of San Diego (SEFSD). Highly visible location next to Sea World in Mission Bay Park. Property is city owned park land and area is urbanized by anyone's measure. Only aspect missing from the mythical PPP flying site is arbitrary limits on model weight and speed. It possibly has the largest club membership in the county. AMA membership is required, but there was certainly no need for the lure of reduced AMA member fees ala PPP to attract club members. It has been in existence for many years, and I know from direct personal involvement that many newbies have first tried their wings there.
I'm sure there are many other examples that have this in common with those mentioned: they have been doing for quite a while what marketeers in Muncie only daydream about doing - establishing flying sites in urbanized areas, specifically in public parks, and attracting new folks into our hobby/sport.
Abel
I'm sure there are many other examples that have this in common with those mentioned: they have been doing for quite a while what marketeers in Muncie only daydream about doing - establishing flying sites in urbanized areas, specifically in public parks, and attracting new folks into our hobby/sport.
Abel
But the AMA isn't supposed to build fields, the system worked perfect thanks to those guys in Muncie. BTW how did the SEFSD club here about the AMA and Muncie .... I can only suggest some kind of marketing system got the word out.
03-24-2008, 09:45 AM
#73
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: STLPilot
Marketeers in Muncie only dream about .... why do they have to dream, the SEFSD club is an AMA club ... it's theirs, Muncie holds their charter. Would that club even be there in the first place without the AMA? Well I guess either way the question is answered wouldn't matter, because the club is there and it is an AMA club. The AMA dream came true.
But the AMA isn't supposed to build fields, the system worked perfect thanks to those guys in Muncie. BTW how did the SEFSD club here about the AMA and Muncie .... I can only suggest some kind of marketing system got the word out.
b) Silent Electric Flyers of San Diego (SEFSD). Highly visible location next to Sea World in Mission Bay Park. Property is city owned park land and area is urbanized by anyone's measure. Only aspect missing from the mythical PPP flying site is arbitrary limits on model weight and speed. It possibly has the largest club membership in the county. AMA membership is required, but there was certainly no need for the lure of reduced AMA member fees ala PPP to attract club members. It has been in existence for many years, and I know from direct personal involvement that many newbies have first tried their wings there.
I'm sure there are many other examples that have this in common with those mentioned: they have been doing for quite a while what marketeers in Muncie only daydream about doing - establishing flying sites in urbanized areas, specifically in public parks, and attracting new folks into our hobby/sport.
Abel
I'm sure there are many other examples that have this in common with those mentioned: they have been doing for quite a while what marketeers in Muncie only daydream about doing - establishing flying sites in urbanized areas, specifically in public parks, and attracting new folks into our hobby/sport.
Abel
But the AMA isn't supposed to build fields, the system worked perfect thanks to those guys in Muncie. BTW how did the SEFSD club here about the AMA and Muncie .... I can only suggest some kind of marketing system got the word out.
Boy that sucking noise gets pretty loud some times.
You have missed the point Able was making. He pointed out that AMA was a requirement at SEFSD. It is requirement to be a TUFF club member as well.
The difference is that these clubs promote the hobby first and foremost instead of "marketing". We realize by promoting the hobby first some very valuable by-products are produced. This principle is not taught well enough in the hobby community and therefore not understood well within our little group…that is the very reason some people feel marketing is the answer…but of course they are wrong. IT is many times more effective to instill the desires to be apart of the hobby otherwise. Marketing isn’t the answer now, never was and never will be.
An Academy of sorts to teach the hobby community such things would be a great asset.
A dollar a day flying site will probably never happen but maybe it should be given a try somewhere...Hmmm...Maybe Muncie. The profits there could be used to finance other spots. I think day use fees of $10 per day or $365 or more per year wouldn't be a bad idea. I wonder why someone else hadn't thought of that??????
03-24-2008, 10:17 AM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
The difference is that these clubs promote the hobby first and foremost instead of "marketing".
A dollar a day flying site will probably never happen but maybe it should be given a try somewhere...Hmmm...Maybe Muncie. The profits there could be used to finance other spots. I think day use fees of $10 per day or $365 or more per year wouldn't be a bad idea. I wonder why someone else hadn't thought of that??????
But hey if it sounds like such a great idea, why don't you do just do it?
03-24-2008, 10:38 AM
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RE: Would you pay a dollar a day?
ORIGINAL: STLPilot
You forgot to say these "AMA clubs" promote the hobby first and foremost. Sounds to me the AMA system of supporting clubs instead of owning clubs ... worked.
You forgot to say these "AMA clubs" promote the hobby first and foremost. Sounds to me the AMA system of supporting clubs instead of owning clubs ... worked.
) by the AMA which is much different than what they really are. Keep tuning in and one day you may get it right.