I don't think Dave Brown has a firm grasp at reality. Most park flyer's sold at place's like Wal-mart and Radio Shacks do not express the need for coverage of any type, nor will they ever.
I have never seen anyone shunned from the flying field because they have one of these type's of airplanes. In one of his columns he make's this remark. As if he is coming across as the park flyer savior, when in fact he is stagnating the AMA. AMA membership has dropped more under his administration than at any time before. The bottom line is even if you fly park flyer's, you still need to know how to fly. And if you never have flown before and you get one of these "anyone can fly this plane out of the box" airplanes, you will most likely crash it any way.
Most people that buy these planes have no clue about clubs and the AMA. Of course there is not a lot of info available to the overall public about clubs and the AMA. The AMA spends millions of dollars advertising in it's perceived target market but not realizing the true target market. If they spent have as much on getting info out to the general public and flight instruction, the membership number's just might go up. I wonder how many Airhogs have been sold? Out of all those sold how many have learned about the AMA thru this? How many have actually learned to fly? How many said to themselves gee I am glad I didn't spend $300.00 on that nitro plane?
Happy landings,
The Doc

This is a post i can't believe has not gotten any traction. At the heart of this discussion is the future of model aviation and AMA's role in it.
40 years ago the landscape was dominated by free-flight and control-line. When the single channel pulse control r/c came out it was not taken seriously. Today r/c dominates the landscape. 20 yeards ago you started with a trainer and a four channel radio and in most cases had to build your kit to fly. Today arfs and electrics have replaced the kitbuilder for entry level rc. I would say in our area more than 50% of new rc pilots are starting with electrics. These people really do not NEED an AMA club to get started as in the past.

In the past the AMA depended on the clubs to draw in new members to AMA as well as the growth of aviation. Not any more. Now it is the AMA that has to be pro-active in drawing new people to the clubs. The clubs used to be salesman for the AMA, now it is a role reversal. This requires a pro-active leadership at AMA, something it is sorely lacking today. IMHO.

When you buy a model rocket or replacement engines from wal-mart there is a copy of the NAR Model Rocket Safey Code and contact information inside the package. Not so with the several Aero Aces, Storm Launcher, or Havoc Heli I bought.
Is this a demonstration of a responsible manufacturer or an active sanctioning body? I don't know.

My take on Dave's comments was for us as AMA members to welcome these interested ones without making them feel like they have junk and encourage them to take the next steps into the more advanced forms of model aeronautics. That starts with the people at the field the day someone shows up, not someone in Muncie.
Should AMA try to get a blip in the package of Air Hogs and other similar products? Absolutely!

good post!

Well of course there is no responsibility of the manufacturer to do anything. Also consider that Airhogs is not Estes. Estes has been around for a long time now and has built a relationship over many years. Airhogs is a fast growing company that is based more or less of marketing machine then they deal with production. Aihogs basically produces nothing it's all made in multiple factories throughout China. Whereas Estes started all production in America as a complete different business model.

Now I believe it's in the best interest of Airhogs to make relationships, but it's up to them, not the AMA. Afterall informing people to "believe" you must belong to some kind of or any kind of organization may reduce sales. Of course this is speculative, but there is no speculation to the customer if there is no information in the box to create the speculation in the first place. So in that terms Airhogs has to act on behalf of themselves and that's just the way it is. Right now Airhogs is literally on fire, they are huge. In 2 years they've gone from nothing to being larger then Tower Hobbies in revenues and I certainly respect them for that.

Now as far as the AMA spending money in advertising outside of the org, you have no idea. The AMA does not have that kind of revenues. Think about how much you see EAA information out there and they are 10x larger then the AMA. It's not cheap to market to general public, it's millions to capture a niche market, real expensive. A lot more then what the AMA "loses" in MA, a whole lot more.

So you are saying to get involved with another non-profit like BSA would be illogical? To develop the relationship with companies like Estes, Cobra, and Aerotech is beyond the ability of AMA but fully within the reach of NAR??

I respectfully dis-agree.

This is not the goal of this well thought thread. I notice that no comments are made about making the kid who shows up with an Aero Ace feel good about his entry into model aeronautics. That was what I understood the editorial to be about.

I also like to add that the only way the AMA will ever capture the Airhogs audience is to sell them a specialty product at a specialty price. They will NEVER capture an Airhogs customer at $58 even if they did know about the AMA. Heck they can hardly hold onto glow customers. The perceived value is WAY too high in retrospect. Now if they were to grab them at $20 or $25, they would at least get them in the door and then upsell them to a new sector of the hobby which includes everything you are asking for. It's better to have them at a reduced price than nothing at all. Now this is where the anti e-ticket revolutioists tend to disagree, but it couldn't be any more obvious, otherwise you wouldn't have made this most obvious comment.

Think about it, what's the difference if the AMA spends millions of dollars trying capture an audience in mass media marketing, or perhaps losing or perhaps making money on a reduced program aimed just for them. The name of the game is to just make things happen and obviously Airhogs knows how to put ideas into action. If we only had a few women in this hobby things would get done, which I believe is one of the biggest problems, not enough women in this hobby. Oh and too many Texans, way too many Texans.

You are missing my point.
Estes has NAR all over the packaging and pamphlets inside the package and cost $62 for an over 21 adult to join. Pattern/benchmark from that organization is my point.

Oh yea and back to topic. Be nice and helpfull to the kid who shows up with the airhog. That's what the high powered rocket guys do when you come to their meets with a wal-mart kit. He gets to launch right next to the big guys.[sm=thumbup.gif]

FWIW I have launched 100s of rockets but am not a member of NAR and am a member of my club due to the way they treated my son and I when we showed up.

"one of the biggest problems, not enough women in this hobby. Oh and too many Texans, way too many Texans. "

Well, we tried to take our republic & leave right after we joined,
cause we found out the truth about what yall are really like,
but some beard&mole fool yankee sent the bluebellies after us in the War of Northern Aggression.

Airhogs and Estes are going after 2 different people. Airhogs will go after anyone with a credit card or cash. Estes targets hobbyists and trying to keep their clients for life. Their marketing technique are much different. Airhogs has something to lose by scaring customers into thinking they may or may not have to join a club or get some kind of insurance. Afterall most of their products are for indoor use and don't contain explosives.

Hey I'm only trying to show you the reality of things. I believe that Airhogs has no reason and never will add AMA literature to their products, ever. Because whatever marketing tactics Airhogs are using, they are doing it the right way. They are trying to get it while they can. The AMA needs to sew it's own hole.

Wrong. All the airhog products I have mentioned have Lipo batteries and the instruction sheets in the package contain the appropriate warning.

There is not a message to join NAR, simply the safety code and contact info...how hard is that to include?

If Texas is so bad, how come all you D**n YANKEES are moving here in record numbers????

Don't like Texas?? Take I-35 NORTH!![>:]

If all of us would get off our butts an send wally world some letters telling them to include a ama sheet with each plane they sell it might make a difference.

But, I guess we can sit here an not do nothing about it but gripe also.

Think I'll try the first idea this weekend.

Ronnie

So many very good points have been made here I don't know where to start. I am glad this topic drew attention and reaction because we flyer's need to express our opinion and not just with a split S. This is the future of what we do. Kids are the future of all that will be, no matter what it is.
The one point I am trying to make is the new person needs instruction no matter what it is they want to fly. Some people may not agree but that's OK. If the new person is successful the natural progress is to nitro or high end electric. As part owner of a hobby shop I can tell you first hand we don't sell much in the way of electric. The cost for a nice flying 40 size electric cost's much more than nitro. Since we have a lot of birds flying around saying cheap, cheap, cheap nitro is the way most go. We only sell aero-modeling products and we do very well.
Another point is, AMA does already spend millions of dollars in advertising. The cost of putting out a magazine alone is in the millions but who are the one's that get this magazine exclusively? Just AMA member's. Has anyone seen this magazine at your local news stand? I haven't but that doesn't mean it's not out there, I just haven't seen it. Remember a couple of years ago AMA sent out a bunch of DVD's? I wonder what that cost to do that? I also wonder whatever happened to that? All that being said, all these effort's and dollars are being spend on those of us that already fly. What about those that don't? There not even being contemplated for what could be a target market. You would be surprised at what the target market could be. I have found that everyone that passes by and those that stop in are the target market. I Do this daily. There are many way's for the AMA to get free advertisement as a non for profit organization. AMA clubs in every area can do this. I did this for our club and we have been on the radio, newspaper and TV and we did this for free. We sent Dave Mathewson a copy of the television show we did so he could see how this can be done for free. It just takes a little initiative that the AMA district associate vice presidents are not doing. There is a ball being dropped somewhere and I believe it starts with the AMA. Promotion can be a lovely thing especially when it's free. But as AMA say's, we are all the AMA so take that as you may.
Instructor's are the key to this whole situation. We get people flying successfully, that have never flown before in an extremely short period of time and we don't sell them parts for there broken plane, we sell them there next plane in about a month because the want to upgrade from there trainer that they fly around successfully and is not smashed, not smashed!!! We have them hooked for life from there. And we do this daily. We don't charge them for lesson's but those that don't have the time to come out on beginner night and wait in line are more than happy to pay. So yes we do charge but yes we do teach for free. Needless to say we had to extend training night from once a week to twice a week and we are jammed pack each night.
As far as Texas is concerned, I heard God lives in Texas, lol. Remember we may be D... Yankee's but you are North of South America. I have been to Texas it is a very nice place to visit. The only bad thing I can think of about Texas is G.W.B. This d... Yankee will never move from the Big Apple. I don't want to be anywhere else. Some of my friends are from Texas. They moved up here permanently. Hmm go figure. But as they have told me since I drive a big V-8 Camaro when gas is almost $3.00 a gallon and I live in a rural area and listen to Johnny Cash, I might be a redneck.

Happy landing,
The Doc.

Hey!!!! I'm a Split S !!!!!!! ?????????

Wrong? Guess you've never seen an Airhogs commercial? They are targeting 2 people. Kids and people to fly products indoors, that's their target audience. You are trying to look at their products from the eyes of the "hobbyist", which they could care less about. They will take you as a one time sale or a life sale, they don't care, they are in the business of selling a product, not a hobby.

Any like I said, if I were the boss at Airhogs I wouldn't ever consider partnering with the AMA. One they are on the steep incline. Whereas the AMA is on the decline. What's that say alone. Two, Airhogs products DO NOT require a membership of any kind and could hurt sales. I mean you can't even get AMA info in most glow products and you'll never see them in Airhogs products, ever. Don't think of Airhogs as an "RC" product, because they certainly don't. They are toys and they are purely interested in profits only, god bless them.

Well here we go again, everybody is wrong, Dion is the only person that knows anything. [:'(] Good grief Dion where did the idea that putting a small slip of paper extolling the AMA would mean you had to join in order to fly an air hogs product. You dont have to join to fly any type of model plane. Nor do you have to join NAR in order to launch an estes rocket, I think what folks are saying is it might benifit the AMA to approach Air Hogs to see about including some info about AMA for people to see, maybe just maybe some of the folks that purchase their products would continue in the hobby and actually become AMA members. Dr.BS made a very thoughtfull post and pretty well summed up the entire issue. Least wise till he started with the Texas comment's.[>:] But thats alright Doc you sound like 1 d__n yankee that actually does know what he's talking about. American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of God!!!!!!! Lee

Well let's just see if they can achieve it first. I'm guessing not in the near future. At the very least until sales decline. And this is my opinion there Tex, I don't need to be told I'm wrong there my friend.

Way too many Texans.

Why would AIR HOGS want to promote their competition? Might as well tell the BB gun company to promote the NRA.

"Afterall most of their products are for indoor use and don't contain explosives. "

Wrong. All the airhog products I have mentioned have Lipo batteries

"Wrong? Guess you've never seen an Airhogs commercial?"


ok, we play this game again...
so due to a comercial they dont have LiPo?
LipPo is not explosive but methanol/NiCadNimh/rubber is?
What are you syaing that you are not wrong about the no explosives

How is the statement that they dont contain explosives , not wrong?
Or is that just pointing out that they are not laiden with C4 or Win231
.... just like methanol/4lbSparkies are not.

I just dont get the explosives bit, unless you are either saying LiPo doesnt explode but nitro does.... or you were wrong as pointed out by Vic.

Sorry split S, I meant the aerial maneuver not you. Nothing personal, lol. Just so long as we don't have to re-live a war over 150 years ago. Sherman had the right way to handle those brother sister packen folks and he did, lol.

Happy landings,
The Doc

No more muddy pig wrestling for me, the pig (not CP) are enjoying it too much.

I will be content with contacting my VP and being kind to the kid or newcomer that come to my field.

Points were made and ignored, literate, sober people understood and the rest argue with anything that puts a positive path forward. Typical deviation from original post of most topics that involve AMA.

That's one of the many reasons we love you so much Dion.

Unfortunatly things have changed,

Its "used to be" you were only able to
get into RC by going to your local hobby shop, as they were the only ones carrying RC models or equipment
and thats no longer the case.

There the "modeler" were inducted into what it took to be an RC pilot,

The plane, the engine, the radio, covering, fuel proofing...etc....

Joining a Club , getting help, Joining AMA to have insurance. and so on.

most of that is all gone now.

walmart... k mart...Rc is everywhere, and sold everywhere,
but not the Knowledge that comes with being A "modeler".

we have to "grab" them and teach'm right,
and unteaching things they learned and don't understand is not easy.

Why would I belong to a club which averages 50 year old men for love? I'm not here for love, that's a different hobby.

I like the bb gun to nra analogy, sounds right.