What problems do you guys see within or of the AMA, that are directly caused by allowing the $1 youth and $28 Affiliate members to choose not to get MA Magazine...

That is, what problems does AMA have than can be solved by just requiring/mandating the Youth & Affiliate members to get MA at the current additional price?

These members are allowed to Opt Out of MA, what problems has that caused?

Seems to me it has only caused a bit of jealousy and animosity to wards our youth and international friends from a handful of AMA members. Ah to be young again ... what perks you get with that deal.

I am not saying this is the case or in anyway factual,

But in the case of the youth membership it could lead to a generation of members who don't understand the workings of the organization, and end up viewing AMA membership as an insurance policy.

I don't think there are any problems, rather a virtue. Otherwise, how would KidEpoxy amuse himself whilst waiting for the glue to dry on his B-24?

I can see where KidEpoxy is going to take this, you guys don't see what he's after here, but I do. What's going to happen is that everyone is going to come in and say "no problems". Then he's going to say ... see told you so, now lets do it for everyone.

But what he doesn't realize is that youth and International members are a MINORITY in this organization. Not that their voice does not count, but they should most absolutely be given more leeway within the organization since the kids are our future and the affiliates are spreading the word for us Internationally. As a minority of any organization you should always be given a little bit more room to have your minority to eventually become a majority.

Kid, you'll never get what you wish with this proposal, MA is a legacy in this organization and a higher voice then any other single voice in this organization by hundreds of folds.

IMHO, most $1.00 youth members are the children of $58.00 Open members. As the parent gets the Magazine, the youth does not need it, too.

If there is no Open member parent, we always encourage the youth to get the $15.00 membership, which includes the magazine. I suppose we will hear about that now, too.

Ken Erickson

Ken, I agree with you.

(Like your last name - we both share it!!)

MA has problems. The main thing that keeps MA from being fixed is the AMA it's self. However, as witnessed with the "flying for fun" column, age also helps expadite the problem. Now, I'm not trying to speak poorly about D.B., but he really isn't representing the "fun" crowd that I"m a part of. By "fun" I mean folks who just want to enjoy this hobby. I am sad that MA isn't replacing him with new blood. Maybe someone that D.B. could mentor into filling his huge shoes would be nice....

Enough with that.

The AMA also has problems connecting to the new generations. Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only person that even attempts to attract the younger crowd. If anything, they seem to be against the younger folks wanting to learn and blaming it on "video games". Instead, the AMA leaves these kind of pilots to find this hobby by chance.

These are the main pproblems that I see. But the real question should be "What does the AMA have for you?" Let's get away from all this complaining and have some fun. Go influence someone's life in a good way and you've made an impact in future generations. Go teach a kid to fly and you've helped the AMA out. Now what's so hard about that? You don't even need a plane to do it. My hanger is 860 miles away from me right now, but I just showed a young servicemember the joys of RC flying by exposing him to a video of Kyle Woyshnis flying. Who knows what you can do.

Merry Christmas!
50%

except for Youths & Affiliates?


I'm patient, I can wait a while before making my move.

Will it be 'Look at all the folks that say No Problem' ?
or will I say 'Look, nobody posted any problems caused by letting the Youth & Aliens Opt out' ?

Hard to tell which way it will go, but initial responses trend toward the No Posted Problems route.


So come on people-
Heads I win, Tails I win....
but you can get stuff off your chest about how the $1 and $28 guys are ruining AMA.

Open Mike thread : rant away against the AMA youths & aliens having the MA Option if you feel like it-
this thread is your chance to list off how letting them have the option has hurt AMA.

Did you not consider the EXTRA family membership @ $30 -- no magazine -- for a purpose?

IMO these memberships allowing no magazine do no damage to AMA or its magazine Model Aviation.

The $1 youth allows the teaching of kids about modeling with no extra baggage or expense and helps justify the educational IRC 501 (c) (3) educational status, plus Dad to have the kids at the field enjoying family recreation.

No need to make a visiting foreign national have to receive a bunch of magazines, or for AMA to pay to send them to "Tim-buck-to".

No need for wifey to have a second MA when Pop brings one into the house.

These 3 "opt-outs" create NO problems for AMA. To allow all to opt out would create a significant accounting and supply area with associated extra expense and another in-house bureaucracy.

To allow MA to continue within the current direction and operational status is going to be a major factor in the demise of AMA as we know it, or better -- knew it -- due to the entire structure that will exist by 2012. I have made that prediction in another thread. Unfortunately I firmly believe the die has been cast and as long as members cannot adequately function in the voting processes, no directional changes will be forthcoming.

"Did you not consider the EXTRA family membership @ $30 -- no magazine -- for a purpose? "

ooops, nope- not an intentional omission.
Just plain hadnt been talking about it as much as the others & slipped my mind.
Go ahead & include it in the germane of this thread, although is it technically a Category of Membership (full membership) like Open/ Youth/ Affiliate... still is same in effect.



edit: spelling made less horrific

Kid, besides the $14 it will save you, how will this help the AMA? That's what I've been trying to figure out. You've got NO arguement other then how it will save you a few bucks. Not good enough. You joined a club and every interest should be on behalf of the organization. So besides reducing the amount of information being passed, reducing overall AMA revenue streams, raising publishing rates and decreasing advertising revenues, how will it help everyone????

Would you even consider donating your magazine to someone else? Do you realize that if you donate your magazine to a NFP you can write off the full face value of the magazine? Face value is $54 for 12 months. You can also write off the gas or shipping it took to get it there. Just ask for a receipt. Better yet, just request they pick them up, we wouldn't want to burden you with having to do more work then picking up the phone to make a phone call.

What do you have against youth and International guests?

1. I do not pay $15 for a Youth Membership, so I cannot get the $14 difference. If I was paying the $15 Youth, I would already be allowed to Opt Out and would already be saving the $14. THEY, the $1Youth have no arguement other than saving THEM a few bucks- is that what you are sayiong STL? Are you calling the Youth greedy / selfcentered? I didnt say that about them, I asked folks to gripe, and you are obliging me.
I fail to see what the heck you are saying here.


2. " how will this help the AMA? "
That is exactly what I asked in post #1-
What is wrong with AMA that is due to allowing the $1 & $28 No Mag memberships?

First you have to find out if there is something wrong, before we can see if doing something helps.
If nobody can come up with anything wrong due to it, then there is nothing to fix by that change, and no reason to change the $1 & $28 guys.

This thread is suposed to be a place to determine what, if anything, is wrong due to the $1 & $28 guys opting out.
If there is nothing wrong because of it, say so.
If you feel there is something bad caused by it, say so.

If you want to speculate on how people that havent posted feel, go do it in some other thread. If you just want to call our youth members Greedy, do it in some other thread. If you want to speculate on changes to memberships of NON $1/$28/ ( & $30 ...thnx Hoss) folks do it in some other thread... there are plenty of threads for that one.

This is a Gather Data thread, the data is:
What folks feel is wrong due to the $1 & $28 guys (maybe the 30's too) not paying for MA.

$14 is the average cost per member of MA magazine, for all members. 9mil in revs divided by members, all members. Remember, membership based org. Everyone pays for everyone else, somehow, someway. Very common in all group memberships.

Nothing is wrong with it, it makes all the sense in the world. But having an opt-out for general membership, which is in the 95+% range, makes no sense.

Why not ceates a tier for members who do not compete? Why not create a tier people who don't need the insurance? Why not create a tier for people who don't want a magazine? Why not create a tier for people who don't visit the museum? Why not create a tier for people who don't want to create a flying club? Now we are no longer a membership organization, we are a single service provider. But this is not what the AMA does, we all do for all. You just don't want the part you don't like the least and it appears to effect your emotionally.

Did you have a problem with my donation question? A $54 writeoff can mean about $14 less in taxes you have to pay defendant upon your tax bracket. There is your $14 back and you actually did something to help your membership org.

"Did you have a problem with my donation question? A $54 writeoff can mean about $14 less in taxes you have to pay defendant upon your tax bracket."

I would be hard pressed to pay $14 less Income Tax, far more than fifty some odd dollars can adjust.

The reason I dont donate is the same as why most folks dont donate: I chose not to.
If I donate benefiting the AMA, I would surely donate to other far more relevant to me orgs like NRA, SAS, CRPA, 2ndATF, first. But since I cant afford to give to all the orgs that I would, AMA is way too far down the list to get preferential treatment.

Now that I have answered your OffTopic question, please stay on topic, refer to Post#1 if you are not sure what that is.

I fully understand your position now. You don't want to do any work for your MEMBERSHIP org, you want the AMA and the rest of the members to do for you. Message received. You have no idea what you signed up for, you just sent the check in. Next time read the bold print.

I don't have any problems with any of this! I also don't have any problems with the general membership having an opt out of the magazine, if they so desire. However, I don't think exersizing this option should necessarily provide a reduction in AMA membership dues. Sorry Kid, I'm just not going to let people have the savings of $14.00, $15.00, $18.00, $25.00 or whatever it really costs. They're just going to have to come up with another way to pay for their one very inexpensive trip to the hobby shop!

ModeOne

Just to be clear-
Are you saying you are against letting the Overseas guys save $60 if they choose to not recieve MA- reducing their Dues from $88 to $28?

Are you against letting the Youth get their dues dropped from $15 to $1 if they opt out?

You said you didnt have any problem with any of this, but then I get lost when you say no dues drop for opting out.... please just tidy up my understanding of your post

I don't see how what I said could be confused. To reiterate and attempt to clear it up; 1). I have no problem with how it is arranged now. 2). I have no problem with general membership opting out of reciiveing the magazine. However, I'm not of the opinion that if you opt out of getting MA, there should be a reduction in membership dues!

Now, if your going to expect me to explain why I don't think opting out should save those whom do $14.00, $15.00, $18.00, $25.00 or whatever the amount, your going to have to be satisfied with that just being what I think.

I hope this clears up my position for you.

Great answer, spoken like a true member of an organization.

How about this idea, how about an opt-out which will redirect your magazine to a charity like the boy scouts or something which you can check off right on the membership application.

These are solutions on how to improve your organization Kid, instead of just stripping them from the club. But since your true love is the NRA and not the AMA, how many kids have you encouraged to fire off some rounds this year?

This, from someone, who six months ago was all in favor of, more, was demanding a tiered membership, to enable the so called, "Urban Flyers", to get in at a lower cost. Dion, you should get into politics. We never know what side of the coin will show whenever you post. Never a dull moment.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
J.R.T. Member #4

Yeah Bill that's called adding something new to the AMA, not taking away something that's been around for many years. The e-ticket is a solution which captures a market that the AMA does not have, but only wishes they could get. Taking away a magazine, is simply just taking it away. The last thing the AMA needs is the ability to provide members a with a solution that reduces anything from this organization.

Now having your magazine mailed to the Boy Scouts is only re-distributing and hopefully trying to capture a new member. That's a solution that increases awareness and gives a member the ability for members to live up to this AMA Ambassador thing they keep talking about, but have yet to be seen.

The AMA is going to be forced to jump on the e-bus whether they want too or not. Us Urban flyers will inherit the earth as we are 99% of the way there now, we just need a solution to fly our planes in more dense locations and then it's all ours. The e-ticket idea was brilliant but opposed by non urban fliers who only care about what goes on outside the areas of mixed populations and density.

And if you think I'm for tiered memberships, the irony is that you guys that were against tiered memberships are now all of a sudden proposing them, so whose the one holding the 2 headed coin?? Oh and for the record, I never pitched the e-ticket idea, the AMA did.

If you are going to fight for this dumb idea, do the same thing for the insurance, that's the last thing that I need from the AMA, I enjoy the magazine the most, it's the only thing that I can see and touch from the AMA other then my card. Blows away every other RC rag.

Read the post Dion,

I have never been in favor of a teired membership, in any form. Not in fovor of it now either. Pay the 58 bucks, or see ya. Your choice.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
J.R.T. Member #4

Well… its finally settled...Kid will send you his magazine and you pay for half his membership.

Thank goodness, for awhile I thought things were hopeless.

Behold: The Great Mediator has reached a way to settle it in Win-Win-Win, STL gets the MA, I get a discout, & RCUmembers get a break(from listening to us). Good job LCS, we should have you take care of the mideast monkeybusiness.

LCS, get STL to send the check to you, & I will send you the MA, and you can continue your PeaceKeeping mission.



Mode One-
no, I'm not going to preach about it here, I really did just want it more explicitly stated, thanx for the response. We can debate it in the Opt Out MA Poll thread if you want to.... but you knew that.