The hobby has changed in the last few years. Not to long ago, there was a partnership between the chartered club, the members and the local hobby shop (LHS). ARF's of quality are something that is relatively new to the hobby. The time was that you bought a kit, the LHS helped with advice and construction. The LHS, in many cases, actually taught you to fly. As a new member, by the time you were ready to go to the field, you had literally hundreds of hours in your model.

Now, kits are disappearing at an alarming rate. Quality ARF's that require only a few hours of labor are available. Where it used to take a pretty aggressive commitement to modeling, now all that is required is about $500 and a whim.

In the past, after you had several hundred hours invested, it did not seem as unreasonable to spend some time learning to fly with friends you had developed while you were building. The fear of destroying all that work created a very different mind set than we have today. The newbie wants instant gratification. That is not necessarily a bad thing, just a fact.

When you show up at the field with a plane, you find someone that will take the time to teach you. In most cases, several hours are spent correcting setup problems with the plane. The newbie feels put off. Often he must spend those hours, then return home to make more adjustments, and the engine has still never run. Finally, the plane is airworthy. The instructor takes it up and flys it. Usually, additional adjustments are necessary. Finally, the newbie gets to try his plane. The instructor by now, has several hours invested. Probably something he has done time and again. To be honest, it's a boring process once you have done it a couple of times... in the eyes of the instructor. The newbie, on the other hand is excited. Now you have to share time with your instructor's desire to do some flying of his own and instructing you. Frustrating.

A lot of that frustration never existed when you built the plane from a kit. Again, things are different now. Anyway, you learn to fly. Well, some are not as enthused as others about the experience. The bottom line is that we have almost a 25% turnover in the membership of the AMA each year now. The instructor, over the last few years, begins to wonder if his efforts are worth it. It is one thing to teach someone and have them become an enthusiast and another to see him leave after a couple of months.

Paid training may be an answer, but insurance and other considerations stand in the way of this becoming mainstream.

A lot of the attitude of new members toward elections is directly related to the way in which they enter the hobby. You buy your way in now, the plane, the club membership and the AMA membership. Everything is disposable. I am not sure what the numbers are for those that make it past the first year. I can tell you that those that fly on a regular basis at my club, and this is from observation and not scientific, are either relatively new or flying kits. Those that try to stay with ARF's over a period of time seem to disappear. Realistically, in my opinion, anyway, it takes a couple of years for the newbie to reach a level of skill where he begins to look around for the other benefits the AMA has to offer, such as sanctioned contests. Very few become interested in Pattern, or Scale or Pylon or any of the rest of it until they have the basic skills to compete. Then the rest of the AMA world comes into focus, including the politics.

JR

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Unfortunately, this is too true! There are a lot of new members who will only look to the ARF and after they ask for help, and can get it but it isn't instant or on their scedule, go out and try it themselves. They end up breaking the plane and get frusterated. Then they quit. A lot are also afraid to ask.

I have a new member that calls me every few days to start prepping me that he is going to ask for help saturday at the field. We got him soloed and he has made some of the most amazing advances in the last couple weeks. He is building his second plane and is having so much fun with the hobby. I was following him in tight formation landings this weekend. He was doing so well. Watching his progress and having him bug me to go to the field when I wouldn't have made it, with his new found excitement is what makes it all worthwhile. I hope he keeps calling and making me make time to go. It is great to see someone actually enjoy it that much.

Unfortunately, most don't have the patients.

I opened a hobby shop last year therefore thought it best to investigate the state of the hobby from a industry member's point of view. Business 101.

I've been into local government politics, which is not unlike that of the clubs and AMA. People are people in or out of this modeling organization.

nascarjoe

As a new guy on the flight line I think all the guys who whine about the amount they pay to AMA ought to quit flying. The AMA has led in the field of R/C flying for many years and done many good things to promote and preserve what is becoming my favorite hobby and I have no qualms about pating X amount of dollars to enjoy it. I couldn't buy one piece of equipment( besides a cheap servo) for the money it cost me to belong to AMA and am proud to be a dues payin member of such a good organization. Nuff said

I've read several times about a new modeling organization called the UMA. I would consider that an alternative to AMA, but it seems that no one wants to talk about it. If all one wants is insurance, it would seem that way to go.

I'm new to all of this, but it appears that politics once again rules over common sense. I was involved in local city government and it seems that even trying to enjoy this hobby, I can't get away from petty politics. Instead of complaining about AMA, join UMA, especially, if you don't care to compete and/or have your own property to fly on. Someone said that the property owner isn't covered with UMA, I talked to the founder of UMA and he assures me that EVERYONE on the field is covered...period.

Taking an objective opinion, people have said that AMA has a lot to offer, but as far as beginners learning how to fly goes, AMA has little to nothing to offer. All of the beneifits that AMA offers the experienced flier, means nothing to those who cannot find readily available instruction. Even from the good clubs who offer instruction once a week, altough they mean well, is simply not nearly enough help the hobby shop owner claimed/insinuated would be available. This is what I read is typical of the training process in the good clubs, and ethically should be posted on the hobby shop owner's counter: http://webhome.idirect.com/~ironsidz/instructor.htm

I own a hobby shop and if I posted this "truth" for my beginner customers to see, I would most definitely lose a lot of business.

nascarjoe

The AMA is not simply an insurance provider. If that were the case, there would be a bunch of companies providing it.
But while we are talking about insurance, let me offer this. Clubs requiring AMA membership ENSURES without a doubt that the person flying at your field is covered in the event something happens. Yes, it's secondary. But if a pilot has no other coverage, it is primary and it means that should ANYTHING happen, the club, the field and the landowner are covered. Remember, for the most part we fly at fields that exist by the grace of some nice person to whom we have promised coverage should something happen. Having someone show up to the field without AMA and letting him fly is a crap shoot. Sure, you could ask him if he has insurance. What's he going to say? Sure! My homeowner's policy will cover me. Are YOU positive about that? It's not a given. Renter's insurance? Does he even HAVE any? AMA membership removes ANY doubt.
That having been said, the AMA provides a LOT more. The reason we have frequencies that are essentially free of interference is because of the AMA. The reason we have the equipement we do is because of the events that the AMA has sanctioned and sponsored over the years. YES! By GOD yes, I know that the AMA is not the ONLY reason these events exist but they HAVE played a MAJOR role. Take a look at turbines. Had the AMA not taken the lead in regulating the turbine aspect, I shudder to think what could have (and yet still has occasionally) happened with accidents.
When legal issues directly related to our sport arise, we have the AMA to go to bat for us. Many clubs throughout the country have the AMA to thank for their flying fields. The AMA has edcational programs for school aged kids, the FUTURE of our sport. The AMA has a magazine that keeps all its members informed of the goings on in our sport. It introduces hobbiests to some of the OTHER aspects of our sport.
So those of you that simply want to "go and fly", let's not forget that the reason you CAN is largely in part because of the AMA, not inspite of it.

Nik,
To be fair, no modeling organization has what the newbie (my newest and most prevelant customer) needs most which is the excellent after purchase customer service of readily available on-demand flight instruction.

As I said before, all the benefits AMA or any modeling organization offers, is well and good for those who already know how to fly, but these benefits mean zilch to the grounded newbie. AMA says to send them to a club for help, but my customers come back to complain to me and other hobby shop owners and not the AMA when that help isn't available. Now if AMA could do something about that, the beginner who is most likely the silent majority in this hobby, would whole heartedly praise AMA.

nascarjoe

J_R relates to us:
Very good post! Time was, way back when, one made the committment to build a plane (or buy a used trainer), get involved with a flying group and learn flight. Nowadays, the trend is to plunk down the plastic, get an ARF, and the expectation seems to be that they want to be taught, and taught now, to fly.

Don't get me wrong, there are still a lot of new flyers who are enthusiastic and dedicated and want to "work their way up", but the "instant gratification crowd" is just more memorable, in the short term.

<sigh>, guess I'm becoming a curmudgeon...

You want AMA to furnish a program for your customers. I don't have customers however I want a program to help newbies.
Why, because I have spent too many hours bringing newbies to well qualified new RC PILOTS, (better than get it up and get it down) and then they do it for a year or two and move on to something else.
I don't owe my life to someone else. Therefore if you trades-people would get something together and pressure the lazy AMA animal called Executive Council, then perhaps the AMA just might move to honor and provide for the PAID PROFESSIONAL FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR.
Clubs should be able to have and provide such for the newbies under a fully recognized and insured status.
The ball is in the court of the industry. Go talk with the management of *great pains* and get them into something other than cutting your throat.
As I said in another post the Golfer does not spend his day on the links trying to teach others the sport. The Bass Fisherman goes out to please himself, not the person with pole and bobber sitting on the boat ramp.
I'm more than burned out trying to satisfy curiosities of those with some new "Cool" toy.
PAID FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR AMA recognition was needed a LONG time ago.

Horrace utters:

That is because, traditionally, flight instruction has been on the basis of an appreticeship, not an obligation. When I got started years ago, we went out to the field, helped, watched, flew and watched more. I don't mind helping someone, but it 's volunatry and ain't an entitlement program.

Maybe nowadays, a "PPFI" is appropriate...

nascarjoe

In an older time, the LHS priced it's products for newbies. The price of a plane included flight training by the hobby shop. As the newbies gained experience they were given 'deals' on their purchases at the LHS. I can remember going out with the owner of one shop and 5 or 6 new students a couple of times a month and spending the day watching him teach (and of course, flying myself). The planes had already been into the shop after completion and all of the little things that take so much time at the field, for an instructor, had been done.

There was a loyalty of customers that has not been seen for years. Most customers would pay a little more than what they did for mail order after they became 'experienced' flyers, thus allowing the LHS to compete against that market.

You have to realize that the AMA is a fraternal organization. It charters clubs, but, does not tell the clubs how they must be run. Some clubs actively teach and others do not. It is strictly a function of the club and it's members.

I agree with Horrace that the AMA should address the issue of paid training. There are issues about insuring folks for a profit that would have to be addressed, but, they do not seem insurmountable.

JR

Right answer, but, to the wrong question. UMA wants you to buy a regular policy for the landlord with all of it's exclusions. The AMA offers different coverage to the landlord than to the membership or the club. For further details, read the 2003 Club recharter package on the AMA web site. The AMA policy and the UMA policy for the landlord are both primary. The limits are not the same.

Your question to UMA was a little like asking "do you have life insurance?" and getting a yes answer, and then finding out that the life insurance was for accidental death only, not a full life insurance policy.

JR

Our Club the (Shawnee Mission Radio Control Club ) have for many years trained new pilots for free with membership to the club and of course the AMA. We close the field to normal flying every Tuesday night , one group of instructors inspect the aircraft and teach set-up , then the pilots give flight instruction . This is also in cooperation with one of the LHS which gives a little discount on supplies and such. I feel the time of the LHS giving instructions died when the Mom and Pop shops died. As we have stated many times the hobby has become a recreational activity, there is very little pride involved with owning an ARF, and even less gratification in flying one, but it is still FUN. I built every plane I owned up until a couple years ago when I decided to give ARF and OPs(other peoples) a try. Untill you have built and flown your own creation you will not understand the differance. This does not mean the Recreational hobbyist or ARFs are not important to Model Aviation, And I certainly don't mean builders are any better people than recreational hobbyists. And although I understand times change I don't feel we should have to Cater to the wants of some of the Recreational Pilots to learn fast and right now. If new people can't show a little patients then they are not going to last in this hobby anyway. I've put up with alot of BS from students wanting to learn to do loops and rolls before they can even do a figure 8 or straight and level flight , these are not people that want to learn Model Aviation, they want to do whats Cool at the time , they will get bored and move on to something else before the seasons over, I wonder many times why I waste my time. Anyhow this turned more into a vent than a constructive post, Anyway my point being I don't believe the AMA can do much for training on a national basis, it can help to set up more training programs on local levels ,but that requires the club and members to want to do it .

I resent the slams against the ARF flyers in this post.When I was a kid I built many tissue paper and dope airplanes and know how long it took to build my last one a P51 CL that lasted 2 weeks before it went down in flames I could have cried but tried to rebuild it to say the least it was never the same. I am now 47 have 2 kids, full time 2nd shift job and own 2 arfs (Avistar RTF and Ultra Stick 40) and an auction bought GP Extra 300 kit that was built by someone who knew his stuff. I take great pride in my aircraft. I no longer have the many hours to build from scratch as I have my grandmother to take care of the kids ,wife and job too but I try to get to the field as much as possible. I solo'ed last year and really enjoy the time I spend tryin to avoid making yard darts out of my planes. But the one thing I enjoy the most is the time I get to spend with the "Old Guys" who share tales of woe and enlightenment at every opportunity. Yes we at the Flying Aeros Assoc(FAA imagine that) do lack trainers too but if you are patient and show some interest in doing things right someone will eventually hold your hand. It is truely a club and the people who are in it should have a say in who gets solo'ed too many Idiots got a few bucks in their pockets and wanna be IMAC champions but cant even tell you what throw or CG means. So just lay off the ARF guys we try as hard as anyone else to be good members of this sport and are not all bad.P.S. I got both my boys learning to fly my Avistar now and they will be the future of this great hobby/sport we enjoy.

No resentment of ARFS or ARF pilots intended what-so-ever, As stated I fly ARFS myself and O.P.s , Just purchased a G202 ARF at Toledo a few weeks ago, The thing is it will look just like the 500 other G202s from the same maker, it does take some ability to understand directions to assemble it , but it takes building experience or at least some kind of model experience to know what bad things to look for and correct. IF someone comes up to me and says "NICE PLANE" I'll say thanks but I will say to myself , Thanks for what ?, I didn't really build it, I didn't cover it, I had nothing to do with its look with the exception of assembly, And I will say their is something to say for assembling them clean and straight. I look at it as the same as buying a vehicle , someone says nice truck, well it looks just like the thousands of other Red Dodge Rams. Yes it hurts to see many hours of labor turned into a Pile of Balsa , But when I turned an ARF into pile if scrap the only real loss FELT was not being able to fly anymore that day, in less than a week I can have another just like it flying. I would gladly take the hurt of crashing my creation for the great feeling of seeing it fly. My solution to finding time to build was building smaller planes.

The statements about ARFS are intended to show the change in the hobby and attitudes of the people getting into it. Those that stick with it and pass on their knowledge be it flying , assembling ARFS or building kits is not who anybody is refering to. These will always be what keeps the hobby growing . But there is a large number (NOT EVERY, NOT ALL) of people who just want the instant thrill and have no patients to learn why and how it works, they simply want to do it now, and in many cases instructors are getting tired of devoting time to someone who really dosen't care, but what can you do, I guess we just have to take the good with the bad . In the past, the ones who were willing to spend the time to learn to build and set up be prepared were the ones who in MOST cases were going to stick with the hobby. I think you would have to agree that a large number of the people getting started now with ARFS will not stay with it long. There is a good thing to all the Fly-it- Now crowd, Sales are up for all equipment which keeps prices down for the most part. Otherwise the basic computer radios would still cost $500 or more. ARFS have been a great growth tool and will continue to be so, But the fact is there is a different crowd of people that come with it, non of which are Bad just differant.

Dave Bowles, post 38: "....I wonder many times why I waste my time. Anyhow this turned more into a vent than a constructive post, Anyway my point being I don't believe the AMA can do much for training on a national basis, it can help to set up more training programs on local levels ,but that requires the club and members to want to do it ."

Dave Bowles, post 40: "....they simply want to do it now, and in many cases instructors are getting tired of devoting time to someone who really dosen't care, but what can you do, I guess we just have to take the good with the bad . "

Mr. Dave: While I have no disagreement reference your discussion (my perception of your 2 posts #ed above was a discussion, not a case of put-down / fault finding with anyone or anything) I was interested in the quoted remarks, very much like which I have been preaching for sometime.

As I repeatedly state, this is a new world of modeling -- if you call it modeling -- that is unlike anything that I grew up with. As you say, it is a recreational activity that will come, be used, and put away with the remainder of the out-grown toys.

The demand for certain RC pilots to constantly devote their time to teach others has reached a level beyond any reasonable degree.

Mr. Dave you seem to say that AMA can't do anything to change this. Here, I disagree as the solution is so very simple. All AMA has to do is set up the Insurance program to recognize the PAID FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR
For several years we in my club allowed -- rather looked the other way -- when an individual solicited newbies for teaching for pay. Being on a disability, it was kind of OK if no money was crossing the table where all could see. Kind of like those places where you go buy some tickets which can be traded for the beer at the wagon.
Our club roster stayed plenty full to pay our bills, even though the turnover was high.
As AMA rule stuff got more and more, we finally stopped the paid instruction on Club property. He continued at some outlaw fields until he was able to return to full time work.

Who lost the most? The Club lost. This guy solicited newbies through the LHSs and none ever joined the club. We lost that revenue. DON'T DEMEAN THE INDIVIDUAL, HE WAS SIMPLY MAKING A $ ON THE SIDE.
There are a couple of us that do a lot of instructing, out of a 100+ member club as the turnover is still high. I'm burned out on it.
OTOH a high turnover isn't all bad. I met a guy on a county-board that said he flew RC for several years and really had fun. These kind will favor a club shopping for a flying site.

AMA has a responsibility, like a BYLAWS purpose(Art.II) to promote model aviation. AMA has a responsibility to the Charter Clubs as the Bylaws state (Art. III, Section2) the Charter Club to be the local division of AMA.

AMA provides PRIMARY Insurance for the site owner (in my club's case the club IS the site owner). AMA can provide whatever service like this that the Executive Council so desires.

Now since the vast majority of RCers do not either care to be real Instructors or lack the ability to be, then it is time that the AMA EC recognizes PAID Instructors and provides insurance for both the Individual -- be he professional or just trying to make a buck like so many garage shop modelers -- and insurance for the Club when such instruction is being done.

This will only happen when leading RCers demand that the AMA EC address the new RC World of today rather than the hobbyists of just 15 years ago. We cannot continue to live in the past.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PS: I don't want any PAY. I just want to get back to doing my thing and let someone else help newbie. Pay may well be their motivator.

I think Horrace has defined the situation very well. R/C as a recreation is taking over R/C as a hobby. When we look at other areas of recreation, golf, skiing, sailing, scuba diving - all seem to depend on paid instruction. We (the AMA) should recognize the the opportunity and get with the program.

Red S.

I am Most open to give anything a try , Heck , I wouldn't mind getting a little green for my time, and I have no idea how it would work out one way or the other, I have been given things in the past by folks I have helped out, I kind of liked the you scratch my back I'll scratch yours way of doing things but nothing wrong with scratching the Palm of the hand. The only question I have is who would be the one in charge of the instruction, As a volunteer I am the one who pretty much dictates how I will be teaching and pretty much by my schedule, or the club schedule, What would be the relationship if you are being PAID by the student ? Does this now empower the student to make more demands on the instructor? Should we consider this more like Education or a Service ? I wonder what kind of attitudes we would have to deal with from the "Have it Now" crowd ? I guess sense our club does require membership to both AMA and the Club for a total cost of about $103 to receive instruction from the club we are in fact charging a fee, and it seems to be O.K. By the way our program also includes some "How To" classes before the club meetings. But all our instructors are volunteers , and we can and do provide instruction on other days if arrangements are are made with one of the instructors.

I am like many folks that have a family and full time job, A home to take care of and a wife with a Honey Do list longer than a 1/4 scale B29 wing span. I find it much harder to volunteer to be an instructor these days and still find time to do my own modeling, In fact Its getting hard to make the meetings and trainer night because I work nights. I believe our clubs system works pretty well but I can certainly see where some clubs are not set up for this kind of thing and perhaps paid instructors could be the answer, Now , Where do we go from HERE ? What would the AMAs part be in this ? Later Guys

I had an interesting conversation with the guy that runs the training program at our club. This club has between 200 and 250 members, and a very popular (no extra charge) training program. What he said was that about 50 members each year are just from the training program, and pretty much stay for just one year, and another 50 come next year. Of the 50 newbies who start each year, just a few go on to become long-time members (or even regular fliers I guess).

My question for you old-timers: Has this changed over the years? 20 years ago, if you trained 50 people, would you get more or less than a hand-full of longtime members?

Although I have been in the Hobby for over 20 years, I am not sure if age 35 is an old timer, but I think we would have to look at it in a percentage base, out of 50 New Modelers that go the ARF way, I am going to guess that maybe 5% continue on after the first year or go onto more advance models. Of Those that invested the time to build and learn the craft, I would guess at least 50% would continue , but you probably would not find 50 people per year in one area to devote the time to build their first model at any generation. There are some that do both and learn to build and learn to fly on an ARF at the same time. Back when I was getting started and really not all that long ago there were probably just as many people interested in giving it a try , but because you had to build your own and devote some time not to mention the cost the number of people that actually try is lower, but the ones that did usually had a greater desirer for the hobby before even getting the TX in their hands. This is not to say there are not passionate hobbyist that don't build, there are many. I don't believe anyone is try to intentionally disrespect the new generation of the hobby, its just hard to describe the difference without making it look that way. As I have stated I am very grateful for the new generation, it has actually brought the price of things down from just 10 years ago, and brought forth a much better variety. It exposes the hobby to a greater number of people . But many of us would sure like to see more of them continue on .

Before ARF's were generally available, most folks purchased a kit. We lost a lot of potential flyer's who never completed the kit. When someone spent the hours necessary to build a plane, they usually were pretty well committed to continuing in the hobby. The major exception was youngsters. At some point, most of them discovered girls and left the hobby. Some returned after they started raising a family and had a career started, generally bringing a friend along. Just from hanging around hobby shops for a lot of years long ago, I would guess that about 2/3 of the kits purchased were never completed.

In the last few years when ARF's have been generally available, the AMA has had about a 25% turnover in the membership each year. No studies that I know of have been done by the AMA to determine why, but, I am guessing it is the advent of ARF's.

JR

DB: "Where do we go from HERE ? What would the AMAs part be in this ?"

Hopefully, AMA would simply revise the Insurance program to recognize and include Commercial Flight Instruction on a Chartered Club's facility. That is as far as the AMA needs to go.
Of course this insurance should be paid for by that commercial operation. As a WAG, I would suspect that perhaps a $300 for the Instructor and $200 total for a Charter Club that participates would be a fair start.
In areas where a number of clubs exist, those clubs that at first do not participate would be losing potential members to those clubs that do. Soon most would join the program.
All actual operations would be between the individual Club and its paid instructors. At a low rate of $300 to solo, a club could recapture its investment very quickly, say 30% to the Club and 70% for the Instructor. These figures are simply WAGs (wild a-- guesses) and would be as determined by individual clubs.


DB: "....in a percentage base, out of 50 New Modelers that go the ARF way, I am going to guess that maybe 5% continue on after the first year or go onto more advance models. Of Those that invested the time to build and learn the craft, I would guess at least 50% would continue , but you probably would not find 50 people per year in one area to devote the time to build their first model at any generation."

AGREED! I think the *stayers* of those that built the first model are probably even higher. I have been instructing since 1971 and was a hard-core competitor CL/FFer before that for 20 years.
Back in the '70s we had a waiting list for our 100 member limit club. (NW Chicago area) Very few left, and when they did, the vacancy was filled within hours. Our field consisted of only 4 acres on a farm, with no facilities, yet there was no shortage of prospects and very few ARFs.


JR's post #46 is also a very good insight. Everything he says pretty well fits with my experiences when I owned a Hobby Shop, Aero Sports, in Mt Prospect, IL. If all the kits that just I sold ever found their way to the flying field, there would have been no room. Actually same here with LHSs in this area, even the ARFs. No one can ever determine what happens to them. Those that built the kit and made it to the field were, as JR said, committed to the activity.

The only available ARFs back in the early '70s were the Lanier. The "Comet" was an accepted trainer albeit an advanced one as compared to today's trainers.
Hobby Shack began importing ARFs int CA. I bought from them at a 10% discount, sold them at a 20% margin, 10% over RCM advertised prices, yet I could not get enough from HS to supply the demand. Within a year Al's and Stanton's, the then Chicago BIG DOG HSs, were well into getting ARFs from HS and now the rest is history. (BTW, the Venture Hobby in Wheeling, IL was the benefactor from my closing the Aero Sports. USAFR and United AL took my time. I rather be a model flier than a seller.)

So now we have progressed to the ARFs as a way of life within the Sport. RC proficiency is way beyond the expectations of 30 years ago. It is time AMA moved back into being the Leader of model aviation and those of you that are motivated should lobby AMA to do so. Paid Instructors can well be the key to being the Leader in a contemporary society. Did you see any RC models on your local news this AM? Not here either, but the local GOLF events were mentioned. My letter is in a state of being drafted.

Unless you are the Lead Dog on the team, your view is always limited. AMA definitely needs a better view.

Many seem to think that it would too complicated for AMA to create such a policy, but if one looks at the hoops one much jump through to earn a turbine waiver, why not do the same with a pro instructor policy? Although I'm just a newbie to the whole thing, IMHO, it would seem that it would be win-win situation for everyone concerned.

After reading through the many posts, it appears that, logically, with the ever increasing world's population, the large open areas needed to fly RC planes is decreasing at a much too rapid pace. People have said that for our hobby to last down the road, I'm afaid that we don't have that much down the road time left. All it takes is one unfriendly neighbor to chase a club away, no matter how long their club has been using a field.

Could be that the only real solution would be for AMA to take a very serious, long hard study of the paid instruction policy. I'm sure those who have lost several flying sites will understand.

nascarjoe

Didn't SFA try to play nice and include AMA and IMAA flyers, in events, but AMA wouldn't sanction any event if SFA flyers were to participate?????


Other than dollars, what real interest does the insurance company have in our hobby?? :confused

I would be all for it but like before with SFA the AMA has everything so monopolized you could never enter any competitions etc with SFA they just didnt recognize it. Now if the AMA was fair they would state in their bylaws that as long as you are insured with an AMA approved insurance supplier that you cannot be turned away it would be a good thing. but based on past SFA experience the AMA wants their money so will not change anything in this sport to allow any competition of them because they know very well if someone comes along offering insurance 20 or 30 dollars cheaper than them that most people thats all they want is cheap insurance so they can fly anywhere any time and the AMA would lose a lot of its members to them.

If the AMA and all sanctioned events recognize the company without requireing AMA membership also I would def get it as i am sure a good chunk of AMA mebers also would, but unitl that happens i see it as doomed to fail.

Joe