Interesting question, but I am also not sure what it amount to. As land near cities becomes more valuable our hobby will get pushed out. Heck, even if we "owned" the land, our wonderful supreme court has already ruled that localities can take it, give it to someone else, just to increase their tax revenue.

I'm pretty sure the data would show more losses than gains, but I don't think it would be able to show why...lack of AMA effort or just money hungry localities.

The AMA is way behind in aquiring land for model sites, but at the same time, when it is brought up here most of the posters are against it. Look at how many people p&m about the one national flying site the club does own!

Not sure about the data, but I think the AMA itself has admitted it has less chartered clubs.

Some of the guys from the NVRC club have been going up to Martinsburg to fly.. My friends really enjoy them coming up. They say that when they show up it's like a fly in and they have a lot of fun!!!!

Good points there P-51B. While I don't think AMA will ever be a giant land-owner, it could well be a viable assistant in helping Clubs become landowners themselves.

Now consider the Quebec thread in the Clubhouse forum:

>>>>http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_57...t;<<<

From the newspaper item referenced there:
>>>>>>>
CTV Montreal News Staff

"Club Brossair operates on a small piece of farmland in Brossard, but the Quebec government says the club doesn't have the right to be there."

" A South Shore club for remote control plane enthusiasts is in danger of shutting down. Club Brossair operates on a small piece of farmland in Brossard, but the Quebec government says the club doesn't have the right to be there. Club Brossair members have been flying small planes over the field for 23 years, with the landowner's permission. "There's been no complaints whatsoever to the police," said Bob Forest of the Model Aeronautics Association. "No problems of noise or pollution or just bad activity, you know what I mean, there's been nothing here." Nevertheless, a goverment commission says flying planes above the field violates agricultural zoning laws.
Club Brossair's founder says that's ridiculous. "You have a field right now that's not even being harvested for anything," said Benny Milhomme. "Come in a couple of months and you'll see it's full of weeds." The government recently shut down two other flying clubs in Napierville and Marieville. Club Brossair is asking for a public consultation on the issue, in the hopes of convincing the government this land can be used for a lot more than agriculture. "
<<<<<

With what's happening in this country now, don't think it can't happen here. We need a PRO-ACTIVE AMA. That means an AMA with a Non-Profit Foundation and a working AMA. If there is ONE TRUTH it is that EMOTION and "should be" will not accomplish anything. Only HARD WORK and "GIT "ER DONE' will accomplish something. So let's "GIT 'ER DONE!" [sm=48_48.gif]

NOMINATE HORRACE D. CAIN, AMA L-93, for AMA PRESIDENT. DO IT TODAY. Email Mary Lou @ [email protected]

I wonder if this would be as big a problem if the ama headquarters was still in reston?

They are also flying as guests at one our clubs fields. Good group of guys.

It may have still been a problem, but there would have been three large advantages.

1. They (the leadership) would be more in-tune with the realities of land availability for flying.
2. They could more effectively lobby on a national level.
3. They would still own the land and have a flying site where there are other things to do for the family...oh, and if they sold that land now, they could by 6 or 7 completly furnished Muncie sites.

I don't know of any situations like this.......... where the Modelers won.

Break out the electric helicopters.........!!!!!!!!!

However a movement by modelers in Pennsylvania had the STATE incorporate "
flying sites into the state park system, now there is less of a problem.

This might help.

1. The only way anyone can be in tune with available land is to tour the countryside. That "land available" changes and sometimes waits for years then changes very rapidly. 11 years ago I bought a 100 acre tract for 2500 dollars per acre cash. (I sold Jetero RC Club 30 acres at same price and hold mortgage so we could fly). 20 months ago the 70 acres was professionally appraised at $3100 per acre. Now I am selling a few acres for $5000 per acre and was planning to sell more until 6 acres across the road sold for $10,000 per acre. I had a conversation with a real professional in the area. He told me of a plan for 7,500 homes just a couple miles away within the next five years. I'm now back in the "hold" mode.

2. AMA ,as now organized cannot officially "Lobby" as a non profit. They can present their case, but cannot "lobby":
>>>: to conduct activities aimed at influencing public officials and especially members of a legislative body on legislation
transitive senses 1 : to promote (as a project) or secure the passage of (as legislation) by influencing public officials
2 : to attempt to influence or sway (as a public official) toward a desired action <<<<<

3.Unfortunately, AMA was not on the wave's crest when they sold the office building in Reston, nor did they have the best of advice. They sold at a loss.
There was no flying site associated with the AMA Headquarters in Reston. Just an office building.

Gentlemen: I beg of you, Please do not place yourself in Fantasy Land. Considering that the average RCer cannot understand having to pay $50 club dues and/or $58 AMA due, one must remember that as a group RCers act like paupers until they see some model, some engine, some radio or group of each or case of goodies they don't need, whereas they suddenly strike the mother-lode and will sell the homestead to buy whatever they want.

In any case we can evidence in this AMA forum, as well as our association with others around the modelers that we associate with, that there is no way in this lifetime, definitely mine, and I'm betting yours, that AMA will ever be a large landowner able to own land for flying facilities throughout the nation to any degree, especially within range of YOUR place.
It isn.t feasable, it isn't within the economics, and it 'ain't gonna' happen. One of the first methods to get something accomplished is to recognize one's capability. The model aviation community simply does NOT have such capability.

I just left that part of the country, and I have been to that clubs old flying field I feel for these guys.
Not all noise complaints go against RC clubs. I know of one that went for the club even though it shut em down for about 45 days. land for flying in the DC area is disappearing quickly.
I used to belong to a club in Fredericksburg that a land owner shot down a model.(before my time).
Anyway all clubs that don't own their land need to always have an alternate site in mind.
I wish them all the luck in the world

All that made good sense to me. Even if a site was purchased by the Club or AMA, unless it was extremely large there would be the overfly problem. I know of at least two clubs in differen areas where the landowners adjacent to a flying site took extreme measures to halt overflights. One case ended upwith the court siding with the RCer's, and the other against them. Neither case was a pleasant experience. Even now our club pays for "overfly" privilages, the lessor calls it "crop damage insurance". You do what you have to do I guess.

This really bites the big one. What you really need is a group of horse owners who also fly r/c, and get them to mediate between the horse-only and r/c-only groups. These people DO exist, I am one and I know several others in my area (Western NC) I understand horses, and can see that there will be problems flying around them. The problem exists because the horses using this park for a large part will be stabled and pastured elsewhere, and won't have the constant exposure to the noise and other aspects of the r/c planes. As stated before, horses are prey animals and it is genetically wired in them to mistrust anything that they are not constantly exposed to. Even the act of a person sitting on their back is unnatural, and you can ask anyone that rides how a horse reacts when it hasn't been ridden in a long time.

If these horses were pastured next to the flying field, it wouldn' take more than a week to condition them to the point where they wouldn't pay any attention at all to the planes. My horses went crazy when my next door neighbor started riding his motocross bike in his field next to my pasture, but it only took a couple of days before they didn't even raise their heads when he was out there. While I can understand the horseowner's concern, it's like anything else for them to work through. If the horse trusts its rider, there won't be any problems. If the horseowners can't control thir mounts, the real problem lies with them, without even the consideration of r/c planes. How about the occasional snake in the trail, or water hazard, or even another horse? These can also create problems, yet the horseowner has't demanded all snakes to be exterminated, or the creeks dried up before they can ride.

I'm firmly in the r/c'ers camp on this land use issue. There is plenty of land for the horse rider there, and for a flying area as well. After all, the planes will spend most of their time where the horses can't go anyway. The big responsibility for the r/c crowd will be to steer as clear of the riders as possible when they fly, just as they would for a hiker or anyone else.

But as Horace stated back when, money will talk, and without a powerful lobby to counter it, I'm afraid the equestrian bunch will win. Is AMA doing anything to help make your voice louder?

He he, that must be true, because the wave has not crested here yet. That is one thing about the DC metro area, while you hear about a "housing bubble burst" going on, the prices keep going up here. It may take a month to sell instead of a week, but sell it will.

Hoss, are you sure about the lack of flying site? I seem to remember photos in the AMA magazine years...and years ago of "flying at the Reston site". Nevertheless, the building alone would likely still cover a good chunk of several sites these days.


Sorry, I will have to stay in fantasy land and hope the AMA wakes up and realizes that a series of AMA regional and eventually state flying sites should be the number one priority, with media attention being the second. It won't matter if we attract new members if there is no place to fly.

Unfortunately, the current "now" generation that doesn't understand working for something over time is whose shoulders on which it will come to rest. I hold little hope, but a little hope is better than giving up.

You would need to ask the officers of the club in question if they have enlisted any assistance from AMA.

Horses is the "excuse "being used to get rid of an activity that some influencial a*****e is using because he / she dosen't like RC ers. We fly on a farm where our flight pattern is less than 200 feet from a paddock / coral where three or more horses are kept. The owners of these horses ride with in 100 feet of our runway and have never...NEVER had a problem with the horses being spooked or even taking notice of the aircraft... We have more problems with so called civilized educated humans than we ever have with animals. One of the clubs has a runway that terminates at an irrigation pond, that in season is a resting / feeding place for migrating waterfowl. Flying planes have not stopped them from landing and using the pond, we even take off and land float planes while they stay on thier side of the pond and we ours. We, as responsible flyers respect thier airspace, and do not agrivate them. They in turn avoid our aircraft. If some "do-gooders" would just mind thier own business we could all get along....

There have been attempts over the years to get a field at the Hanson Dam Recreation Area in Los Angeles. This is about eight miles from Sepulveda Basin, and would go a long way to easing the over-crowding at that site. Like the Basin, this is a flood control plain that is undevelopable. This would make it ideal as an RC venue. Unfortunatly, a group of horse people have continiously shot it down.

Remember, we are a bunch of people who want to exercise our God given right to use valuable real estate for free. We often share this trait with horse people. Our interests may colide, but name calling does nothing to help our negotiating position.

It would be nice if the AMA were a 500 lb gorilla in Washington like the oil and drug companies, but they(we) are not. Even if we were, these are almost always local issues that need to be dealt with locally.

I got pretty dissilusioned with the RC community up there. How could they get along with those they compete with for open space, when the cannot even get along among themselvs?

Funny how common this seems to be.

We have a club in the San Joaquin County area that has lost use, temporarily I hope, of a new field they only just started using.

As I understand it there is one individual with horses waaaay off in the distance that has complained of the planes bothering the horses waaaay over there. I believe they are cleaning up some paperwork pertaining to permits and applications and such and after that, if all goes well, they should have use of the field again. I hope.

We had a local group flying out of a parcel of land owned by a local college. It was set back over 500' from the road, and screened by a stand of large free growing trees. It was lost because a couple horse owners wanted to ride on the runway area. Sound or the idea of the plane being interpreted as predators by the horses never entered into the question. The horse owners wanted to be able to ride on our cleared and leveled runway anytime they wanted, even if we were flying. The fact that there was almost a 1000' to the west of our pits was errelevant. When they couldn't get get their way, they contacted some friends who lived just across the road from the fields access road. Shortly after a flyer turned onto the access road, along came a Sherriff's car to respond to a noise complaint. The officer's personally felt that the people complaining should be arrested for false reports, because the officers could never hear rhe noise until they got onto the field itself.

The township kicked us out on the basis of the number of complaints.

At my current club's last field, it was not uncommon to have various types of raptors, including a young bald eagle fly around with the planes. We even had several nests of some type of bird that was on some kind of protected list nest on the borders of the field in the landing and take-off approach areas. We frequently had deer come out of the woods and appear to relax and watch the flying. Rabbits wold run across the field, staying out of the way of taxiing or other operating planes. Buzzards and hawks would sometimes even circle in thermals alonside gliders and my SAM old timers. On our new field, we have a similar situation. The only thing in the area birds and animals seem to avoid is the Metropark bike path that runs along our East boundary. In fact as far as the planes scaring off bids? we have actually had red tails stoop on and engage some of the smaller planes in mock dog fights. They'd stoop on the plane and pull up just before actually hitting.

Also, as far as horses being scared of planes, our property owner not only keeds a couple horses not 300' from the backside of our pits, these horses have been ridden up to us and left ground tethered with not only no signs of panic, also not even any signs of paying attention to the planes.

If you want to keep a field in the DC area, make sure you have a senator or congressman in the club. You will not win any battles otherwise. As for Oregon, with all the jumping up and down by everyone to maintain all the open space there you would think it would be fairly easy to get a flying site. Tell the city fathers you want to grow some dope alongside the field and they'll likely grant the field in a heartbeat. At least in Oregon anyway.

As for the location of the AMA when all the parks were being laid out in all the new residential areas, a better question might be where were all the members when it came time to let the AMA know what was going on? Better still, where were those same members when all the city council meetings were held? Y'all really believe that the AMA maintains a staff of thousands to run around checking each and every civic calendar?